What is Sylvanas doing in the Stormheim cinematic?

[Deleted]

It doesn't seem like Sylvanas actually wants that.

She specifically says in the cinematic that the Val'kyr themselves belong to her. I guess that could be a roundabout way of saying "I want to become one" or something (And I could actually see them doing that to give her some nonsensical redemption like Illidan and Kerrigan), but from just the cinematic and the Stormheim quests it seems as if she just wants to be able to have as many Val'kyr as possible.

She doesn't want it because she doesn't know if it is possible but if it is then she will do it, she will do anything even becoming an immortal Val'kyr in order to avoid death. Hell I am pretty sure if she meets Illidan the first question she is gonna ask him is how did he survive. We still don't know how Odyn made the Val'kyr or if it turns out to be the cure for Sylvanas and the Forsaken ...the hype is real

[Magnagarde]

Look, Sylvy fans. I agree with you that she's not "evil" in the sense that the Legion or Lich King was.
That being said...every morally questionable thing you admit can be laid at her feet? That makes her a character beyond redemption in my eyes. I'm not making her to be worse than she is. I'm saying that her as-is is bad enough.

She was not as evil as the Lich King was because the Lich King's powers and the powers of the Scourge were out of her grasp. However, each time she acquired one of the Scourge powers/technologies, she used them just as much as the Lich King and his Scourge did.

As soon as her undead perfected a plague formula, they started using it on the living, just like Cult of the Damned did in Lordaeron when the Scourge broke out. As soon as she got the Val'kyr bound to her will, she started using them to resurrect the dead into her undead armies, just like the Lich King did. As she progressively acquired technology and powers that the Lich King had, she started using them with the same frequency and efficiency.

Ultimately, she did to whatever was left of Lordaeron, Stromgarde and Gilneas the same thing Arthas did to her and her people in Quel'thalas.

The only difference between the Lich King and Sylvanas is the opus of power at either's disposal. Compare what either character did when they had an equal amount of power/technology at their disposal and the result will be that both did the same.

Greymane's actions portrayed in this video undoubtedly earn him the title of an Alliance hero. He avenged all the Alliance kingdoms that suffered at the hands of the freewilled undead.

[Mehrunes]

That's one way to look at it (though it's very headcanon-y at the moment).
It just doesn't do anything to "redeem" her in my eyes.

Look, Sylvy fans. I agree with you that she's not "evil" in the sense that the Legion or Lich King was.
That being said...every morally questionable thing you admit can be laid at her feet? That makes her a character beyond redemption in my eyes. I'm not making her to be worse than she is. I'm saying that her as-is is bad enough.

Who said anything about redeeming anyone in what you quoted?

Stromgarde wasn't part of the Kingdom of Lordaeron, and she had designs on that.

Lordaeron the continent. And she had Galen, i.e. the last ruler.

[Disreali]

What does 1 on 1 combat have to do with being a tactician?

She underestimated Genn and failed to protect the objective, which was the means to make her practically immortal. She sas so focused on the idea that Genn wanted to kill her that she let what was potentially the one thing to make her and her "race"'s immortality a sure thing slip through her fingers.

[Mehrunes]

All this arguing is interesting but we're missing the most important question here: for which hellish reason Genn goes around half-naked?

Yeah, that was weird. Most likely rule of cool thing, just like the ridiculous jump of Sylvanas. That beats shieldboarding Legolas.

[Deleted]

All this arguing is interesting but we're missing the most important question here: for which hellish reason Genn goes around half-naked?

Stealth

Genn the wolf ninja

[Zulkhan]

She could have killed Genn, but as some point out she let him go, knowing that if she did it would escalate the war between Horde and Alliance. That was very considerate of her... if she were selfish she would have killed him while he was limping away.

Baseless stretch at most. Sylvanas' attention was entirely caught by the realization that Genn screwed her plan utterly. She looks where Eyir was and clench her fist in rage/frustration.

[Mehrunes]

Stealth

Genn the wolf ninja

I suppose a long-ass cloak he usually wears is indeed not the most stealthy outfit, but what about the pants? Removing them wouldn't have as much of an impact, but it would still give some bonus to sneakiness.

[Magnagarde]

By having Genn do this, Blizzard also saved her actually. Whenever a character becomes too powerful, Blizzard kills them off or nerfs them beyond recognition. This might open a path for a redemption story, although they'd need two or three expansions to redeem her.

[Graden]

All this arguing is interesting but we're missing the most important question here: for which hellish reason Genn goes around half-naked?

He was not half-naked before going inside, he was wearing his robe and screamed ''for gilneas'' while charging before the cinematic took place(Alliance side).
So his robe wat probably torn appart the moment he transformed. So that means that Genn must have thousands of closets filled with the same robe xD

[Disreali]

Who said anything about redeeming anyone in what you quoted?

