I don't like the new disc.

[Yunzi]

Out of all healers disc is the one with the least control over the team. If your team fucks up you have the least number of options to correct that. No amount of class knowledge will help you when dps consistently stand in the bad while the tank is getting hammered - you just don't have the tools to help them. It's incredibly frustrating.

That's one of the rare times in a raid when you spam Shadow Mend. It's an excellent spell to use for anyone taking constant, especially moderate to high constant, damage. So if *only* the main tank and the DPS-standing-in-bad are taking substantial damage, you just spam them individually with Shadow Mend, probably focusing more on the DPS since the other healers are more likely to be taking care of the tank. Forget your regular atonement rotation until the DPS gets his act together or you exasperatedly Leap of Faith him. Even without Grace, which you're unlikely to select in a raid, Shadow Mend does both good HPS and HPM in that situation.

[CptEgo]

What's the cake that we can't both have and eat in this analogy? Both raid healing and spot healing? Because I'm pretty sure all the other healers have that just fine.

Other healers aren't doing damage..

- - - Updated - - -

I don't like the new disc and I am very happy to see it will not be topping meters anymore the way it did for many years since WotLK second half. I'll be finally free to go holy for heals and perhaps shadow for dps.

1. Disc had mana issues when I tested 7.0.

2. It is subpar healing and subpar dps. I did not mind the old disc atonement or old shadow healing. But I do not want to do subpar healing b/c of subpar dps.

3. Most importantly, I hate the frustration I would feel when I set up my atonement on a bunch in a raid and a different group takes dmg, then I wasted my atonement due to unpredictable dmg. If I try to set up atonement reactionarily (is that a word?), then other healers in raid will heal way before I can and then I wasted my atonement. I have not figured a way to play disc competitively in a raid and it seems too much work and too much rng frustration for too little heals. It is just not fun.

Yes, ofcourse is fucking is. You wanna be healing and be top dps? You wanna do dps and do top healing? Ofcourse Disc is not the top performer because it does both. Would be greatly unbalanced otherwise.

[Goshko]

I am fortunate enough to have been playing with the same core group of 8-10 guys/girls since 2004 and we GENERALLY dont have that issue in small groups. When the raid expands to 17-18+, yes i can see your point and agree that it can be frustrating, but then again, the new disc is not a spot healer. Have trust in your healer team and leave the "oh shit that dumb ass DK didnt move in time" to the ones who excel in that department. You cant have your cake and eat it too.


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Disc has problems with smalled groups actually. The less real healers there are to pick up your slack the worse it is. In lager groups you just do your dps rotation waiting for the next predictable AoE. Someone took random damage? Sucks to be them, hope the other healers like them.

In any case I was talking mainly for higher 5man mythics. Where everything hits like a truck and there are no other healers to cover for discipline's shortcomings. And everything boils down to shadow mend all the thing and hope for the best (exaggerating but not by much).

That's one of the rare times in a raid when you spam Shadow Mend. It's an excellent spell to use for anyone taking constant, especially moderate to high constant, damage. So if *only* the main tank and the DPS-standing-in-bad are taking substantial damage, you just spam them individually with Shadow Mend, probably focusing more on the DPS since the other healers are more likely to be taking care of the tank. Forget your regular atonement rotation until the DPS gets his act together or you exasperatedly Leap of Faith him. Even without Grace, which you're unlikely to select in a raid, Shadow Mend does both good HPS and HPM in that situation.

At no point in a raid should you be using shadow mend on DPS. There are other healers who are much better than you at spot healing. Focus on waiting for that AoE and setting up atonement bombs. Maybe in a very small raid with only 2 healers, but it's unlikely even then.

Other healers aren't doing damage...

You know this reminds me of a great description of Discipline - it's like a houseboat. Not a very good house and not a very good boat.

[CptEgo]

Disc has problems with smalled groups actually. The less real healers there are to pick up your slack the worse it is. In lager groups you just do your dps rotation waiting for the next predictable AoE. Someone took random damage? Sucks to be them, hope the other healers like them.

In any case I was talking mainly for higher 5man mythics. Where everything hits like a truck and there are no other healers to cover for discipline's shortcomings. And everything boils down to shadow mend all the thing and hope for the best (exaggerating but not by much).



