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  1. #1
    Deleted

    Shadow pvp at 110

    How is it?

    I avoided looking at too much from the beta as I wanted to make my own mind up. I've played some BG's as shadow and some as my ret pala/balance druid and the difference is pretty shocking tbh.

    Shadow just seems to be getting melted by a single melee even through dispersion and even in a strong multi-dot scenario my druid just seems to be better [vamp touch seems to do barely more damage than sunfire etc. and comes with a cast time].

    But on the other hand the honor talents for shadow do look strong compared to what my other classes get access to. So does the experience get any better at 110 or should I just find a different class for casual pvp?

  2. #2
    Shadow is one of the strongest if not THE strongest caster at the moment. PvP-wise.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Attractive View Post
    Shadow is one of the strongest if not THE strongest caster at the moment. PvP-wise.
    In what sense? Just dedicated rot comps?

    Can you clarify

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Attractive View Post
    Shadow is one of the strongest if not THE strongest caster at the moment. PvP-wise.
    *in 3s. Everywhere else it is either mediocre or pretty much unplayable (2s, duels)
    <inactive>

  5. #5
    Deleted
    The problem is that the voidform mechanic is more of a pve thing than pvp, and the same problem goes for balance druid, elemental shaman and any type of builder/spender spec.

    On the other hand you have braindead rogue/feral who just have to make combos (that are increasingly easy to max out after each expansion) and perform the same type of damage+ mobility+no cast+defensive CC and stunlocks+kicks all around.

    I'm not saying shadow priest is bad in pvp, its pretty strong, but its good when you get assisted or when you afk turret. Any good rogue/warrior/dk can really make you miserable if they know what they are doing. But its pvp according to the clueless Holinka, all for melees or hunters.

    The only casters with a decent standing are mages and shadow priests, but each have their own issues compared to melee classes

    - - - Updated - - -

    You might want to take talents like the one giving your shadow word pain a chance to make the next mindblast instant, its pretty bursty when you multidot. Elemental shaman have to play the same way to even do something outside of turret mode. Yeah give all the mobility, defensives, CCs to melees but lets say casters don't need this because they are ranged...."yeah but ...Holinka...you do realize gapclosers are still a thing right? Have you seen sub rogue or warrior? No? Why are you still lead designer in pvp then?"

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Theed View Post
    *in 3s. Everywhere else it is either mediocre or pretty much unplayable (2s, duels)
    How about battlegrounds?

    I'm feeling pretty weak tbh, rogues and warriors just toy with me - do the honor talents do anything about it?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombina View Post
    How about battlegrounds?

    I'm feeling pretty weak tbh, rogues and warriors just toy with me - do the honor talents do anything about it?
    PvP talents help.

    Shadow has become one of the hardest if not the hardest specs to play in pvp. BUT the potential is huge. The spec has a very high skill cap and is hard to master. Try to get Void Shield and Void Origins, if a melee is on you try to fake cast and get some distance with body and soul when you can.

    The self heal with Void Shield is huge but we are the squishiest spec. Line up Void Torrent with Vampiric Embrace and Void Shield when your target is stunned or far away or has no interrupt and you should go from 30% to 80-100% if uninterrupted.

    We are decent with a healer and peels.
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  8. #8
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    As it stands, if you have multiple melee training you ontop of maybe a mage or lock cs, it is pretty difficult to build Insanity. The only Insanity builder that is instant is SW:P and Insight procs if you're speccing it, but Insight doesn't seem too great for spread pressure anyways. I've been taking San'layn and PI to line up with VF and have crazy dot pressure, especially if you're not focused. The problem I'm running into is getting VT and SW:P up on as many targets as possible before VF, but that becomes difficult when you're whether you juke or not due to the short SW:P duration. No doubt spriest has incredible spread pressure, similar to WoD UA lock. However, we are extremely squishy with little mobility and limited instant casts outside of VF to help build Insanity..

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Shraug View Post
    As it stands, if you have multiple melee training you ontop of maybe a mage or lock cs, it is pretty difficult to build Insanity. The only Insanity builder that is instant is SW:P and Insight procs if you're speccing it, but Insight doesn't seem too great for spread pressure anyways. I've been taking San'layn and PI to line up with VF and have crazy dot pressure, especially if you're not focused. The problem I'm running into is getting VT and SW:P up on as many targets as possible before VF, but that becomes difficult when you're whether you juke or not due to the short SW:P duration. No doubt spriest has incredible spread pressure, similar to WoD UA lock. However, we are extremely squishy with little mobility and limited instant casts outside of VF to help build Insanity..
    If you have trouble getting insanity, try to get the honor talent Initiation and combine it with Auspicious Spirits and just dot everything.

    Driven to Madness also provides insanity, but has been stealth nerfed. The patchnote was removed last week so everyone thought they reverted it, but the nerf is live.

    It no longer generates insanity in voidform and does not generate insanity from damage over time effects.
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  10. #10
    The Patient Shraug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theed View Post
    If you have trouble getting insanity, try to get the honor talent Initiation and combine it with Auspicious Spirits and just dot everything.

    Driven to Madness also provides insanity, but has been stealth nerfed. The patchnote was removed last week so everyone thought they reverted it, but the nerf is live.

    It no longer generates insanity in voidform and does not generate insanity from damage over time effects.
    I feel like Void Origins is just too good to give up most of the time. I can see the Initiation and AS synergy, I'll have to try that.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shraug View Post
    I feel like Void Origins is just too good to give up most of the time. I can see the Initiation and AS synergy, I'll have to try that.
    You are right. Void Origins is mandatory, especially after the "to the ground" nerf of Driven to Madness.
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  12. #12
    Deleted
    I'm switching to disc, first time since I started playing almost 10 years ago.