I'm speaking more broadly. That Sylvy is still someone I consider villainous based entirely on her actions that can definitively be laid at her feet.

Lordaeron the continent. And she had Galen, i.e. the last ruler.

Well he ended up being so useful :P

I mean the argument that the Forsaken hold a claim to being a successor state to the Kingdom of Lordaeron makes sense in a way, but Strongarde exists outside of that. And having Galen really didn't strengthen her claim to the kingdom itself, considering the vast majority of Stromgarde's remaining population was very much pro-Alliance and alive.

[Mehrunes]

Baseless stretch at most. Sylvanas' attention was entirely caught by the realization that Genn screwed her plan utterly. She looks where Eyir was and clench her fist in rage/frustration.

True, but as Arrashi pointed out earlier, her not killing him in rage over this is jRPG level of writing. Genn was slowly limping away with who knows what kind of shit spreading in his wound and the rage issues Sylvanas just limits herself to clenching her fist?

He was not half-naked before going inside, he was wearing his robe and screamed ''for gilneas'' while charging before the cinematic took place(Alliance side).
So his robe wat probably torn appart the moment he transformed. So that means that Genn must have thousands of closets filled with the same robe xD

He did have his robe on at Broken Shore though. Hmm, so I suppose Genn transformed, his robe was torn apart and he thought to himself "I must look presentable to those demons, I'm gonna swoon them with this outfit"?

[Graden]

True, but as Arrashi pointed out earlier, her not killing him in rage over this is jRPG level of writing. Genn was slowly limping away with who knows what kind of shit spreading in his wound and the rage issues Sylvanas just limits herself to clenching her fist?

That's true, Genn was even moving slowly, and If I recall correctly he was found unconscious by Gilnean forces later. Plot armor at its best I guess.

[Mehrunes]

I mean the argument that the Forsaken hold a claim to being a successor state to the Kingdom of Lordaeron makes sense in a way, but Strongarde exists outside of that. And having Galen really didn't strengthen her claim to the kingdom itself, considering the vast majority of Stromgarde's remaining population was very much pro-Alliance and alive.

Ehh, Horde killed tons of people on their way to Galen in vanilla. If they could get to the grave of crown prince, they could get to the rest. And even if it was just one Galen Horde adventurers wiped most of what remained on his orders anyway.

[Magnagarde]

That arrow surely had to be coated with poison or something of that sort, potentially altering or killing him later on. If it comes to that, then at least his sacrifice won't have been for nothing.

[KrazyK923]

Genn survives, Alliance players are explicitly told he's recovering.

[Traveler Voltin]

That arrow surely had to be coated with poison or something of that sort, potentially altering or killing him later on. If it comes to that, then at least his sacrifice won't have been for nothing.

its just a setback.
Genn won a battle but the war still continues.

[Magnagarde]

I'm speaking more broadly. That Sylvy is still someone I consider villainous based entirely on her actions that can definitively be laid at her feet.


Well he ended up being so useful :P

I mean the argument that the Forsaken hold a claim to being a successor state to the Kingdom of Lordaeron makes sense in a way, but Strongarde exists outside of that. And having Galen really didn't strengthen her claim to the kingdom itself, considering the vast majority of Stromgarde's remaining population was very much pro-Alliance and alive.

Saying that the Forsaken have the right to occupy Lordaeron as they do right now, just because they were it's citizen during their lifetime, is like saying that a resurrected king Thoradin deserves to rule half the Eastern Kingdoms.

An undead high elf can't have any claims on Lordaeron.

[Zulkhan]

He was not half-naked before going inside, he was wearing his robe and screamed ''for gilneas'' while charging before the cinematic took place(Alliance side).
So his robe wat probably torn appart the moment he transformed. So that means that Genn must have thousands of closets filled with the same robe xD

Oh I see. Guess he kinda went full Wolverine before the cinematic kicked in.

True, but as Arrashi pointed out earlier, her not killing him in rage over this is jRPG level of writing. Genn was slowly limping away with who knows what kind of shit spreading in his wound and the rage issues Sylvanas just limits herself to clenching her fist?

It seemed more frustration than actual rage at first. Like she couldn't think at anything else but her precious chance slipping away from her hands.

I think it would have made sense for her to turn around and shoot arrows in rabid rage right after she started clenching her fist, where the rage clearly kicked in, but since the attention wasn't focused on Genn anymore at that point, it's hard to say if he would have been an easy target or would have just reacted to Sylvanas' rage by going Worgen and rushing out of the room.

[Magnagarde]

He was not half-naked before going inside, he was wearing his robe and screamed ''for gilneas'' while charging before the cinematic took place(Alliance side).
So his robe wat probably torn appart the moment he transformed. So that means that Genn must have thousands of closets filled with the same robe xD

Genn Greymane be like /2 LF maxed out tailor