At no point in a raid should you be using shadow mend on DPS. There are other healers who are much better than you at spot healing. Focus on waiting for that AoE and setting up atonement bombs. Maybe in a very small raid with only 2 healers, but it's unlikely even then.



You know this reminds me of a great description of Discipline - it's like a houseboat. Not a very good house and not a very good boat.

Yes well I feel like everyone only cares about topping the meters, which makes it very hard to play around with fun class designs and mechanics. I think Discipline is the most unique spec in WoW, and I think it's a brilliant idea that someone had. And it's being ruined alittle bit by people who only care about numbers. When you evaluate a Disc priests performance after a raid, you look at both his damage and his healing. That's the way it should be.

[Goshko]

Yes well I feel like everyone only cares about topping the meters, which makes it very hard to play around with fun class designs and mechanics. I think Discipline is the most unique spec in WoW, and I think it's a brilliant idea that someone had. And it's being ruined alittle bit by people who only care about numbers. When you evaluate a Disc priests performance after a raid, you look at both his damage and his healing. That's the way it should be.

To start - raiding is a team effort, disc will be fine there in their niche.

The only people who watch healing numbers and think higher=better are clueless dps. Healing numbers are largely irrelevent and I don't care for them at all.

I do care greatly for the fact you feel completely helpless in 5man mythics. I also care very much about the fact that I'll never be able to get as high a mythic as other classes of comparable skill level for no other reason then bad class mechanics.

[Ulimn]

I spent days reading through posts on this forum but the opinions are so different about disc my head almost hurts.

Do you think that (especially in light of the recent buffs) disc will be useful in raids and mythic+ dungeons? Is it "safe" to choose disc as main?
I like the new playstyle but I don't want to be a hindrance to my guild (semi-casual raiding).

The thing that bothers me the most is that players make mistakes and I don't see how I could "compensate" as a disc.

[cruxxy]

I spent days reading through posts on this forum but the opinions are so different about disc my head almost hurts.

Do you think that (especially in light of the recent buffs) disc will be useful in raids and mythic+ dungeons? Is it "safe" to choose disc as main?
I like the new playstyle but I don't want to be a hindrance to my guild (semi-casual raiding).

The thing that bothers me the most is that players make mistakes and I don't see how I could "compensate" as a disc.

Yes the answer is yes. If you like the play style, play it and play it well and enjoy. You can find good examples of disc in high mythic dungeons and raids from legion beta.

[Zyrox]

myself i hate the new rogues, i hate everything about them, used to love assassination rogue but now they made it into feral 2.0 with all the bleeds...

[Seraph87]

To start - raiding is a team effort, disc will be fine there in their niche.

The only people who watch healing numbers and think higher=better are clueless dps. Healing numbers are largely irrelevent and I don't care for them at all.

I do care greatly for the fact you feel completely helpless in 5man mythics. I also care very much about the fact that I'll never be able to get as high a mythic as other classes of comparable skill level for no other reason then bad class mechanics.

I have had nothing but a great experience in mythics with the new disc priest. I healed them just fine in 665 ilvl gear when i first started. I havent felt helpless at all. I have 2 great oh shit buttons in leap of faith and pain suppression, and I use them all the time. Whats the purpose of cooldowns if you dont use them? Granted, I have not been lucky enough to play on beta to see the higher mythic+ levels, but i have watched many streams and videos and talked to numerous people on the healer discord who state that disc can handle its own just fine in mythic+ 10.

Now will a disc priest be the #1 choice for realm first achieve push? Absolutely not, but neither will my holy pally...which i am completely okay with. Im not pushing for any of that stuff. I love the play style, I can successfully heal my group just fine and can experience all the content while doing something I enjoy. I guess i have a much more optimistic perspective than you do.


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[constantduty]

[QUOTE=Goshko;42094751]No it's not hard and it's not fun. It's extremely simple and the challenge in raiding is knowing the boss you're fighting in depth, not the spec.

As for 5 mans - yes the lol smite or lol bubble is gone. Now is the time of lol shadowmend. And it's even worse then before.[QUOTE]

Smite and bubble spam weren't restricted to 5 mans, get real...

I think it's fun. If you don't think it's fun let us know why. Is it not fun because you think you can't swing mythic+ dungeons? Could that just be you?