    Im just not feeling shadow right now; the class fantasy is almost totally gone, everything we can do other classes seem to be able to do better, spec has gone back to being defenceless vs melee and I hate the artifact look.

    Really disappointed with how shadow looks this expansion so far, I'll take another look after I grind out some more honor talents.
    Last edited by mmoce84939a4e2; 2016-09-01 at 10:48 PM.

  13. #13
    I keep hearing from everyone that spriest is really good. I personally am getting DESTORYED in bgs. I'd consider myself a pretty good PvPer as well (2200+ every season I've played). Pre-patch I was doing very well but if any melee or a hunter engage me I feel like I can't do anything. That being said I'm only honor level 4.

  14. #14
    Spriest is really strong, when is has support and is not getting tunneled. If you have an ally who can peel enemies off you, you will destroy them. If you are alone, and have anything melee attacking your face, you are going to be screwed.

    SPriest is good at dealing damage and pressure, but not good at surviving when put under pressure.

  15. #15
    The spec has awesome damage, spread/rot and single-target burst, and its party support is top notch. It's also got some really potent general utility like dispels/mass dispels. I love the way the mana system works with it, feels really nice.

    It's just horribly, horribly weak to melee. I've never felt so vulnerable/disadvantaged.

    This works out well for some pvpers because when supported by dedicated teammates and healers, the spec really shines and looks really strong. But in casual pvp when you can't count on help, when you don't have anyone you can rely on, it feels absolutely horrible. This sucks for players like me who only do unrated bgs.

    Shadow desperately needs the ability to trade away some of its much-lauded party support for some ability to defend itself.

    For example:

    "Your Power Word: Shield can no longer be cast on other players, but is 40% more effective and makes your next cast-time spell instant cast"

    "Your Shadow Mend is half as strong when cast on other players, but is instant cast"

    Call it something like Lonely Shadows, bam.

    There are a number of other things that would start bringing the spec together as something that isn't borderline unplayable vs melee. Things like, for example, making Void Torrent similar to Bladestorm in that it makes you immune to interrupts and all loss-of-control abilities for the duration would be really nice. Why not? It's your big Artifact power that the whole spec is built around, why should it be stoppable?
    Last edited by Annesh; 2016-09-02 at 01:01 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Annesh View Post
    The spec has awesome damage, spread/rot and single-target burst, and its party support is top notch. It's also got some really potent general utility like dispels/mass dispels. I love the way the mana system works with it, feels really nice.

    It's just horribly, horribly weak to melee. I've never felt so vulnerable/disadvantaged.

    This works out well for some pvpers because when supported by dedicated teammates and healers, the spec really shines and looks really strong. But in casual pvp when you can't count on help, when you don't have anyone you can rely on, it feels absolutely horrible. This sucks for players like me who only do unrated bgs.

    Shadow desperately needs the ability to trade away some of its much-lauded party support for some ability to defend itself.

    For example:

    "Your Power Word: Shield can no longer be cast on other players, but is 40% more effective and makes your next cast-time spell instant cast"

    "Your Shadow Mend is half as strong when cast on other players, but is instant cast"

    Call it something like Lonely Shadows, bam.

    There are a number of other things that would start bringing the spec together as something that isn't borderline unplayable vs melee. Things like, for example, making Void Torrent similar to Bladestorm in that it makes you immune to interrupts and all loss-of-control abilities for the duration would be really nice. Why not? It's your big Artifact power that the whole spec is built around, why should it be stoppable?
    These are great ideas!

  17. #17
    Deleted
    I don't know why they removed the damage reduction buff of shadow form, now its seems like shadowform is just an aesthetic thing while moonkins still have bonuses with their form. I don't get it.....

    - - - Updated - - -

    I mean why not add either the 15% damage reduction or the bonus armor? And add some interaction like giving a chance for your spells to be instant when you are hit by melee just like moonkin. We don't have mobility, defensives are average (shield is rather weak and you cannot always multidot VT to selfheal), so can we at least have some DR like before?

  18. #18
    It would be prob a bit too strong. Better defence depends on less utility or less damage.
    In theorie we are fine. We have huge self heal so everything is good. But in reality you need to cast and keep up dots or do damage or cast heals to get this heals. If you are stunned, interrupted you wont be able to do such things. I think we need a reduction in self healing and shoud be reduced in (melee) damage taken.

  19. #19
    Deleted
    I've had a go at 110 with the first line of honor talents, they somewhat help but not as much as I'd thought.

    It definitely feels like we got pruned by a ton while other classes got to keep their fun stuff. Even playing as disc having the combo of fear and shining force means you can juke a trinket from a melee on you. The tool shadow has to get away from melee might as well not be there they are so useless/easily countered.

    The dispersion nerf is getting to me. If you look around at other classes capable of way more damage/burst who have access to a better defensive cooldown than dispersion [cloak of shadows/hunter shield/warlock blood shield] dispersion just doesn't hold up and was really needlessly nerfed.

    What do people think of the meta? Should we expect a big balance patch or is this basically what we're living with for legion?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombina View Post
    ...
    The dispersion nerf is getting to me. If you look around at other classes capable of way more damage/burst who have access to a better defensive cooldown than dispersion [cloak of shadows/hunter shield/warlock blood shield] dispersion just doesn't hold up and was really needlessly nerfed...
    I wholeheartedly agree on this one. On top of this, it's not like we can still cast (like a Warlock/Rogue/etc) with it up anyway. I find that most of the time when I Disperse under heavy pressure, I still die anyway - unless I have outside heals or a healthstone.

    I will flay your mind.

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