Unholy and frost comparisons?

[Deleted]

Hi, a simple question. As someone who doesn't plan on playing mythic raiding or cutting edge. I just plan on heroic raiding and mythic+ dungeons and random battlegrounds. How much am I gimping myself for the whole expansion by playing frost over unholy as a second nary spec to blood??

I've heard that unholy just does everything frost does but better, to what extreme is this?

[RuneDK]

if you're not cutting edge raiding play what you enjoy...end of story.

[FluFF]

To the extreme where it only matters in pushing mythic raid kills, just like with every other spec that is supposed to ''suck'' compared to a 2nd spec from the same class.
If you do what you do you are fine by playing Frost.

[Shibito]

Unholy, why? APOCALYYYYYYYYYYYYYYPSE!

[Piz813]

if you're not cutting edge raiding play what you enjoy...end of story.

This quote should be a sticky :-)
Sums it all up. Personally I like frost in mythics. I feel trash dies faster with frost scythe and it's a timed event so more seconds on bosses or minutes. It's all up to YOU. Same for the race you pick. I also feel troll is better cause berserking is 3 min haste and used with arbiter for up to 12 death coils. Belf is just 20 runic power.. Will h is what, one death coil every 1.5 minutes?? Meh.

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Oh btw there is a BiS list out and stat weights as of this morning. UH is above frost in MYTHIC RAIDING GEAR by 30k and the BiS trinkets are all the stat sticks. Save your gold for a DMC Trinket and forget the dalaran ring imo

[PeopleReady]

Hi, a simple question. As someone who doesn't plan on playing mythic raiding or cutting edge. I just plan on heroic raiding and mythic+ dungeons and random battlegrounds. How much am I gimping myself for the whole expansion by playing frost over unholy as a second nary spec to blood??

I've heard that unholy just does everything frost does but better, to what extreme is this?

As long as you don't care about doing as much damage as possible and your guild is understanding of that

[FluFF]

As long as you don't care about doing as much damage as possible and your guild is understanding of that

People in normal/hc guilds don't care about that in the first place or they would be pushing mythics, I don't think you need to say '' I'm sorry but I'm playing spec x '' in a normal/hc guild as long as you are not 50 feet below tanks on dps with your spec.

[Nisth]

Oh btw there is a BiS list out and stat weights as of this morning. UH is above frost in MYTHIC RAIDING GEAR by 30k and the BiS trinkets are all the stat sticks. Save your gold for a DMC Trinket and forget the dalaran ring imo

Can you provide a link to this?

[PeopleReady]

People in normal/hc guilds don't care about that in the first place or they would be pushing mythics, I don't think you need to say '' I'm sorry but I'm playing spec x '' in a normal/hc guild as long as you are not 50 feet below tanks on dps with your spec.

If you say so. I would not know the culture.

[Piz813]

Can you provide a link to this?

Sure give me a minn. I'll make a post. Just the guy who made it went to bed and the haste column is wrong so it needs to be fixed. And there is like zero gear with crit... so castagator spec might have some trouble..

[Dracovian]

Hi, a simple question. As someone who doesn't plan on playing mythic raiding or cutting edge. I just plan on heroic raiding and mythic+ dungeons and random battlegrounds. How much am I gimping myself for the whole expansion by playing frost over unholy as a second nary spec to blood??

I've heard that unholy just does everything frost does but better, to what extreme is this?

Go Unholy. They have a higher floor and a much higher ceiling. They can excel at pretty much any situation the game throws at them. Frost plays very well mechanically but the numbers, utility and mobility aren't there. You can maybe wait until Tuesday and hope for some last minute buffs but UH is the safe bet.

[Deleted]

This quote should be a sticky :-)
Sums it all up. Personally I like frost in mythics. I feel trash dies faster with frost scythe and it's a timed event so more seconds on bosses or minutes. It's all up to YOU. Same for the race you pick. I also feel troll is better cause berserking is 3 min haste and used with arbiter for up to 12 death coils. Belf is just 20 runic power.. Will h is what, one death coil every 1.5 minutes?? Meh.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh btw there is a BiS list out and stat weights as of this morning. UH is above frost in MYTHIC RAIDING GEAR by 30k and the BiS trinkets are all the stat sticks. Save your gold for a DMC Trinket and forget the dalaran ring imo

a cheap jc ring is better then the dalaran ring due socket on jc ring, so dont get why anyone would buy it.

