Al leaders made esentially the same decision at Broken Shore.

[Theoris]

The Alliance wouldn't have left Sylvanas&co without a warning.

The horn sounding the retreat wasn't warning enough?

[steelballfc]

Well, you just proved that you are either a Sylvannas fan boy or just "popping your faction biner".

You argue that the Horde doesn't need to hel their enemies ( that's right you even call the Alliance enemies) while indicating that the Horde somehow had rely on the alliance for intel.

And don't blame Varian for not letting Thrall kill Garrosh since Varian merely wanted to kill him himself. Blame the pandas for wanting a trial.

And how is Khadgar now an Alliance member? He fought on your side as much as on the alliances side.

- I didn't say Khadgar is an alliance member, I said it's his fault we are in this mess, and no body holding him any responsibility - also technically he is a human so if for example the Horde start attacking SW he will defend his home land - .
- yes I'm a Horde fan, but not Sylvanas fan by all means
- well the Horde and Alliance are enemies, the fact that both faction " for some reason " didn't cordnate the attack - which is part why this is a disaster attack - prove that they are still enemies.

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Really, no sarcasm here: Thanks for the money. I do love it when people get so triggered by an opinion they disagree with that they bring it up out of nowhere to get mad about. Its a truly great feeling in life. Its how I know I've won. Thank you, really.

the fact is whenever I try to argue or enter a discussion about my faction "horde" the other side accuse me for being an Sylvanas bitch, or as you say it Sylvanas Defense Force - or something-.
the fact is some Alliance fans accuse horde fans " and verse " for something they can do nothing about it.
Note : this is not specifically for you KrazyK923, I'm talking out loud with you.

[Tenjen]

the entire thing was a trap. Horde were handling the majority of the demon army with more pouring in through portals AND the legion ships firing down on them.

Both sides had been informed of an initial invasion force, not an entire established legion army/HQ with insta summoning of buildings and demons right on their asses with large portals already set up so even more demons pour in from behind too.

Alliance took too much time trying to reach guldan through the lines he kept summoning, until he summoned dozens of legion leaders. The trap was sprung at that point. Varian and his buddy were kidding themselves about "victory is near" at that point.

had sylvanas not sounded the retreat, the horde would have been wiped out by the infinite army pouring in while the alliance tried to fight dozens of raid bosses at once.

Then the Alliance would have been caught unawares between space ships, the portal demons and the raid bosses. There would have been no time to retreat by then, they would have been over run.

Bang, most of the heroes of azeroth (us) dead, many of its faction leaders dead. The factions were already previously infiltrated and will be brought down from within. Illidari get a nice last stand until a newly born Fel Titan farts in their general direction. Sarg and Lady Titan skip into the distance. Legion wins.

Instead sylvanas had the sense to see that the battle was lost. Even if they had held against the larger demon army coming in from the distance, the Alliance would have failed as Guldan summoned the fel reaver, then more demons, then more bosses.

The entire thing was a setup by the Legion. Sylvanas is the only reason it wasn't a complete victory for the legion.

Long term Alliance player here. most of the arguements here are either petty, blowhard or plain out ignore the situation as a whole.

[Deleted]

The horn sounding the retreat wasn't warning enough?

That was as much a warning as the felfire attacks from that cliff a second later would have been a warning.

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...

Like I said before, they should have made for an organized retreat instead of what actually happened.

[Arrashi]

Are alliance fans being mad at horde characters even worth taking about anymore ? I mean they were "hurr durrr solvunus evul hurr durr for eht alience hurr durr sylvanas raid boss" for......8 years now ? They really wouldnt make it as stand up comedians with material as stale as it.

[Theoris]

The horn was to call down her Valk, correct? Hardly a retreat, she could've just called upon them for reinforcements(Surprised she would even risk them getting harmed)

....Did you miss the part where the Horde forces were getting trampled by the Legion and that the val'kyr carried them away from the battle? It was clearly a retreat.

But no, she did just leave them there. Unintentionally or not

The Alliance are big boys, Sylvanas doesn't need to babysit them. They had a gunship - they had the retreat under control until Gul'dan called down the Fel Reaver.

That was as much a warning as the felfire attacks from that cliff a second later would have been a warning.