What has really changed? You have to know the fights. You're not going to top meters in farm content with your friends and family raid team. If you're doing anything other than that content you'll switch specs to do what's best for your team.

Seriously, "cool absorbs"..."bad mechanics"...the trolling is real. "Will the spec survive legion?" Who knows? If only I could spam PoH with autocrit and constant DA procs again! Quick! Let me whisper the raid lead to make sure they arrange groups solely on my behalf!

[Goshko]

I have had nothing but a great experience in mythics with the new disc priest. I healed them just fine in 665 ilvl gear when i first started. I havent felt helpless at all. I have 2 great oh shit buttons in leap of faith and pain suppression, and I use them all the time. Whats the purpose of cooldowns if you dont use them? Granted, I have not been lucky enough to play on beta to see the higher mythic+ levels, but i have watched many streams and videos and talked to numerous people on the healer discord who state that disc can handle its own just fine in mythic+ 10.

Now will a disc priest be the #1 choice for realm first achieve push? Absolutely not, but neither will my holy pally...which i am completely okay with. Im not pushing for any of that stuff. I love the play style, I can successfully heal my group just fine and can experience all the content while doing something I enjoy. I guess i have a much more optimistic perspective than you do.

I have, that's why I'm keeping to a more realistic perspective.

But to each their own, If you're happy being capped at "it's fine" regardless of how much effort you put in, more power to you.

[Simulacrum]

To start - raiding is a team effort, disc will be fine there in their niche.

The only people who watch healing numbers and think higher=better are clueless dps. Healing numbers are largely irrelevent and I don't care for them at all.

No, banal platitudes aside, this is wrong. In its simplest form, more HPS from the healers translates into more DPS from everyone else. You'd think this would be really obvious to a disc, whose DPS contribution to the raid scales with the HPS of themselves and the other healers in it, and whose gimmick is that you should bring them when you need a little more HPS but not enough to justify a whole 'nother healer. Shit, it's a recurring complaint of healers that as healers get stronger what happens is you just bring less of them because now fewer people are needed to heal the same amount of damage taken, allowing you to bring more DPS instead. You need to really be living in your own little world to not think that HPS is extremely important. Y'know, it's why you're there. In the raid. Doing your part of the 'team effort'. You're there to bring HPS; as much of it as possible.

And I wouldn't say disc is weak in 5 mans. It's just boring... and the gameplay is incongruous with the 'class' (spec?) fantasy, which is just bad design. Y'know, I don't think about spamming shadowmend when I'm described as a spec that heals through DPS. Atonement is pretty crap in 5 mans, outside of mild damage of the kind where atonement serves basically the same purpose as any other healer's hots anyway. It's just dumb to have a mechanic designed to be good in raids not scale differently in 5 mans. It should translate more of your damage into healing in 5 mans than it does in raids, or something. Maybe scale with the number of atonements active... but now I've digressed into wishful class redesign territory.

[Deleted]

No, banal platitudes aside, this is wrong. In its simplest form, more HPS from the healers translates into more DPS from everyone else. You'd think this would be really obvious to a disc, whose DPS contribution to the raid scales with the HPS of themselves and the other healers in it, and whose gimmick is that you should bring them when you need a little more HPS but not enough to justify a whole 'nother healer. Shit, it's a recurring complaint of healers that as healers get stronger what happens is you just bring less of them because now fewer people are needed to heal the same amount of damage taken, allowing you to bring more DPS instead. You need to really be living in your own little world to not think that HPS is extremely important. Y'know, it's why you're there. In the raid. Doing your part of the 'team effort'. You're there to bring HPS; as much of it as possible.

And I wouldn't say disc is weak in 5 mans. It's just boring... and the gameplay is incongruous with the 'class' (spec?) fantasy, which is just bad design. Y'know, I don't think about spamming shadowmend when I'm described as a spec that heals through DPS. Atonement is pretty crap in 5 mans, outside of mild damage of the kind where atonement serves basically the same purpose as any other healer's hots anyway. It's just dumb to have a mechanic designed to be good in raids not scale differently in 5 mans. It should translate more of your damage into healing in 5 mans than it does in raids, or something. Maybe scale with the number of atonements active... but now I've digressed into wishful class redesign territory.

