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    High Overlord Metuere's Avatar
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    How do Feral (A Guide)

    Given that I keep seeing people saying feral is terrible at the moment, I figured I'd write a bit of a guide based on how I play the spec to try and help out a little in showing that it's rather the opposite, and to help new people interested in the spec a little in learning the nuts and bolts of it. Keeping in mind that I'm not a mythic raider, though that is out of choice, as I just don't feel like dealing with the stress of that environment. I have been playing feral since Wrath though.

    Talents
    Level 15

    Personally, my choice in this row is Blood Scent. This is because any extra % crit is more chances to generate 2 combo points through Primal Fury.

    While Predator is definitely good for soloing and outdoor content where the mobs will be dying rather quick, in a raid situation it's just not a good choice.

    Lunar inspiration CAN be a good choice, particularly with the T19 set bonus, but requires specific talents later on to make it viable based on energy costs/regens.

    Level 30

    This row doesn't particularly matter, I just use Displacer Beast because it's a nice ability to quickly get out of stuff that's killing me.

    Level 45

    This row depends on whether you're soloing or in a raid honestly. Restoration affinity is a strong solo talent, because of the strong heals, but in a raid situation where you have plenty of outside healing on you, Guardian Affinity is going to be the best choice, because of survivability. The less damage you're taking, the less heals you're going to need. You also get a pretty regular heal from using Healing Touch.

    Level 60

    Again, it just depends on the situation, but in most cases I use Mighty Bash here.

    Level 75-90

    Alright, here is where it gets interesting.

    Soul of the Forest is pretty trash, so your choices here on the first row narrow down to Incarnation, and Savage Roar. Which one you choose here will affect which talent you choose in the last 2 rows, because while you may just see "This talent increases your damage by x%", it's not always the best choice. It's about synergy between the talents.

    One of the biggest problems I'm seeing is people being energy starved, and saying that they are taking Savage Roar, Jagged Wounds, and Blood Talons. This right here is an example of terrible synergy between talents. Yes, they all increase your dps by x%, so they do seem like the best talents to take, right? The problem here is exactly as people say, they're energy starved. Since they are using 80% of their energy on Savage Roar and reapplying their bleeds so much more, they have no energy left over to deal any other damage. So, the solution here is to look at your talents and find combinations that work well together. I'm going to put a few suggestions for combinations below.

    Incarnation - Jagged Wounds - Blood Talons

    This personally is the combination that I use. It all works well together, and without Savage Roar, it leaves me enough energy to slip in Ferocious Bites as needed, which yeah, I know FB doesn't deal alot of damage right now, but it is instant damage and gives me the instant heal to proc Blood Talons, so it's better than reapplying Rip (I'll explain more on this specifically later)

    Savage Roar - Sabertooth - Blood Talons

    If you really have to take Savage Roar and Blood Talons, this is a very good build for you, as it gives you 30 more energy to play with each rotation, since after you have your highest ratio Rip applied, you don't have to cast it on that target ever again.

    Lunar Inspiration - Incarnation - Sabertooth - Blood Talons

    As I said earlier, Lunar Inspiration works well with the T19 set bonus, as it adds an extra bleed to your target, which is an 8% damage increase. Though if you want to go this way, it's best to avoid Savage Roar, as again, it will leave you heavily energy starved. Incarnation helps to curve off this problem, because of the reduced energy costs of everything. On top of that, Sabertooth also free's up energy for you to use Thrash.

    --

    Of course, it's up to you what talents you use, but just remember to think about how they work together, and try them out.

    The Nuts and Bolts

    Feral on the surface seems like a very complex spec to play, which scares a lot of people off from it. While it is in a way, it can be made relatively simple once you understand how the spec works. I'll include the weakauras I use at the end of this guide (A semi custom setup, I mixed a few I've found and added some useful things)

    Snapshotting Bleeds

    While most classes lost their snapshotting mechanic, feral retained theirs to a point. While bonuses such as agility potions don't work for snapshotting anymore, your Tiger's Fury, Blood Talons and Savage Roar (if you take the talent) do.
    Basically the idea of snapshotting your bleeds is that you want to have as many of those 2-3 buffs active as possible when you apply a bleed, you don't want to reapply it if it is still active, and you are missing a buff you had the first time. For example, you apply rip with all 3 active, you wouldn't want to reapply it if it wasn't within the pandemic threshold (explained in next section), and you only have 2 of those buffs active. Doing this will maximise the duration of your bleeds on the target ticking for their highest possible damage.

