Why doesn't Sylvanas get hate like Garrosh did?

[Deleted]

That thread looks written form alliance player ...
As selfrespected horde player i like Sylvanas because unlike Garrosh she honor the current horde not trying to make new one and broke aliances with every one

[DarkTZeratul]

Gilneans arent innocent, they cast their lot in with the alliance and were trying to take over silverpine forest aka HORDE TERRITORY during a wartime battle.

Gilneas didn't give two shits about the Alliance or Silverpine Forest until the Forsaken attacked them (under the orders of Garrosh, as has been pointed out earlier). They were the epitome of neutral up until that point, having given the Alliance the finger and hid beyond a wall more than twenty years earlier.

[Bosen]

Sylvannas has been around longer and is less obnoxious and unreasonable than Garrosh was. She has redeemable qualities.

[Deleted]

Nobody in the alliance is innocent.

[Deleted]

She is a tragic anti-hero. Alot of people appreciate her story and feel they understand her.

[Flurryfang]

Garrosh was always reckless and a warmonger. Ever since we saw him in Wrath. There was always an aggression to him.

Sure he was always the aggresser, but he also showed honor. One of his main character features was his connection to his father and how much his life had affected his own. He found both pride and warning in his fathers actions, yet what happend? He did the exact thing, which his father did. Accepted power, which doomed his people. And during this entire downfall, he betrayed both honor and brothers of war. So the war-hero mentality is thrown completly out the window, which is bad character writing in my opnion.

Why he suddenly becomes so power hungry and careless about his own soldiers is never shown. There is not shown an evolution in character or any event, which might change him drasticly. So that is bad character writing.

[DarkTZeratul]

Sure he was always the aggresser, but he also showed honor. One of his main character features was his connection to his father and how much his life had affected his own. He found both pride and warning in his fathers actions, yet what happend? He did the exact thing, which his father did. Accepted power, which doomed his people. And during this entire downfall, he betrayed both honor and brothers of war. So the war-hero mentality is thrown completly out the window, which is bad character writing in my opnion.

It's not bad writing, it's tragic irony. Garrosh took the wrong lesson from Grommash; in his mind, the only thing Grommash did wrong was drinking the demon blood. That he was doing the exact same thing with the sha never entered his mind; they weren't demons, therefore they weren't bad.

[justflayin]

The Sylvanas hate is never ending. Did you even see the forums after the broken shore cinematic?

[Flurryfang]

It's not bad writing, it's tragic irony. Garrosh took the wrong lesson from Grommash; in his mind, the only thing Grommash did wrong was drinking the demon blood. That he was doing the exact same thing with the sha never entered his mind; they weren't demons, therefore they weren't bad.

It is bad writing, when you don't show how the irony came to. Having a character jump from being disgusted by his fathers action to welcome the same corruption, which put shame upon his family name, without having some character changing event or process happening, makes for a bad story. Its not like he did these bad things because he wanted to battle the bad things in the world (like demons or the alliance), but he did because he wanted power: the boring and dumb reason for people to turn evil. If we had been shown that Garrosh wanted to cleanse Outland and Azeroth of demonic magic no matter the cost, then we would have been given a reason behind his desperate grasp for power. Yet the story is simplified to something childish: Garrosh wants to battle the alliance, it is going pretty well, yet he wants more, so when he has the chance to get the power of the sha, he betrays many of his own people and destroys parts of the horde just to get it... But why? Its not like he needed it and before he has been more then happy with his current state of power.

Reason is what is missing in the Garrosh storyline. He does stuff, but there is given no hint or shown no evolution of character, which would explain or give reason to these actions.

[announced]

Gilneas didn't give two shits about the Alliance or Silverpine Forest until the Forsaken attacked them (under the orders of Garrosh, as has been pointed out earlier). They were the epitome of neutral up until that point, having given the Alliance the finger and hid beyond a wall more than twenty years earlier.

when playing through the last of the quests on the worgen starting zone it looks like your character ends up joining the alliance by way of the night elves, and then traveling to stormwind.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Quest:...theran_Village
"Are you ready to set sail, <name>? Your people have been granted shelter in the lands of the kaldorei.

Do not worry, worgen. Your people will get a chance to fight for Gilneas again. This time, with the full strength of the Alliance."

[DarkTZeratul]

It is bad writing, when you don't show how the irony came to. Having a character jump from being disgusted by his fathers action to welcome the same corruption, which put shame upon his family name, without having some character changing event or process happening, makes for a bad story.

