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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by lorejunkay View Post
    Oh I could see the difference, we all could. You just couldn't get it because OP forgot to use the word planned. Look back through the conversation. At no point am I confused about it being a planned raid or not. You have been arguing against points that don't exist this whole time all because you couldn't understand that OP missed out one word.
    S**t for brains this is my last post cause im done arguing with an incompetent simpleton such as yourself. "I forgot to use the planned". Hell majority of my posts have stated that Illidan's raid was "PLANNED" <----. Want to make a statement Lorejunkay make get some facts back your side up not jump to the otherside when losing. In case you forgot already most of my replies had the word "PLANNED".

  2. #42
    This is hilarious. Reading through this thread, your both seem to be right but also both wrong.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigglyo View Post
    This is hilarious. Reading through this thread, your both seem to be right but also both wrong.
    They just both seem to lack rationality and civility, as far as i can tell. We screwed up a raid on Argus. Whether it was in motion or in planning is of secondary consequence to the important fact that it was screwed up in the first place.

    The rest is just all pissing contest over semantics and grammar.

  4. #44
    The Lightbringer steelballfc's Avatar
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    *Grapping Popcorn*
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    I just love the idea of "I want to murder people in moderation".
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    the only "positive" in your case is that, unlike Blizzard's writers, you aren't paid for that.

  5. #45
    Elemental Lord Felfaadaern Darkterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelballfc View Post
    *Grapping Popcorn*
    rofl ~ you do that every time one of these breaks out.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by AlmightyGerkin View Post
    S**t for brains this is my last post cause im done arguing with an incompetent simpleton such as yourself. "I forgot to use the planned". Hell majority of my posts have stated that Illidan's raid was "PLANNED" <----. Want to make a statement Lorejunkay make get some facts back your side up not jump to the otherside when losing. In case you forgot already most of my replies had the word "PLANNED".
    Dude you are actually brain dead aren't you? I am not saying you forgot to use the word planned. I am saying OP forgot to use it and you freaked out about it. The raid was planned, we fucked up the raid. Those are the facts. Let me show you the first comment you made in this thread.

    "Demon hunters and Illidan never went to Argus. They went to a place called Nathreza homeworld of the Nathrezim to get Seal of Argus. Pretty sure those marks are done for."

    This comment is based on the fact that OP missed the word planned which I tried to correct afterwards. But your dumbass thought that OP meant the raid in progress that we screwed up was a raid on Argus. Heres a hint for you. He didn't mean that, nobody meant that. You have been arguing with air this entire thread.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyraena View Post
    They just both seem to lack rationality and civility, as far as i can tell. We screwed up a raid on Argus. Whether it was in motion or in planning is of secondary consequence to the important fact that it was screwed up in the first place.

    The rest is just all pissing contest over semantics and grammar.
    Coming out of lurking to agree with this.

  8. #48
    Elemental Lord Felfaadaern Darkterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyraena View Post
    They just both seem to lack rationality and civility, as far as i can tell. We screwed up a raid on Argus. Whether it was in motion or in planning is of secondary consequence to the important fact that it was screwed up in the first place.

    The rest is just all pissing contest over semantics and grammar.
    Yep. Pretty much.

  9. #49
    If illidan had been less insane and less of a tyrant, we would have actually been willing to help him. Instead he had a hard on for sieging Shatarath and committing atrocities.

    I have to roll my eyes that Illidan and the illidari alone would have been able to take on Argus or Kiljaeden. Especially since they were in the middle of losing already.

    Seriously, Kaelthas was in the middle of betraying them to the legion and was summoning Kilj to Azeroth through the sunwell. They would have ended up on Argus and kilj would have laughed "Lol got a new HQ now" *pats azeroth*
    Last edited by Tenjen; 2016-08-29 at 10:12 AM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by lorejunkay View Post
    Dude you are actually brain dead aren't you? I am not saying you forgot to use the word planned. I am saying OP forgot to use it and you freaked out about it. The raid was planned, we fucked up the raid. Those are the facts. Let me show you the first comment you made in this thread.

    "Demon hunters and Illidan never went to Argus. They went to a place called Nathreza homeworld of the Nathrezim to get Seal of Argus. Pretty sure those marks are done for."

    This comment is based on the fact that OP missed the word planned which I tried to correct afterwards. But your dumbass thought that OP meant the raid in progress that we screwed up was a raid on Argus. Heres a hint for you. He didn't mean that, nobody meant that. You have been arguing with air this entire thread.
    ... just let it go... jeez

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigglyo View Post
    ... just let it go... jeez
    But its the internet I have to prove I am right and provide lols for the masses.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    If illidan had been less insane and less of a tyrant, we would have actually been willing to help him. Instead he had a hard on for sieging Shatarath and committing atrocities.
    He didn't attempt to siege Shattrath. That was Kael'thas on his own. Vorenthal pointed the finger at Illidan? Vorenthal didn't know about Kael's secret pact with Kil'jaeden.