I refer you to my earlier point.

[Mehrunes]

Varian died heroically to save the rest of his gang. Horde on the other hand just pussied out collectively. That's the difference. Yeah Lok'tar ogar, victory or death motherfuckers!

Except before Varian could die heroically the Alliance had to "pussy out collectively", on Varian's orders no less, because Varian's death was him covering their escape. Because the Alliance can't even do that properly. With air evac. Also, Sylvanas not being an Orc aside, the idea that lok'tar ogar means the Horde just commits suicide attacks deliberately and doesn't know the concept of retreat is outright idiotic.

[purebalance]

Holding the fort like Gallywix and Lorthermar, because—I imagine—the Legion wouldn't stop invading Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms

This was the start. The portal LITERALLY just opened from the audio thing they had released in 4 chapters. There are no other invasion points yet.

[steelballfc]

That's obviously not what I'm talking about. Trampled or not, they gave no proper warning that they were leaving. As Genn and Varians reactions prove it

they know they were retreating, they didn't know why the Horde retreaded.

[Stormdash]

Offtopic : people here actually punish Horde player/fans for something they didn't create/write, so much hate !

on topic : if Varian didn't stop thrall at SoO he would live to fight the Horde as much as you like, and if you disagree with that, I'm agreeing with Maive that all "Legion" fault is on Khadgar, I use the same reasons she mentioned in the Audio Drama.

Actually it's Wrathion's fault.

Wrathion's the one who hatched the scheme with Kairoz to spring Garrosh and send him to AU Draenor. Everything that brought the Legion to our doorstep here and now came out of that. Irony, given Wrathion's constant swanning about of how nothing matters more than stopping the Legion -- his hubris, and his excess, in that goal brought them down on us.

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Retreating was the right choice but in situations like that you back out as a team. Horde left and didn't coordinate a retreat with the Alliance. The failure in leadership started with the Horde. In fact, they probably stayed in TOO long.

About coordinating -- what would sounding the horn and then sending a courier riding around to get down the ridge or just jumping off the cliff to tell the Alliance about the retreat have told them that the horn didn't already tell them, only later?

[Heltoray]

Lol this topic is borderline cringeworthy. You all take this so seriously, Blizzard has you by the balls.

Thank you!
That's what I think every time I see people getting all loaded up over this sort of bullshit

[ManiaCCC]

The horn was to call down her Valk, correct? Hardly a retreat, she could've just called upon them for reinforcements(Surprised she would even risk them getting harmed) But no, she did just leave them there. Unintentionally or not

look, arguing about script written by someone else is really stupid. It is not like horde players could do anything about it, but seriously, can you somehow imagine way(which make any sort of sense), how in this situation could horde leaders make it clear to alliance they are leaving? Should Thrall, jump from the cliff and run to Varian and shout "Get the fuck out of here, we are overrun"..or what?

Horde got the worse end of the whole situation, warchief almost dead, all other leaders out of the combat, line broken, bombarded by spaceships, is there any logical way how else they could handle that?

[Tenjen]

That was as much a warning as the felfire attacks from that cliff a second later would have been a warning.

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Like I said before, they should have made for an organized retreat instead of what actually happened.

not in the cards. They had no idea they would be facing the situation they did because of bad information. Whatever plans they made before was thrown to the wind by the situation and them adjusting to it on the fly.

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The horn was to call down her Valk, correct? Hardly a retreat, she could've just called upon them for reinforcements(Surprised she would even risk them getting harmed) But no, she did just leave them there. Unintentionally or not

Err she called them down to help the retreat. its RIGHT there in the video. The alliance even heard it and realized it was a retreat.

[The One Percent]

People take the lore in Warcraft seriously still? lol.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Anyone criticizing the Horde's withdrawal is not being objective. Essentially all the leaders made the same decision: they retreated when their position became impossible and staying would mean annihilation. This happened for the Horde moments before it happened for the Alliance, but it happened to both and all leaders responded similarly.

