Flat tax support, arguments for or against it?

[NineSpine]

So can you if youre not happy with capitalistic democracy.

You aren't in favor of democracy. You actively oppose it in everything you said. You want government to force everyone to live under your preferred system, not go by the will of the people and the common good.

[JohnBrown1917]

So can you if youre not happy with capitalistic democracy.

So its okay for countries to decide what it wants to do? Or what?

[Deleted]

You do at least recognize that you are the one arguing against democratic rule, right?

Not against constitutional democracy no.. but against mob rule or tyranny of the majority sure.

[Kyriani]

Because if I had my way ,there would only be 2 rules, never use any kind of physical violence.. and respect private property. This system would mean you could actually form any other kind of system with willing friends, even a commie drum circle society. You just cant force unwilling people into it.

I'm glad you'll never get your way. Your ideas fly in the face of an actual functional society and look more like lawless frontier times. Fortunately the reality we live in is nothing like that and is unlikely to ever become that barring a global catastrophe leading us into a post apocalyptic future. In the reality we actually exist in, we're part of a global community as well as a national one and a local one. We make efforts to make life better for everyone not just ourselves.

[NineSpine]

Not against constitutional democracy no.. but against mob rule or tyranny of the majority sure.

You explicitly said that the government's only function is to enforce YOUR preferred economic system, and that actions in favor of the common good are immoral.

[Logwyn]

so all of you thinks its fair that middle class like me and my parents get riped for 40% of our checks while the rich exploit the piss out of the tax code to pay damn near nothing?

I wouldn't call people making above 400k "middle class".


Against. Then again I'm against all income tax. The Sixteenth Amendment needs to be repealed. If not for the 16th income would be unconstitutional in the US.

I'd prefer a system of sales tax. Where there is a tax on sold goods except for the essentials. Food, Medicine, Health Care, and Water/Gas/Electric. wouldn't be taxed.
All others items sure. Go buy a car, house, computer, dildo, beer, cigarettes, etc you pay a 10% tax.

Get rid of this dividing class tension between "poor" and "rich". And controlling factors like being married you get X off.

[BannedForViews]

Because person A, who evades paying their taxes, is agreeing to pay those taxes as their contribution to society, and then dishonestly and illegally trying to avoid that responsibility.

Person B, who's relying on government support, is being supported by their peers in exactly the way we've collectively agreed that people in need should be supported.

So yes, Person A is a far more dishonest and reprehensible individual. They're literally the only one doing anything wrong.

You throw around the word "agree" pretty freely. As if anyone actually has a choice in any of this.

[Deleted]

You explicitly said that the government's only function is to enforce YOUR preferred economic system, and that actions in favor of the common good are immoral.

Nah, I guess Im just lazy. Its much easier to do business in a system with less rules than having to play around them. It wouldnt change much in my case, I just really hate commies and want them to suffer. Its a personal pet peeve

[BannedForViews]

It received opposition because it is stupid. Demand fuels the economy. Shifting the economic burden to the classes that generate the demand is asinine.

Keynes wasn't even foolish enough to make that argument.

[NineSpine]

You throw around the word "agree" pretty freely. As if anyone actually has a choice in any of this.

Good point, they don't, which is why a government that operates for the common good is the only moral system.

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Keynes wasn't even foolish enough to make that argument.

You don't think demand fuels the economy? Really?

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Nah, I guess Im just lazy. Its much easier to do business in a system with less rules than having to play around them. It wouldnt change much in my case, I just really hate commies and want them to suffer. Its a personal pet peeve

You aren't arguing for a system with less rules. You are just arguing for a system with rules that benefit the few at the expense of the many.

[Deleted]

You aren't arguing for a system with less rules. You are just arguing for a system with rules that benefit the few at the expense of the many.

How about no rules.. just basic age old stuff like dont kill, dont steal.. stuff like that? But I think its wasted, youre just unable to get it through your thick head.

[NineSpine]

How about no rules.. just basic age old stuff like dont kill, dont steal.. stuff like that? But I think its wasted, youre just unable to get it through your thick head.

Those are rules, and you need a whole complex property system to enforce "dont steal" in a modern economy.

You still have yet to tell me why you have the right to force me to live under your economic system.

[Deleted]

Those are rules, and you need a whole complex property system to enforce "dont steal" in a modern economy.

You still have yet to tell me why you have the right to force me to live under your economic system.

No you dont.. if its not yours, dont take it, as simple as that.

[NineSpine]

No you dont.. if its not yours, dont take it, as simple as that.

How do you establish what is yours without rules about property?

[Deleted]

How do you establish what is yours without rules about property?

Simple.. not yours, dont touch.

[NineSpine]

Simple.. not yours, dont touch.

How did you establish it is not mine? How did we establish it is yours?

[Deleted]

Please tell me a single society that existed without government.

Pretty much all of them from like 40k BC till 5k BC.

[BannedForViews]

The "point" is that you keep making assertions that are just objectively false, on their face.

A two-bracket system is not a "flat tax", no matter how much you wish it were.

A true flat tax allows for no deductions, despite your claim that "all" flat taxes allow for them.

You're simply using terms incorrectly.

If you work in enough deductions and such to allow for gradations in the effective tax rate, you're achieving the same result as a progressive tax bracket system, and none of the arguments in favor of a flat tax even apply any more.

Flat is a reference to the marginal rate. It is a pretty commonly known concept. I did not invent it, I did not name or define it. Do not project.

You dislike the name. Good for you.

By your logic, progressive tax systems are not in fact progressive, because there are people who pay lower proportional taxes at higher marginal rates.

[NineSpine]

Pretty much all of them from like 40k BC till 5k BC.

I don't think you understand what the word "society" means. Before government, people lived in small communal groups.

[Deleted]

How did you establish it is not mine? How did we establish it is yours?

How do you establish your body parts are yours and I cant just take them and .. um.. sell them?