    I have to roll my eyes that Illidan and the illidari alone would have been able to take on Argus or Kiljaeden. Especially since they were in the middle of losing already.
    Illidan knew it was a very long shot, but he also knew that he had to try, because fighting demons anyplace but their own turf does nothing but prologue our own death. He is the first person on Azeroth to understand this, because of the magical vision that was given to him be Sargeras and the long time spent in prison, which gave him ample opportunity to meditate on the numerous visions that he had.

    Seriously, Kaelthas was in the middle of betraying them to the legion and was summoning Kilj to Azeroth through the sunwell. They would have ended up on Argus and kilj would have laughed "Lol got a new HQ now" *pats azeroth*
    Possibly. But the fact that he had the balls to go there and plop down the anchors for a portal right under KJ's nose is what grabbed Xe'ra's attention, and she apparently saw something special in him because of this.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    If illidan had been less insane and less of a tyrant, we would have actually been willing to help him. Instead he had a hard on for sieging Shatarath and committing atrocities.

    I have to roll my eyes that Illidan and the illidari alone would have been able to take on Argus or Kiljaeden. Especially since they were in the middle of losing already.

    Seriously, Kaelthas was in the middle of betraying them to the legion and was summoning Kilj to Azeroth through the sunwell. They would have ended up on Argus and kilj would have laughed "Lol got a new HQ now" *pats azeroth*
    He never "had a hard on for sieging Shattrah", though. If he did, A'dal wouldn't have left him alone until Akama / us instigated the Sha'tar. The attack on Shattrah was Kael'thas' doing without Illidan's permission. I would agree on the committing atrocities part, but it's also depend on the point of view - we saw that as atrocities, they saw it as necessary sacrifices. At least, we saw that in "Illidan", the Naaru - embodiment of Light - didn't have that much issue with what he did either, so it might not be just the "twisted and insane" Illidan who thought that was ok to do what he did to go against the Legion.

    Also, they were in middle of losing because, by the time he saved us and after - Illidan already stopped caring about Outland and fully focused on the assault on Argus instead. He left everything for his advisers (Illidari council) and didn't even dispatch any big part of his DH army for it, as described in the book
    Quote Originally Posted by Illidan
    It seemed that Illidan’s hope that the Azerothians would focus on the Burning Legion had been a deluded one. Their hatred for him was so great they were prepared to ignore the larger threat. Kruul must have known they were as vengeance-crazed as Maiev Shadowsong when he lured them into invading Outland. <...>
    But he did not have time for any of this now. The fate of existence rested on his shoulders.
    “Do what is necessary,” Illidan told Gathios. He scattered the tokens on the map with a sweep of his claw. “Other matters demand my attention.
    ”We are fighting a war to preserve all existence from the fury of the Burning Legion,” he said. “It does not matter whether we hold Outland for a few more years. Once the Legion regroups, it can bring overwhelming force against us. What happens here and now is no longer important save as it bears upon the true struggle.”
    <...>
    Illidan did not care about Outland. He did not care about Hellfire Citadel or Coilfang Reservoir. None of it meant anything to him. None of it ever had, save as a stepping-stone to his ultimate destination.
    Of course, his raid could have failed. Illidan also pointed out to himself that maybe they wouldn't be able to slain KJ, or maybe the Legion might be able to recover from it. However, they did have a chance - if not by themselves, then by exploding the portal - and it'd have been carried out much earlier if we hadn't interfered with his plan.
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Qualia View Post
    He never "had a hard on for sieging Shattrah", though. If he did, A'dal wouldn't have left him alone until Akama / us instigated the Sha'tar. The attack on Shattrah was Kael'thas' doing without Illidan's permission. I would agree on the committing atrocities part, but it's also depend on the point of view - we saw that as atrocities, they saw it as necessary sacrifices. At least, we saw that in "Illidan", the Naaru - embodiment of Light - didn't have that much issue with what he did either, so it might not be just the "twisted and insane" Illidan who thought that was ok to do what he did to go against the Legion.