But it's not the same corruption. Not literally. Garrosh was a hateful warmonger who, in the end, resorting to unspeakable means to achieve his brutal ends, but he never drank the demon blood. The one line he never crossed was allying with the Burning Legion, and in his mind that was the only line that mattered. Grommash didn't bring shame and dishonor upon him for being brutal, or savage, or a warmonger, or any of the things that Garrosh could rightfully be accused of. The only thing he did wrong was drinking the blood of Mannoroth, which is why when Garrosh went back in time that was the only thing he changed. Now Grommash is pure, now Grommash can lead the Iron Horde to glory and honor and victory because he doesn't have the dishonorable taint of fel magic.

when playing through the last of the quests on the worgen starting zone it looks like your character ends up joining the alliance by way of the night elves, and then traveling to stormwind.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Quest:...theran_Village
"Are you ready to set sail, <name>? Your people have been granted shelter in the lands of the kaldorei.

Do not worry, worgen. Your people will get a chance to fight for Gilneas again. This time, with the full strength of the Alliance."

Which is after they abandon Gilneas BECAUSE THE FORSAKEN HAVE CONQUERED IT.

[enragedgorilla]

She did far worse in her life right? I just don't get how people could hate Garrosh so bad but give Sylvanas a pass.

She invaded Gilneas and killed a lot of innocent people.
She experimented on innocent people.
She spread a plague in Southshore killing innocent people.
She used the plague to create Undead.

Why is all this brushed off like it's not some evil ass shit? But Garrosh was bashed for boming Theramore?

I have not really followed lore outside WoW but from what I've seen of Theramore when I played on Alliance they had tons of military Vehicles and supplies there. They had a War marched path from it to The Barrens. I think it seemed pretty justified as just a WoW player perspective.

I thought Pre-MoP Garrosh was one of the most badass brought up characters Blizzard had ever developed inside WoW.

Anything past Cata I tend to just ignore since Blizzard did the biggest 180 character development turn I've ever seen in my life. It made no sense outside of people crying that Green Jesus was gone and Garrosh took his place.

Garrosh was the embodiment of the kid who was weak in school,grew up became a Bully in HS .
Sylvanas cares about her people and serves them,protects them ,does for them everything she can.
Garrosh only cared about himself and stepping from the shadow of his father.
MoP/Post mop anyway.

[Katchii]

You're kidding right? She gets tons of hate. Quite a bit of it deserved.

I can't speak for everyone , I personally like Sylvanas as a character but won't deny that she's done some fucked up stuff, but I think the Sylvanas hate is directed AT Sylvanas, as a character. With Garrosh I think the hate is directed at the fact that he exists as a character and how badly they think he was written not at Garrosh himself, if that makes sense.

[Sandrox]

Sylvanas cares about her people and serves them,protects them ,does for them everything she can.

No she doesnt, her short story makes it pretty clear she sees them as expendable fodder to protect her from death.

[Tyze]

Because she's hot.

[DarkTZeratul]

No she doesnt, her short story makes it pretty clear she sees them as expendable fodder to protect her from death.

Expendable fodder? You clearly didn't read the ending of the story:

I was once like you, Garrosh," she answered, her voice quiet and steady, loud enough only for the warchief to hear. "Those who served me were tools. Arrows in my quiver."

The army of undead that surrounded and protected the Dark Lady was still hers, body and soul. But they were no longer arrows in her quiver, not anymore. They were a bulwark against the infinite. They were to be used wisely, and no fool orc would squander them while she still walked the world of the living.


She may be using them, but she sees them as anything but expendable.

[xuros]

Because players like boobs. Cold dead boobs.

...Oh, wait

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Sure he was always the aggresser, but he also showed honor. One of his main character features was his connection to his father and how much his life had affected his own. He found both pride and warning in his fathers actions, yet what happend? He did the exact thing, which his father did. Accepted power, which doomed his people. And during this entire downfall, he betrayed both honor and brothers of war. So the war-hero mentality is thrown completly out the window, which is bad character writing in my opnion.

Why he suddenly becomes so power hungry and careless about his own soldiers is never shown. There is not shown an evolution in character or any event, which might change him drasticly. So that is bad character writing.

Which doesn't change the fact he was always super aggressive. Even at the end of Cata he didn't seem to care much about innocent civillians of Theramore. If it weren't for Baine's defiance there would of been a lot more casualties. He was also more ok with fucking up the elements for his war effort and such. If there was any progression, it was in what else he was willing to do. His main objective at least in his mind a big superpower for the Orcs and not failing like they tried back in the First War.

He didn't really change all that much. He didn't resort to demons and such but he certainly did things the demons could do just as much. Which is fine if that's where his character is supposed to go, I'm ok with it.


I don't know about Sylvanas and if she's being a *better person*. I just HOPE it's not Garrosh 2.0. I personally would not care too much but..I know these forums would implode cause rage.

[GennGreymane]

I hate Sylvanas..... did you not see my cinematic where I troll her?

[kail]

I don't know about Sylvanas and if she's being a *better person*. I just HOPE it's not Garrosh 2.0. I personally would not care too much but..I know these forums would implode cause rage.

From the looks of it, Jaina is about to take that mantle.