    Included in my weakauras is an icon that will let you know when it is ideal to reapply your bleeds with this snapshotting.

    Pandemic

    This is a really cool mechanic that a few classes have with their DoT spells. Essentially the way it works is that the DoT has a time threshold on its duration that if it is reapplied during that time, the damage will carry over into the duration of the next DoT. To explain this, Rip has a pandemic threshold of 7 seconds, so if you were to reapply a Rip at anywhere from 7 to 1 seconds remaining, the initial Rip would still deal its damage for that many seconds into the duration of the second Rip. My Rip currently has a duration of 16.1 seconds, meaning if I was to reapply a Rip at the 7 seconds remaining, it would cause the second Rip to essentially deal double damage for the first 7 seconds of its duration. Rip, Rake and Thrash all use this mechanic.
    This also means that you do not want to reapply one of those bleeds prior to them entering that threshold, as doing so will negate the effect, and you will lose that amount of time worth of damage from the bleed.

    Energy Management

    This is a very important aspect of playing a feral druid. It is incredibly important to learn how to manage your energy consumption, as you need to be able to reapply your bleeds when necessary. Sometimes you're just going to have to sit and auto attack waiting for energy, and that's totally ok. All it takes is paying attention to your CDs, your bleeds on the enemy, your combo points, and how much energy things will take to cast what you need. It's a bit of thinking to do all at once, but it's definitely one of the most fun aspects of playing feral.

    Conclusion

    While I know this may not be a MLG pro guide on the spec, I hope it at least gives people a better understanding of how the class works, and helps newer people who are interested in it learn how to be a good kitty. All in all, thank you for reading my guide, and if there is anything you think I should add, just let me know.
    As I said, I will be including the WeakAuras I use, and will also include my Healing Touch macro, which is incredibly useful.

    HEALING TOUCH MACRO
    #showtooltip
    /run SetCVar ("autoUnshift",0)
    /use [@player,btn:2][@target,help,nodead][@targettarget,help,nodead][@focus,help,nodead][@player]Healing Touch
    /run SetCVar ("autoUnshift",1)
    WeakAuras String
    Code:
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    Last edited by Metuere; 2016-08-28 at 12:02 PM. Reason: Added image of weakaura

  2. #2
    I'm doing this from my cell but a few things i noticed right away and there is more i can see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metuere View Post
    Lunar inspiration CAN be a good choice, particularly with the T19 set bonus, but requires specific talents later on to make it viable based on energy costs/regens.
    Moonfire is cheaper than shred, gives 1 CP non-crit and gives 2 on crit, also makes a great way to add CP and not eat up a BT like shred could.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metuere View Post
    Lunar Inspiration works well with the T19 set bonus, as it adds an extra bleed to your target, which is an 8% damage increase.
    MF is a burn/spell DoT and not a bleed, so its not affected by mastery or 4pc
    Last edited by Gemini Soul; 2016-08-28 at 10:19 AM.

  3. #3
    High Overlord Metuere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini Soul View Post
    I'm doing this from my cell but a few things i noticed right away and there is more i can see.



    Moonfire is cheaper than shred, gives 1 CP non-crit and gives 2 on crit, also makes a great way to add CP and not eat up a BT like shred could.



    MF is a burn/spell DoT and not a bleed, so its not affected by mastery or 4pc
    While MF may be cheaper than shred, to use it optimally, you need to use it in addition to shred, and since Primal Fury can't proc from DoT spells, you'd end up with far less combo points over the duration if you didn't, yeah it's a good talent, but the extra 10% crit affects everything.
    Last edited by Metuere; 2016-08-28 at 10:43 AM.

  4. #4
    If you are taking jagged wounds it changes the refresh timings, Rip changes from 7sec down to 4.2 I think it is and the rake one changes by about 2sec too so you have to be careful to take that into consideration

  5. #5
    High Overlord Metuere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Páíns View Post
    If you are taking jagged wounds it changes the refresh timings, Rip changes from 7sec down to 4.2 I think it is and the rake one changes by about 2sec too so you have to be careful to take that into consideration
    If that's the case it shouldn't be too hard for me to just change the icon in the weakaura to reflect those times, if anyone can get me the exact times.

