Page 5 of 12 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
7
... LastLast
  1. #81
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Epic Premium
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    45,579
    Quote Originally Posted by Saafe View Post
    Once again, OBViOUSLY not what I'm saying. I'm aware of what the horn was for, but the Alliance had no real conformation until they realised they were all gone. Sylvanas had been yelling off the cliff to Varian already, surely she could've gotten someone to tell the Alliance to fall back instead of just assuming they would know what the horn meant.

    Either way, Genns reaction, aswell as Varians "She wouldnt..." pretty much shows that they thought the Horde betrayed them and left them to be slaughtered by the Legion (it's RIGHT there in the video) . Valkyr horn or not, the Alliance clearly had no clue and thus should have been "warned" to retreat in a better way, if they did, Varian may have just made it out of there alive.
    Nature of the signal aside, I think it's also good to point at that the retreat and the sounding of Sylvanas' horn wasn't exactly her call, either - it was Vol'jin's, and she was following his final orders to not allow the Horde to die at the Broken Shore.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Saafe View Post
    Oh of course, I don't find Sylvanas at fault at all, nor even Vol'jin for that matter. It's a total misunderstanding that will hopefully be resolved somehow before another huge war starts lol
    Because nothing can go wrong with 2 sides killing eachother while there's an unstopable demoinc invasion going on, right?

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Getting called bad by someone who makes fun of peoples disabilities, how will I sleep at night?

    Aside from that, as another said, the amount of armchair generals is astounding.

    The quote you used doesn't work in this situation, dying at the broken shore would have been for nothing.
    Everybody that died on the broken shore died for "nothing" probably other than Varian. He's the only one whose death served a tangible, objectively demonstrable benefit. Anybody else may have died for their feels or a belief, etc, but his death was the only one that advanced a material goal -- to free the gunship.

    Everybody else died for nothing, since the whole thing was a trap and the portal could not be closed without the pillars -- and Sylvanas' carrying out Vol'jin's order kept more people from dying for nothing, on BOTH sides.

  4. #84
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Dreadfort, or Korriban. You never know.
    Posts
    20,441
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Everybody that died on the broken shore died for "nothing" probably other than Varian. He's the only one whose death served a tangible, objectively demonstrable benefit. Anybody else may have died for their feels or a belief, etc, but his death was the only one that advanced a material goal -- to free the gunship.

    Everybody else died for nothing, since the whole thing was a trap and the portal could not be closed without the pillars -- and Sylvanas' carrying out Vol'jin's order kept more people from dying for nothing, on BOTH sides.
    Pretty much
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...amCannonFodder

    This is why the Horde looked like pussies. Thrall moaning and crawling on the ground, Vol'Jin dying like a wimp, Baine bitching he can't go on. It was all used as a plot device to make Varian's death more impactful and to 180 Sylvanas' character.

    How do you make someone look strong? By making everyone else look weak!
    Also called the Worf/Wolverine Effect. When someone needs to be strong, they take strong characters and make them look weak in comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiserneko View Post
    Alright, you've convinced me. You've defeated me with your superior intellect and articulate arguments. All hail Jokerfiend.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Everybody that died on the broken shore died for "nothing" probably other than Varian. He's the only one whose death served a tangible, objectively demonstrable benefit. Anybody else may have died for their feels or a belief, etc, but his death was the only one that advanced a material goal -- to free the gunship.

    Everybody else died for nothing, since the whole thing was a trap and the portal could not be closed without the pillars -- and Sylvanas' carrying out Vol'jin's order kept more people from dying for nothing, on BOTH sides.
    But... but... the horde... cowards... victory or death...

  7. #87
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Burned Teldrassil, cooking up tasty delicacies with all the elven fat I can gather
    Posts
    13,708
    Quote Originally Posted by DarklingThrush View Post
    But any player who doesn't get it is not thinking it through.
    Well, "thinking through" can be a real herculean effort for some enlightened minds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pull My Finger View Post
    Varian died heroically to save the rest of his gang. Horde on the other hand just pussied out collectively.
    So the difference is that the Alliance thrown their king away to save their hides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chitika View Post
    The only thing you can criticize is that the Horde turned it into an unorganized retreat instead of a tactical withdrawal.
    They quite literally used the paladin retreat completly untroubled about leaving the Alliances flank uncovered. They only cared about themselves and their survival. Even if they just told the Alliance that they are about to be overrun instead jsut just fleeing the battlefield it would have given the Alliance a few seconds to go into a defensive position, it's more luck than anything that Varian called in that gunship beforehand.
    I bet you they wouldn't have acted like that if those soldiers down there were Horde too.

    What would you think about a friend that let's go of the fridge you are carrying up the stairs just like that because it's too heavy?
    You don't do that, you tell your friend to put it down gently.
    Except Horde and Alliance are no friends. They never were, they'll never be. They can cooperate to some extent but that's all.

    Fact is, the Horde was in the shittiest situation and obviously cared to ensure the thing that was the most at stake, aka survival. All the Alliance had to do (and they did) was doing the same the moment they realized their situation as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saafe View Post
    The Alliance wouldn't have left Sylvanas&co without a warning.
    If giving that warning would have risked their lives? If Varian would have been in the same desperate situation, his first concern would have been to ensure the safety of his faction, not shouting warnings around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  8. #88
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Burned Teldrassil, cooking up tasty delicacies with all the elven fat I can gather
    Posts
    13,708
    Quote Originally Posted by Highwhale View Post
    I just remembered Keeshan's cosmetic item - Die for something or live for nothing! Varian made his choice when Fel Reaver grabbed airship. So did Sylvanas when Vol'jin got rekted.