    Also, they were in middle of losing because, by the time he saved us and after - Illidan already stopped caring about Outland and fully focused on the assault on Argus instead. He left everything for his advisers (Illidari council) and didn't even dispatch any big part of his DH army for it, as described in the book


    Of course, his raid could have failed. Illidan also pointed out to himself that maybe they wouldn't be able to slain KJ, or maybe the Legion might be able to recover from it. However, they did have a chance - if not by themselves, then by exploding the portal - and it'd have been carried out much earlier if we hadn't interfered with his plan.

    that is understandable

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Well when the OP talks about apologizing for stopping Illidan, it should be noted that was a VERY recent retcon completely trying to justify Illidan's actions as anything other than self-serving.
    Retcon? I never thought we were wrong to kill Illidan, he did bad things, he had his own reasons for them and now that we can play DH's we can see his side of the story. But I don't think that deminishes the wrongness of what happened before or what we did 8 years ago. Just like in the Broken Shore how the horde had no choice but to retreat, yet the alliance all think they were backstabbed. That's the story in the alliance right now - sylvanas betrayed them, that's what alliance NPCs think as a fact, even though we as players can see the horde side and know it's not.
    Same with Illidan - seeing his own side to the story at a later point isn't a retcon to try and make it like what we did before was a bad thing. Just shows another side of the story, doesn't change that from the players view, illidan was 100% bad and needed to be ended.
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  16. #56
    Epic! Enthralled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Duke View Post
    Retcon? I never thought we were wrong to kill Illidan, he did bad things, he had his own reasons for them and now that we can play DH's we can see his side of the story. But I don't think that deminishes the wrongness of what happened before or what we did 8 years ago. Just like in the Broken Shore how the horde had no choice but to retreat, yet the alliance all think they were backstabbed. That's the story in the alliance right now - sylvanas betrayed them, that's what alliance NPCs think as a fact, even though we as players can see the horde side and know it's not.
    Same with Illidan - seeing his own side to the story at a later point isn't a retcon to try and make it like what we did before was a bad thing. Just shows another side of the story, doesn't change that from the players view, illidan was 100% bad and needed to be ended.
    All great points. Added story progression is not an automatic "retcon" -- it's, well, story progression. We've now been shown things that we did not know before. Those things don't change what happened earlier; what it changes is that now we've been given more information.

    There are some things in Illidan's story that will be shown to be retconned, especially in his early life. Although Illidan's youth is not the only thing that has been retconned from Knaak's War of the Ancients trilogy. While Blizzard is letting the basic bare-bones plot points of those books stand, including the time travelers, so much else from those books is completely incorrect these days that they are essentially worthless as a lore source, except perhaps for things like the story of Malfurion and Xavius and Deathwing and the Dragon Soul. The Old God lore, the lore about Well, the lore about the Titans and Sargeras -- all very confusing. And this is probably the reason that these books are out of print and not currently scheduled to be re-printed this fall as part of the Blizzard Legends series.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Duke View Post
    Retcon? I never thought we were wrong to kill Illidan, he did bad things, he had his own reasons for them and now that we can play DH's we can see his side of the story. But I don't think that deminishes the wrongness of what happened before or what we did 8 years ago. Just like in the Broken Shore how the horde had no choice but to retreat, yet the alliance all think they were backstabbed. That's the story in the alliance right now - sylvanas betrayed them, that's what alliance NPCs think as a fact, even though we as players can see the horde side and know it's not.
    Same with Illidan - seeing his own side to the story at a later point isn't a retcon to try and make it like what we did before was a bad thing. Just shows another side of the story, doesn't change that from the players view, illidan was 100% bad and needed to be ended.
    The guy seems blinded by Illidan hate. Illidan has never been a self serving character. He may take an opportunity to grow in power if it presents itself but he always had a greater good in mind.

  18. #58
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    I have gathered all my marks of the Illidari, did a search for Demon Hunters and mailed each 1. Now justice is done.

    No, but serious now, should we also apologize to Sargeras for ruining his plans even if he wants to kill the void lords? No, because to our world, to our people, his intentions are still bad. Just like how Illidan's intentions for the denizens of Outland were bad, from draining the water to using their souls to fuel his portals etc. It doesn't matter that his end-goal was good because the end does not justify the means. If it did, you know what? Illidan would still be evil, for he'd be the one ruining Sargeras's plans, Sargeras whose super good end-goal is to end the void lords.
    Last edited by mmoc994dcc48c2; 2016-08-29 at 03:50 PM.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowraven View Post
    I have gathered all my marks of the Illidari, did a search for Demon Hunters and mailed each 1. Now justice is done.

    No, but serious now, should we also apologize to Sargeras for ruining his plans even if he wants to kill the void lords? No, because to our world, to our people, his intentions are still bad. Just like how Illidan's intentions for the denizens of Outland were bad, from draining the water to using their souls to fuel his portals etc. It doesn't matter that his end-goal was good because the end does not justify the means. If it did, you know what? Illidan would still be evil, for he'd be the one ruining Sargeras's plans, Sargeras whose super good end-goal is to end the void lords.
    That's not Sargeras's end goal. He's not planning on fighting the void lords.

    He wants to set himself up as a god-emperor of all known universes with a fel-corrupted Azeroth at his side. Any new life that pops up will be fel, of course.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Qualia View Post
    but it's also depend on the point of view - we saw that as atrocities, they saw it as necessary sacrifices.
    So the mind controlled sex slaves - necessary sacrifice for the greater good then?

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