    Update--

    Just added a secondary refresh timer on the weakauras to load only when jagged wounds is taken, I'll change up the times when I know what they are, but for now I set Rip to 4.2 and rake to 4.5.
    Last edited by Metuere; 2016-08-28 at 11:56 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Metuere View Post
    If that's the case it shouldn't be too hard for me to just change the icon in the weakaura to reflect those times, if anyone can get me the exact times.

    Update--

    Just added a secondary refresh timer on the weakauras to load only when jagged wounds is taken, I'll change up the times when I know what they are, but for now I set Rip to 4.2 and rake to 4.5.

    I just checked there and the times without jagged wounds are 7.2sec for rip, 4.5 for rake and trash, 4.2 for moonfire

    With jagged wounds spec it's 4.8sec for rip, 3 sec for rake and trash, and moonfire stays unchanged

  7. #7
    High Overlord Metuere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Páíns View Post
    I just checked there and the times without jagged wounds are 7.2sec for rip, 4.5 for rake and trash, 4.2 for moonfire

    With jagged wounds spec it's 4.8sec for rip, 3 sec for rake and trash, and moonfire stays unchanged
    Alright cool, thanks, I'll change them and update the string again.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Metuere View Post
    Level 45

    This row depends on whether you're soloing or in a raid honestly. Restoration affinity is a strong solo talent, because of the strong heals, but in a raid situation where you have plenty of outside healing on you, Guardian Affinity is going to be the best choice, because of survivability. The less damage you're taking, the less heals you're going to need. You also get a pretty regular heal from using Healing Touch.
    I think balance affinity is really strong. The extra 5 yards gives some really nice positional advantages and its that much more on our limited AoE. I think on any fight that has "don't stand in me" pools Balance will take the advantage.

  9. #9
    I'm sorry but saying SR/BT/JW is bad synergy is objectively wrong. It is the highest dps spec we have for all situations. People are just executing the rotation poorly, or they have no conception of what the rotation should be. LI is also objectively better than scent in all situations right now. I suggest you take a look at both logs and Sims before you claim our only viable raiding spec "does no damage" in a guide about feral.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Metuere View Post
    While MF may be cheaper than shred, to use it optimally, you need to use it in addition to shred, and since Primal Fury can't proc from DoT spells, you'd end up with far less combo points over the duration if you didn't, yeah it's a good talent, but the extra 10% crit affects everything.
    Actually your wrong, test it for your self in game. MF benefits from Primal Fury when it crits it gives 2CP instead of 1, your thinking of the old bear version that didn't benefit from DoT's because of the bleeds bear had.

    Not 100% sure but IIRC the 10% increase crit chance from Blood Scent only effects instant attacks like AA, Shred, FB, Maim, Swipe, along with the initial hits of Rake/Thrash, and the 10% crit doesn't effect our bleeds from Rip/Rake/Thrash. Yes they snapshot but that is damage % modifier from certain skills/talents they should still update dynamically from our character tab from things like trinket procs that give Crit/Mast/Vers.

    MF adds CP/energy to the mix because its 10 energy cheaper than shred, gives you 1 free shred for every 4 MF you do.


    Guess you didn't read this part but will say it again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Metuere View Post


    Lunar inspiration CAN be a good choice, particularly with the T19 set bonus, but requires specific talents later on to make it viable based on energy costs/regens.



    As I said earlier, Lunar Inspiration works well with the T19 set bonus, as it adds an extra bleed to your target, which is an 8% damage increase.

    Moonfire is not a bleed it has no direct interaction with the 4pc, it doesn't not give an extra stack.


    Now for a few more things

    T19-2PC: Thrash now generates a combo point if it hits at least 1 target.
    T19-4PC: Shred and Swipe deal 8% more damage per your Bleed effect on the target.