Nope. You are there to keep the team alive. If you can do that and contribute dps at the same time you are a lot more valuable then someone who can give more hps.
Also if you are healing and nothing else and have enough mana and spare time you should put in some dps as well, regardless of spec.

[Tyraena]

Nope. You are there to keep the team alive. If you can do that and contribute dps at the same time you are a lot more valuable then someone who can give more hps.
Also if you are healing and nothing else and have enough mana and spare time you should put in some dps as well, regardless of spec.

All sorts of this.

I really hate disc at first when 7.x launched. But as I learned the intricacies, and played a bit in beta, it grew on my. It wasn't all bubble and autoheal anymore, I actually had to pay attention, know the mechanics and the differences in what my tank was, and control where my heals were going again.

I really think the bulk of the folks who dislike it are the ones who loved looking good on the meters while just facerolling dps bubbles except for burst phases.

[Simulacrum]

Nope. You are there to keep the team alive. If you can do that and contribute dps at the same time you are a lot more valuable then someone who can give more hps.
Also if you are healing and nothing else and have enough mana and spare time you should put in some dps as well, regardless of spec.

You really need to work on your reading comprehension...

[Deleted]

You really need to work on your reading comprehension...

You literally said that more HPS makes you a better party member which will lead new players down a wrong mindset.

Being an effective healer is keeping your group alive and the better you are the more you will be able to do that as well as contributing to the overall dps of the group.

We need to get rid of healers who think they need to keep all party/raid members on 100%+ hp all the time. It's a waste of time that could be used to down the bosses faster.

[Simulacrum]

You literally said that more HPS makes you a better party member which will lead new players down a wrong mindset.

Being an effective healer is keeping your group alive and the better you are the more you will be able to do that as well as contributing to the overall dps of the group.

We need to get rid of healers who think they need to keep all party/raid members on 100%+ hp all the time. It's a waste of time that could be used to down the bosses faster.

Yeah, you need to be pretty stupid to interpret what I wrote as saying that you should waste your mana spamming overheals to keep people at 100% health instead of contributing something useful when there's no more healing to do, especially considering the whole point of my post was that more HPS is good because it gives you more time and opportunity to do things that aren't healing. I didn't think it would be necessary to also explicitly state it in plain text, as that struck me as completely redundant and, to be frank, I have a problem being excessively verbose so I try to make an effort to keep from reiterating the same point over and over again just phrased differently. But I see I made an error there... my bad, I guess...

[Deleted]

Yeah, you need to be pretty stupid to interpret what I wrote as saying that you should waste your mana spamming overheals to keep people at 100% health instead of contributing something useful when there's no more healing to do, especially considering the whole point of my post was that more HPS is good because it gives you more time and opportunity to do things that aren't healing. I didn't think it would be necessary to also explicitly state it in plain text, as that struck me as completely redundant and, to be frank, I have a problem being excessively verbose so I try to make an effort to keep from reiterating the same point over and over again just phrased differently. But I see I made an error there... my bad, I guess...

Alot of new players use these threads as guidelines. So when you state one thing you cannot expect them to read something quiet different out of it.

Calling people stupid is not going to make anyone take you more serious either.

[Simulacrum]

Alot of new players use these threads as guidelines. So when you state one thing you cannot expect them to read something quiet different out of it.

Calling people stupid is not going to make anyone take you more serious either.

Really? You... uh, you think that a lot of new players read random threads with topics like "I don't like the new disc" for advice on just the most basic stuff when it comes to healing? For real? That... that doesn't strike you as compeltely absurd? I mean, is that what you would do, like, instead of looking up a guide? Hm... I... I suppose it might be... man, what am I even doing carrying on this waste of a space of a conversation with you...

[Ulimn]

Really? You... uh, you think that a lot of new players read random threads with topics like "I don't like the new disc" for advice on just the most basic stuff when it comes to healing? For real? That... that doesn't strike you as compeltely absurd? I mean, is that what you would do, like, instead of looking up a guide? Hm... I... I suppose it might be... man, what am I even doing carrying on this waste of a space of a conversation with you...

New players is one thing, but there are non-native english speakers here who may misinterpret what you say.

Btw I think the HPS is important as long as you fulfill your duty (to not let your appointed teammates die).