    PS Horde players you are bad. Just accept what your faction was weak and run like cowards.
    Which choice? Obey an order of her Warchief? How that implies throwing her un-life away when she successfully led the Horde retreat without such need? Varian was the one who had to go full anime mode to favor the Alliance's own retreat.

    Seriously, I don't know if it's just the faction bias or someone here is genuinely obtuse, because some look very serious and engaged in their arguing, which is rather scary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  9. #89
    Titan Orby's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Under the stars
    Posts
    12,977
    didn't the alliance retreat because the Horde retreated? Not sure they would have won the fight had both sides stayed, Sylvanaas saw that, Genn seemed to think they would have won had the Horde stayed.. who knows. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Saafe View Post
    I agree. I really had hoped we'd finally have some peace between the Horde and the Alliance, but Blizzard seem rather desperate to still force it on us. Eh, maybe one day.
    Horde and alliance peace is the equivalent of Mutants and Humans peace in the X-Men comics, when it happens you know it won't be for long.

    It's the Alliance and Horde fighting that makes me love Warcraft, take that away and its just good v evil, I like the gray area of misunderstanding that the Horde and alliance have, its the reason Warcraft RTS was so awesome, even when in Warcraft 3 they joined together there was still tension there, and I love that.

    There was a reason why the Wrathgate and the Legion in game cinematics are so good is because both ignited tension between the two factions.

    I don't mind an uneasy Alliance like in Vanilla, TBC and WoD but the best stories are when the Horde and Alliance are duking it out :P
    Last edited by Orby; 2016-08-28 at 03:24 PM.
    I love Warcraft, I dislike WoW

    Unsubbed since January 2021, now a Warcraft fan from a distance

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Saafe View Post
    Once again, OBViOUSLY not what I'm saying. I'm aware of what the horn was for, but the Alliance had no real conformation until they realised they were all gone. Sylvanas had been yelling off the cliff to Varian already, surely she could've gotten someone to tell the Alliance to fall back instead of just assuming they would know what the horn meant.

    Either way, Genns reaction, aswell as Varians "She wouldnt..." pretty much shows that they thought the Horde betrayed them and left them to be slaughtered by the Legion (it's RIGHT there in the video) . Valkyr horn or not, the Alliance clearly had no clue and thus should have been "warned" to retreat in a better way, if they did, Varian may have just made it out of there alive.
    "its right there in the video". You chose a poor time to act smart and use my own words against me. Don't reinterpret his words to fit your narrative. Dont be thick, his line expressed their INSTANT realization that the horde was retreating, not a lack of knowledge of what the horn meant. They immediately started talking about what to do now that the horde were pulling back.

    theres a reason its called "sounding the retreat", because that was the best way to go about it in those days. She sounded it the moment the situation was beyond help.

    Plus how would doing it some other way earlier have helped? Guldan called down the felreaver in response to their retreat. The fel reaver is the reason varian jumped down. Had it been earlier, guldan would have done it earlier with the same result.

  11. #91
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Epic Premium
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    45,579
    Quote Originally Posted by Saafe View Post
    Oh of course, I don't find Sylvanas at fault at all, nor even Vol'jin for that matter. It's a total misunderstanding that will hopefully be resolved somehow before another huge war starts lol
    I'm just clearing up a general misconception where people seem to be putting the call for retreat down to Sylvanas, as if she were acting Warchief at the time. It was Vol'jin's call, so rancor for the retreat and/or its possible ramifications should go down to him, not her.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Seriously, I don't know if it's just the faction bias or someone here is genuinely obtuse, because some look very serious and engaged in their arguing, which is rather scary.
    Obvious faction bias is ovbious.

  13. #93
    I just want to know how literally every alliance knows Sylvanas leads the forsaken of the horde and is now currently the Warchief of the horde yet her sister knows nothing of that.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Getting called bad by someone who makes fun of peoples disabilities, how will I sleep at night?
    You probably won't since you will be too busy jacking off to Sylvanas :3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  15. #95
    Deleted
    Fun detail, the Horde retreat was what led to the Alliance retreat. If the Horde stayed there and died like a drunken-enraged Bozo the Clown, the Alliance would still lose its support and would be forced to retreat, unless they had a death wish and wanted to be rekt by Gul'dan.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Which choice? Obey an order of her Warchief? How that implies throwing her un-life away when she successfully led the Horde retreat without such need? Varian was the one who had to go full anime mode to favor the Alliance's own retreat.

    Seriously, I don't know if it's just the faction bias or someone here is genuinely obtuse, because some look very serious and engaged in their arguing, which is rather scary.
    Mon, you're replying to a post by Highwale, how can you not know the answer? >.>
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  17. #97
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Wakaranailol View Post
    I just want to know how literally every alliance knows Sylvanas leads the forsaken of the horde and is now currently the Warchief of the horde yet her sister knows nothing of that.
    Vereesa or Alleria? Vereesa knows.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Fun detail, the Horde retreat was what led to the Alliance retreat. If the Horde stayed there and died like a drunken-enraged Bozo the Clown, the Alliance would still lose its support and would be forced to retreat, unless they had a death wish and wanted to be rekt by Gul'dan.
    Or, if there was a time constrain to Gul'dan's felfire rain of Fel Reavers and he didn't use it simply to fuck up their retreat, they'd all end up flattened and burned to crisp by said meteor without a proper way to react it even before they started to feel like they are getting rekt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  19. #99
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Burned Teldrassil, cooking up tasty delicacies with all the elven fat I can gather
    Posts
    13,708
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Mon, you're replying to a post by Highwale, how can you not know the answer? >.>
    Oh, ok.

    So both?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Oh, ok.

    So both?
    Well, I'm not saying you're right to avoid infraction and stuff, so I'll just say you're not wrong oO
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •