"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Everybody that died on the broken shore died for "nothing" probably other than Varian. He's the only one whose death served a tangible, objectively demonstrable benefit. Anybody else may have died for their feels or a belief, etc, but his death was the only one that advanced a material goal -- to free the gunship.
Everybody else died for nothing, since the whole thing was a trap and the portal could not be closed without the pillars -- and Sylvanas' carrying out Vol'jin's order kept more people from dying for nothing, on BOTH sides.
Well, "thinking through" can be a real herculean effort for some enlightened minds.
So the difference is that the Alliance thrown their king away to save their hides?
Except Horde and Alliance are no friends. They never were, they'll never be. They can cooperate to some extent but that's all.
Fact is, the Horde was in the shittiest situation and obviously cared to ensure the thing that was the most at stake, aka survival. All the Alliance had to do (and they did) was doing the same the moment they realized their situation as well.
If giving that warning would have risked their lives? If Varian would have been in the same desperate situation, his first concern would have been to ensure the safety of his faction, not shouting warnings around.
Which choice? Obey an order of her Warchief? How that implies throwing her un-life away when she successfully led the Horde retreat without such need? Varian was the one who had to go full anime mode to favor the Alliance's own retreat.
Seriously, I don't know if it's just the faction bias or someone here is genuinely obtuse, because some look very serious and engaged in their arguing, which is rather scary.
didn't the alliance retreat because the Horde retreated? Not sure they would have won the fight had both sides stayed, Sylvanaas saw that, Genn seemed to think they would have won had the Horde stayed.. who knows. :P
Horde and alliance peace is the equivalent of Mutants and Humans peace in the X-Men comics, when it happens you know it won't be for long.
It's the Alliance and Horde fighting that makes me love Warcraft, take that away and its just good v evil, I like the gray area of misunderstanding that the Horde and alliance have, its the reason Warcraft RTS was so awesome, even when in Warcraft 3 they joined together there was still tension there, and I love that.
There was a reason why the Wrathgate and the Legion in game cinematics are so good is because both ignited tension between the two factions.
I don't mind an uneasy Alliance like in Vanilla, TBC and WoD but the best stories are when the Horde and Alliance are duking it out :P
Last edited by Orby; 2016-08-28 at 03:24 PM.
I love Warcraft, I dislike WoW
Unsubbed since January 2021, now a Warcraft fan from a distance
"its right there in the video". You chose a poor time to act smart and use my own words against me. Don't reinterpret his words to fit your narrative. Dont be thick, his line expressed their INSTANT realization that the horde was retreating, not a lack of knowledge of what the horn meant. They immediately started talking about what to do now that the horde were pulling back.
theres a reason its called "sounding the retreat", because that was the best way to go about it in those days. She sounded it the moment the situation was beyond help.
Plus how would doing it some other way earlier have helped? Guldan called down the felreaver in response to their retreat. The fel reaver is the reason varian jumped down. Had it been earlier, guldan would have done it earlier with the same result.
I'm just clearing up a general misconception where people seem to be putting the call for retreat down to Sylvanas, as if she were acting Warchief at the time. It was Vol'jin's call, so rancor for the retreat and/or its possible ramifications should go down to him, not her.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
I just want to know how literally every alliance knows Sylvanas leads the forsaken of the horde and is now currently the Warchief of the horde yet her sister knows nothing of that.
Fun detail, the Horde retreat was what led to the Alliance retreat. If the Horde stayed there and died like a drunken-enraged Bozo the Clown, the Alliance would still lose its support and would be forced to retreat, unless they had a death wish and wanted to be rekt by Gul'dan.
Or, if there was a time constrain to Gul'dan's felfire rain of Fel Reavers and he didn't use it simply to fuck up their retreat, they'd all end up flattened and burned to crisp by said meteor without a proper way to react it even before they started to feel like they are getting rekt.