    What T-19 more or less does is add Thrash into our ST mix, it adds 8% stack, adds CP works with primal fury too iirc giving 2 CP on the initial hit if it crits, also makes one of the Artifact golden traits Shadow Thrash part of out ST damage also. Thrash also benefits from JW and can eat up a BT charge over shred

    Should add a section about T19 with the set bonus to your guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metuere View Post

    Soul of the Forest is pretty trash, so your choices here on the first row narrow down to Incarnation, and Savage Roar.
    SoTF is actually very good for solo/lvl'ing, it adds energy for more shreds/FB on stuff that dies really fast, also works good with JW/BT for those who have trouble with or don't like SR.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metuere View Post
    Savage Roar - Sabertooth - Blood Talons

    If you really have to take Savage Roar and Blood Talons, this is a very good build for you, as it gives you 30 more energy to play with each rotation, since after you have your highest ratio Rip applied, you don't have to cast it on that target ever again.
    It doesn't give you 30 Energy because you still have to use finishers anyways which all cost energy, it only technically gives you 5 energy because FB base cost is 25 vs Rip 30.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Agartha View Post
    I'm sorry but saying SR/BT/JW is bad synergy is objectively wrong. It is the highest dps spec we have for all situations. People are just executing the rotation poorly, or they have no conception of what the rotation should be. LI is also objectively better than scent in all situations right now. I suggest you take a look at both logs and Sims before you claim our only viable raiding spec "does no damage" in a guide about feral.
    For all situations? Does this include pre-patch with demon invasion gear?

    I've found that dropping BT for moment of clarity gives me slightly more output. This is using my damage rotation which is simply never use FB. The problem I had was being energy starved which would cause either rip or roar to drop at certain points. I tried to adjust by using shorter roars with no benefit. I also tried keeping BT and dropping roar for forest and that was really bad.

    Once my situation improves and I get the legendary I want, I'll undoubtedly switch back.

    Or better yet, if they simply dropped the cost of roar to say 20 energy or free, that would be ideal. I mean how much energy does it take to roar? I wouldn't use more energy yelling than I would punching someone.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    A lot of inaccuracies, no maths beyond any statements. Solely speculation and a lot of inaccurate conclusions.

    Fort instance you say "it's better than reapplying Rip" in regards to FB, This is actually incorrect and reapplying rip will be more dps over the fight due to synergies with ashamanes bite and the fact that you won't be able to maintain bleeds at effective durations if you FB

    "I've found that dropping BT for moment of clarity gives me slightly more output" this should never be the case if you're playing the spec correctly. If MOC is giving you more practical output its because you're making some HUGE mistakes

    If you get good at the rotation you'll be able to maintain buffs and debuffs no matter the gear.

    I reccomend popping into druid discord and asking some questions in order ascertain how the class actually performs, how talent combinations weigh up etc.

    No one who isn't fucking retarded thinks feral is awful.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucktoe View Post
    For all situations? Does this include pre-patch with demon invasion gear?

    I've found that dropping BT for moment of clarity gives me slightly more output. This is using my damage rotation which is simply never use FB. The problem I had was being energy starved which would cause either rip or roar to drop at certain points. I tried to adjust by using shorter roars with no benefit. I also tried keeping BT and dropping roar for forest and that was really bad.

    Once my situation improves and I get the legendary I want, I'll undoubtedly switch back.

    Or better yet, if they simply dropped the cost of roar to say 20 energy or free, that would be ideal. I mean how much energy does it take to roar? I wouldn't use more energy yelling than I would punching someone.
    Roar now snapshots, it doesn't matter if it falls off for 4-5 seconds as long as you have bleeds rolling, invasion gear is plenty to make the rotation work.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Agartha View Post
    Roar now snapshots, it doesn't matter if it falls off for 4-5 seconds as long as you have bleeds rolling, invasion gear is plenty to make the rotation work.
    To expand on the last part, BS/SR/JW/BT(and LI/SR/JW/BT) is playable with just a weapon equipped and nothing else, so if people have trouble keeping up SR/Rake/Rip(/MF), they just need to practice more, because it's never a gear issue. Just need to stop pressing Pathetic Nibble, it's not worth it, and keep in mind that DoTs dropping off for a second every now and then isn't the end of the world.
    Last edited by Tradu; 2016-08-28 at 04:06 PM.
    Tradushuffle
    <Echoes>
    Laughing Skull-EU

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    To expand on the last part, BS/SR/JW/BT(and LI/SR/JW/BT) is playable with just a weapon equipped and nothing else, so if people have trouble keeping up SR/Rake/Rip(/MF), they just need to practice more, because it's never a gear issue.
    Is there a reason I shouldn't use lunar inspiration?

