[Guardian] 7.2.5 Legion Guardian Guide by Pumps

[Ikee]

So how are we in raids and mythic+? Having trouble deciding between my bear and my DK.
I read so many conflicting things everywhere some say we are bad some say we are top tier.

[Gemini Soul]

Gratz Pumps. Cheers for the guide.

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That's not how hotfixes work though. Lately they've just delayed hotfixes till after the patch notes went up to warn the players of upcoming changes. The actual nerf was posted just before the weekly restart in US, and about 36 hours before the EU one.

Some hot fixes require a restart....http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/7...xes-august-26/

Here you'll find a list of hotfixes that address various issues related to the recently-released World of Warcraft Pre-expansion Patch. Some of the hotfixes below take effect the moment they were implemented, while others may require scheduled realm restarts to go into effect. Please keep in mind that some issues cannot be addressed without a client-side patch update. This list will be updated as additional hotfixes are applied.

[Nevcairiel]

So how are we in raids and mythic+? Having trouble deciding between my bear and my DK.
I read so many conflicting things everywhere some say we are bad some say we are top tier.

Solid all around, basically. Noone should be ashamed to have a bear tanking anywhere.
Definitely among the better half of the tanks.

[xidious]

What is everyone's plan on what golden trait to go first? Particularly for mythic raids.

In beta I went for Gory Fur first then adaptive fur. Gf/AF is definitely the 'safe' route, but I don't feel it's all that necessary if raids won't open for 3 weeks.

I'm thinking more about Pump's suggestion of EotN along the top half. Especially if 23 points are possible with regular daily quest turn-ins we can get 2 golden traits, thus going EotN along the top and then Bear Hug, Gory Fur, and possibly Roar of the crowd. That would give us better damage for leveling and in 5 man's.

Again, by the time raids open we should be able to get to Gory Fur/ursoc's endurance for survivability for IF uptime and stacking. Not to mention there are some fights that may benefit from EotN's CC immunity such as mythic dragons of nightmare.

Sent from my XT1031 using Tapatalk

[Pumpsm8]

Bold n Underlined the part, should add to this section that while in bear form it only heals you for 1.5% instead of 3% for those who don't know about the hidden passive on bear form and taking it because they think its 3%. Should also mention in there that it doesn't double dip from the mastery +healing bonus.

Will do mate, good spot.

[Veyloris]

I may just notice this so often because it bugs me so much, but it may be worth mentioning in the guide that each stack of ironfur gives an equal amount of mitigation increase, even if the armor on character sheet doesn't reflect that. Seems like a common misconception with mechanics that appear to have decreasing returns but in reality have increasing returns.

[exochaft]

I'm thinking more about Pump's suggestion of EotN along the top half. Especially if 23 points are possible with regular daily quest turn-ins we can get 2 golden traits, thus going EotN along the top and then Bear Hug, Gory Fur, and possibly Roar of the crowd. That would give us better damage for leveling and in 5 man's.

Again, by the time raids open we should be able to get to Gory Fur/ursoc's endurance for survivability for IF uptime and stacking. Not to mention there are some fights that may benefit from EotN's CC immunity such as mythic dragons of nightmare.

EotN feels like a no-brainer, as the benefits are very tangible (felt like this on the beta, as least). Besides the damage boost and CC immunity, I really enjoyed the massive boost in Leech for the duration since FR isn't as on-demand as it used to be. While the other two traits work towards mitigating more damage, our mitigation is already pretty good without those traits. Our self-healing is where we're lacking a bit due to the direction change of Legion towards less solo sustainability. It feels like how Incarnation/Berserk + Nature's Vigil felt in it's day, albeit shorter duration.

For what it's worth, everyone should roughly be able to get their first golden trait when you hit level 110, depending upon which artifact route you take and other various exploratory/questing factors.

[Silent Earth]

Any guide/advice on how best to go about catweaving when using Feral Aff? Talking specifics, assuming there's more to it than "go cat when not being swung at".

[Odengard]

Nice guide! About time someone made one! Thanks alot!

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Any guide/advice on how best to go about catweaving when using Feral Aff? Talking specifics, assuming there's more to it than "go cat when not being swung at".

Catweaving is addressed above. It's basically a priority rotation. Use mangle and thrash on CD, if they are, switch cat, use rip > rake > shred until out of energy. Swap back, use mangle > thrash again. Back into cat until out of energy etc...

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*snip*

We still very much need that sticky instead of the outdated 6.2 guide mister @xskarma

[Gemini Soul]

Catweaving is addressed above. It's basically a priority rotation. Use mangle and thrash on CD, if they are, switch cat, use rip > rake > shred until out of energy. Swap back, use mangle > thrash again. Back into cat until out of energy etc...

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We still very much need that sticky instead of the outdated 6.2 guide mister @xskarma

I'm surprised the mod's haven't taken down all the 6.X guides yet.