The demons in front of Gul'dan were a distraction, a holding action. The real mass was coming from our flank. If you actually played both sides, instead of just watching the cinematics, you know there were 10x, maybe 100x as many demons on our flank. My Tauren Bear was doing 124k dps with un-buffed thrash and swipe. I did nothing that dramatic in front of Gul'dan. They weren't in neat rows, they were just so many you couldn't count them, so many your screen became a green blur with red damage numbers swimming across it.

The Horde retreated with Thrall unconscious, Vol'jin mortally wounded, and a crushing weight of demons.

The Alliance saw that same mass of demons on their flank and ordered the retreat as well. Varian would have left with his troops to fight another day (like Baine and Sylvannas), but had to sacrifice himself (heroically!) when the Fel Reaver grabbed the ship.

It makes perfect sense to role play as if your character doesn't get this, if you're into role play, and especially if you're playing Alliance.

But any player who doesn't get it is not thinking it through.

Sylvanas could've warned varyan that they were being overrun and he had to skiddaddle.

[Deleted]

Did those horn signs usually mean: "Turn tail and run with no regard"?

Yes, they did.

From Vegetius:

"The music of the legion consists of trumpets, cornets and buccinae. The trumpet sounds the charge and the retreat. The cornets are used only to regulate the motions of the colors; the trumpets serve when the soldiers are ordered out to any work without the colors; but in time of action, the trumpets and cornets sound together. The classicum, which is a particular sound of the buccina or horn, is appropriated to the commander-in-chief and is used in the presence of the general, or at the execution of a soldier, as a mark of its being done by his authority. The ordinary guards and outposts are always mounted and relieved by the sound of trumpet, which also directs the motions of the soldiers on working parties and on field days. The cornets sound whenever the colors are to be struck or planted. These rules must be punctually observed in all exercises and reviews so that the soldiers may be ready to obey them in action without hesitation according to the general's orders either to charge or halt, to pursue the enemy or to retire. For reason will convince us that what is necessary to be performed in the heat of action should constantly be practiced in the leisure of peace."


The quantity of armchair generals and field commanders in this thread is outstanding...

[Shibito]

Varian died heroically to save the rest of his gang. Horde on the other hand just pussied out collectively. That's the difference. Yeah Lok'tar ogar, victory or death motherfuckers!

So heroically he got blown apart hihi

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Sylvanas could've warned varyan that they were being overrun and he had to skiddaddle.

Yes that HORN SOUNDING didnt give it away guess varians hearing is bad

[Aucald]

Sylvanas could've warned varyan that they were being overrun and he had to skiddaddle.

I think the reaction of Genn and Varian at the sound of Sylvanas' horn betrays that they also knew what it meant, regardless of their reactions towards it. Neither of them knew the Horde's plight or condition (Baine and Thrall out of the fight, Vol'jin mortally wounded, and being fired upon by three of the Legion dreadnoughts) - Genn and Jaina immediately jumped on the "betrayal" angle whereas Varian just looked pissed that he had to call a retreat himself.

In the end the Broken Shore was a trap on the part of the Legion, and it did its job with almost perfect precision. Destroy the main spear of the Horde and Alliance war effort by decimating its leaders and elite infantry, and as a bonus set the Horde and Alliance against one another by engineering a rout on one side forcing a call for retreat and/or crumbling the flank and allowing the center force to be overrun. The Legion *wants* the remaining Horde and Alliance at each other's throats because they knew a combined push by a unified Azeroth is the only thing that can stop them (as it did in the Third War). Falling to partisan bickering is exactly what the Legion wants, and unfortunately it is exactly what they're getting.

[Highwhale]

die or live

I just remembered Keeshan's cosmetic item - Die for something or live for nothing! Varian made his choice when Fel Reaver grabbed airship. So did Sylvanas when Vol'jin got rekted.

PS Horde players you are bad. Just accept what your faction was weak and run like cowards.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I just remembered Keeshan's cosmetic item - Die for something or live for nothing! Varian made his choice when Fel Reaver grabbed airship. So did Sylvanas when Vol'jin got rekted.

PS Horde players you are bad. Just accept what your faction was weak and run like cowards.

Getting called bad by someone who makes fun of peoples disabilities, how will I sleep at night?

Aside from that, as another said, the amount of armchair generals is astounding.

The quote you used doesn't work in this situation, dying at the broken shore would have been for nothing.