    I've found this to be slightly higher dps as well. I'm doing 10m runs on the single raid dummy.

    As to the moment of clarity issue. I'll practice more with both today. I understand snapshotting, I'm still having to sacrifice roar uptime using BT which puts me slightly below using clarity. I think if I can get my crit up to around 30 it would probably fix things, it is at 25 currently

    I've tried every variation I can think of to tweak my attacks. I feel my weak point is my berz usage. I also should clarify I do use FB in my clarity rotation in the rare instance I have over 10 seconds on both Roar and Rip with fury coming off of CD within 10 seconds.

    The difference in the two is 32.8 and 33.2 dps.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucktoe View Post
    Is there a reason I shouldn't use lunar inspiration?

    I've found this to be slightly higher dps as well. I'm doing 10m runs on the single raid dummy.

    As to the moment of clarity issue. I'll practice more with both today. I understand snapshotting, I'm still having to sacrifice roar uptime using BT which puts me slightly below using clarity. I think if I can get my crit up to around 30 it would probably fix things, it is at 25 currently

    I've tried every variation I can think of to tweak my attacks. I feel my weak point is my berz usage. I also should clarify I do use FB in my clarity rotation in the rare instance I have over 10 seconds on both Roar and Rip with fury coming off of CD within 10 seconds.

    The difference in the two is 32.8 and 33.2 dps.
    The only reason not to use LI is if you want a simpler rotation(or on very AoE heavy fights).

    Losing a little bit of SR uptime isn't the end of the world either(just need to make sure SR is up any time you apply a bleed, and obviously as much as possible even outside of that), so BT shouldn't be losing to MoC regardless.


    Also, regarding the OP: I have no idea why you think spending all your resources on maintaining bleeds+SR is a bad thing. That's the best possible place to spend resources, because they're the most powerful builders/generators, so using more of those is only good.
    Your understanding of Pandemic is also wrong. It doesn't add the damage from the previous DoT to the new one, it adds up to 30% of the duration. And while Pandemic is nice and all, it's not something worth tunnelvisioning on with how weak Pathetic Nibble is currently, in basically every situation it's better to just refresh Rip with a similar snapshot.
    Last edited by Tradu; 2016-08-28 at 04:28 PM.
    Tradushuffle
    <Echoes>
    Laughing Skull-EU

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    The only reason not to use LI is if you want a simpler rotation(or on very AoE heavy fights).

    Losing a little bit of SR uptime isn't the end of the world either(just need to make sure SR is up any time you apply a bleed, and obviously as much as possible even outside of that), so BT shouldn't be losing to MoC regardless.
    I hadn't considered switching from lunar inspiration to blood scent simply because I find moonfire incredibly useful. That 10% more crit may solve my energy/combo point starvation issue until I can get my crit up.

    Edit: Just did a 5 min run and ended at 33.7 using blood scent and blood talons. This seems good in addressing my low crit rate. Thanks!

    I'm now wondering at what point will it be better to switch back to lunar inspiration?
    Last edited by Rucktoe; 2016-08-28 at 04:34 PM.

  18. #18
    Just returning since WorLK (mained a hunter) so sorry if this is a really basic question.

    If you take the talent "Lunar Inspiration" does it make moonfire replace shred in all instances? If not, when do you shred over moonfire?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Taneras View Post
    Just returning since WorLK (mained a hunter) so sorry if this is a really basic question.

    If you take the talent "Lunar Inspiration" does it make moonfire replace shred in all instances? If not, when do you shred over moonfire?
    You Shred over Moonfire when you don't need to refresh the Moonfire DoT(there's some other cases, but not worth worrying about for the most part)
    Tradushuffle
    <Echoes>
    Laughing Skull-EU

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Taneras View Post
    Just returning since WorLK (mained a hunter) so sorry if this is a really basic question.

    If you take the talent "Lunar Inspiration" does it make moonfire replace shred in all instances? If not, when do you shred over moonfire?
    You only moonfire when you need to refresh the DoT (I believe pandemic window is 4.2 seconds) with the fairly rare exception of when you are at 3 combo points but you have to use predatory swiftness. You can use it to gain a combo point without spending a BT charge.

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