[RuneDK]

As long as you don't care about doing as much damage as possible and your guild is understanding of that

I honestly hate this mentality....People play the spec they enjoy better than the one they don't regardless of how high the ceiling is. Player x plays frost at 200k dps but unholy he taps out as best as he can at 175k....would you rather take a 200k dps or a 175k dps? This isn't an argument for the cutting edge guilds. This player wouldn't even make it out of trial. This is for the shitbum try hard guilds who think they're better than they are.

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Go Unholy. They have a higher floor and a much higher ceiling. They can excel at pretty much any situation the game throws at them. Frost plays very well mechanically but the numbers, utility and mobility aren't there. You can maybe wait until Tuesday and hope for some last minute buffs but UH is the safe bet.

Seeing as raids don't come out until the end of September...I think you have until the raid to really figure it out or "hope" for some buffs.

[Dracovian]

Seeing as raids don't come out until the end of September...I think you have until the raid to really figure it out or "hope" for some buffs.

The AP investment is an issue though.

[Tock20]

The AP investment is an issue though.

Not really actually. You'll barely be behind if you level them together. (Granted, in this case he does want blood as 2nd spec. I wonder how long it would take to do the 3rd artifact)

[Freedom]

According to some preliminary sims, it's a 13% difference, without raid trinkets(see Trinkets tab):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=166430616

If it were, say, a 2%, 5%, even 7% difference in damage, I wouldn't give a shit. But this is just too much a gap.

Even if I CAN play Frost in my current guild, I'm not sure if I want to so badly that I'm doing 13% less damage, and have less survivability. And I need my OS to be Blood, as I may be tanking at some points. UH's better in PVP too from what I've seen. I think the only thing holding me back at this point is dual wielding, and all those sweet 1 hand weapons I have, TBH. But I can always just fuck around with mog without spending AP on a low spec that's also not best for PVP.

At the very least, I'll be holding off on spending AP on Frost for a while. Or say if I ever get beat by the UH DK in my guild I'm switching.

[Gemini Soul]

Not really actually. You'll barely be behind if you level them together. (Granted, in this case he does want blood as 2nd spec. I wonder how long it would take to do the 3rd artifact)

That graph only illustrates the gains from things like World quests, weekly quests, daily random rewards. It does not include treasures, order hall missions, and the random ArtPow drops from things you kill.

The AP investment is an issue because of very low AK when raids first open and lack of gear, especially if you plan to go into raids that first week.

- - - Updated - - -

According to some preliminary sims, it's a 13% difference, without raid trinkets(see Trinkets tab):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=166430616

If it were, say, a 2%, 5%, even 7% difference in damage, I wouldn't give a shit. But this is just too much a gap.

Even if I CAN play Frost in my current guild, I'm not sure if I want to so badly that I'm doing 13% less damage, and have less survivability. And I need my OS to be Blood, as I may be tanking at some points. UH's better in PVP too from what I've seen. I think the only thing holding me back at this point is dual wielding, and all those sweet 1 hand weapons I have, TBH. But I can always just fuck around with mog without spending AP on a low spec that's also not best for PVP.

At the very least, I'll be holding off on spending AP on Frost for a while. Or say if I ever get beat by the UH DK in my guild I'm switching.

They really messed up BAD on Frost and Unholy! Because Unholy is over all better with its Utility, mobility, survivability, and damage options ST/Clumped/spread AoE Frost should techincally be doing more DPS than Unholy. Which would make the specs... Frost:More DPS but Less Fluff vs Unholy:Less DPS but More Fluff, instead of the crap hole place it is now of Frost:Low DPS and Low Fluff vs Unholy:More DPS and More Fluff.

[Piz813]

a cheap jc ring is better then the dalaran ring due socket on jc ring, so dont get why anyone would buy it.

You can use that dalaran ring at level 101. So 700 crit and 1000 mastery to help level. If those values were swapped around, it be great. You won't get a 850+ ring till mythics or you get real lucky on normal/heroic mode drops. Heelsvsbabyface made a video just on the ring. I replaced mine on beta very fast..

[Deleted]

You can use that dalaran ring at level 101. So 700 crit and 1000 mastery to help level. If those values were swapped around, it be great. You won't get a 850+ ring till mythics or you get real lucky on normal/heroic mode drops. Heelsvsbabyface made a video just on the ring. I replaced mine on beta very fast..

still that gold is better saved fro 110 stuff instead of lvling if still was 865 or had better stats i mightve considered it

[Jackkernaut]

Blizzard claims there's gonna be a mechanic to reduce the research time of artifacts regardless.
Probably when "world first" shenanigans going to dwindle.