[Silent Earth]

Catweaving is addressed above. It's basically a priority rotation. Use mangle and thrash on CD, if they are, switch cat, use rip > rake > shred until out of energy. Swap back, use mangle > thrash again. Back into cat until out of energy etc...

Wow, I have no idea how I missed that the first time. Cheers.

[Iry]

Bold n Underlined the part, should add to this section that while in bear form it only heals you for 1.5% instead of 3% for those who don't know about the hidden passive on bear form and taking it because they think its 3%. Should also mention in there that it doesn't double dip from the mastery +healing bonus.

Wait. Ysera's Gift heals mechanically less in Bear Form than Normal Form?

[Gemini Soul]

Wait. Ysera's Gift heals mechanically less in Bear Form than Normal Form?

Yes, there is a hidden passive on Bear Form that reduces it by 50%. You think something like that would be noted in its actual tool tip, or that the tool tip would update while in bear form but it doesn't.

[Kaeth]

EotN feels like a no-brainer, as the benefits are very tangible (felt like this on the beta, as least). Besides the damage boost and CC immunity, I really enjoyed the massive boost in Leech for the duration since FR isn't as on-demand as it used to be.

Is the Leech from EotN still only a 1.25 multiplier for the Leech you have on your gear, or is it actually 25% (more) Leech regardless of your gear?

[Drib]

Is the Leech from EotN still only a 1.25 multiplier for the Leech you have on your gear, or is it actually 25% (more) Leech regardless of your gear?

25% more, regardless of gear.

[Kaeth]

25% more, regardless of gear.

Awesome. When I was still active in the beta, it was only increasing your existing Leech from gear by 25% of that existing amount. So now, if I have no Leech at all, during RotS with EotN, I'll have 25% Leech? Again, I must say ... awesome.

[Nevcairiel]

EotN feels like a no-brainer, as the benefits are very tangible (felt like this on the beta, as least). Besides the damage boost and CC immunity, I really enjoyed the massive boost in Leech for the duration since FR isn't as on-demand as it used to be. While the other two traits work towards mitigating more damage, our mitigation is already pretty good without those traits. Our self-healing is where we're lacking a bit due to the direction change of Legion towards less solo sustainability. It feels like how Incarnation/Berserk + Nature's Vigil felt in it's day, albeit shorter duration.

EotN is definitely the strongest trait for solo play, but then ... is going straight for the solo advantage the best one can do for setting one self up for raiding?
I'm not happy this is basically the only version this guide seems to advertise, going EotN first.

In my experience from the beta, Gory Fur and the minor traits leading to it are plenty strong, and unfortunately it looks like getting both EotN and Gory Fur until raids open would not quite fit, at least not if you take the path with the better minors, as that requires 22 traits (23 with bear hug)

[exochaft]

EotN is definitely the strongest trait for solo play, but then ... is going straight for the solo advantage the best one can do for setting one self up for raiding?
I'm not happy this is basically the only version this guide seems to advertise, going EotN first.

In my experience from the beta, Gory Fur and the minor traits leading to it are plenty strong, and unfortunately it looks like getting both EotN and Gory Fur until raids open would not quite fit, at least not if you take the path with the better minors, as that requires 22 traits (23 with bear hug)

Considering the state of our mitigation without the golden traits, we're already in a really good place in terms of mitigation. I've found that even with minimal gearing past just dinging 110, it's very feasible to maintain full uptime on Ironfur and Mark of Ursol. Going straight for Gory Fur will allow greater ease in maintaining uptime on active mitigations, however the real benefit is more potential Ironfur overlap. So the real choice is a burst damage/heal/anti-CC ability or more Ironfur overlap time in this case.

Progression usually has less to do with tank survivability and more to do with raid damage output. This is why there's much discussion about Feral/Balance affinity optimizations currently, or why there was HotW discussions last expansion... keeping bears alive is/was easy, we are more concerned about pushing the damage barriers to meet DPS checks. Going Gory Fur or Adaptive Fur isn't going to make-or-break your group/raid decision to drop a healer for a DPS (nor is EotN going to do the same). Bottom line is EotN provides both damage and survival benefits, the other two golden traits only provide survival benefits.

To be fair, there is no right or wrong answer, just our opinions.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

EotN is definitely the strongest trait for solo play, but then ... is going straight for the solo advantage the best one can do for setting one self up for raiding?
I'm not happy this is basically the only version this guide seems to advertise, going EotN first.

In my experience from the beta, Gory Fur and the minor traits leading to it are plenty strong, and unfortunately it looks like getting both EotN and Gory Fur until raids open would not quite fit, at least not if you take the path with the better minors, as that requires 22 traits (23 with bear hug)

The idea is that EOTN is amazing for Mythic dungeons. So it'll majorly impact the first 3-4 weeks of your play. After that if you can reach Gory fur, it'd be best to go for it. If you can't you should go for Adaptive Fur and take bear hug.

Going gory fur first will be annoying for the first 3 weeks and good afterwards. But the difference between having EOTN and adaptive compared to EOTN and gory or adaptive is minor in a raiding setting as well.