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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    Fel Rush is fine for being used as a damage ability. It's Vengeful Retreat that shouldn't be turned into one. Havoc was a weird issue where what little utility we have gets turned into dps tools. Blur refreshes Fel Rush charges and Vengeful Retreat procs momentum. I'm surprised there isn't a talent that makes Chaos Nova a dps CD.

    I'm not too worried though. It's an entirely new class and it's most likely going to be going through constant changes as the expansion goes on. I still like everything else about Havoc.
    They most likely did it to prevent Fel Rush being an a low CD with so much dmg, They could have nerfed the damage and reduce the CD to help with the Momentum build but then people would only use it for the momentum buff not the dmg or the fury gen. but yeah i agree, VR should really remain as a utility not for damage.

  2. #42
    If you don't want to Vengeful Retreat rotationally, simply don't. It's not a big DPS increase, even if you take Momentum. And you can pick Nemesis instead of Momentum too if you want, but I don't recommend it unless you're really good at using 2 min cooldowns on trash and still having them up on bosses or hard pulls.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    Fel Rush is fine for being used as a damage ability. It's Vengeful Retreat that shouldn't be turned into one. Havoc was a weird issue where what little utility we have gets turned into dps tools. Blur refreshes Fel Rush charges and Vengeful Retreat procs momentum. I'm surprised there isn't a talent that makes Chaos Nova a dps CD.

    I'm not too worried though. It's an entirely new class and it's most likely going to be going through constant changes as the expansion goes on. I still like everything else about Havoc.
    Honestly not to bothered by it myself. If it's a fight where i know I'll need those defensive cool downs I can save them. I'll take a bit of a DPS hit but being dead is way less DPS. The other 95% of the time when they sit there uselessly I can now utilize them for damage. Win win in my opinion.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varlak View Post
    fell rush - prepared are talent so basicaly they are optional since blizzard claim for years that talent should be a choice and not a cookie cutter build.

    Its different then a DK who would complain about beeing a DoT class. Fel rush-momentum-prepared playstyle isn't in our core kit.
    You're wrong. Fel rush should be used on cd even when not specced into fel mastery/momentum. It's part of the rotation.

  5. #45
    Yep. As predicted, many people started the new class with the expansion, hate repositioning rotationally like I do, and want to bargain their way out of doing it. But you can't. You must Fel Rush twice every 20s.

    Havoc is going to get a hunter-like rep from tons of people doing poor DPS due to this.

  6. #46
    The Lightbringer De Lupe's Avatar
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    Makes me glad I wasn't excited about DH. It's the part of Legion I was least anticipating.

    I just VR into a FR. Saves me time repositioning after I charge back in and it saves me a charge of FR to move out of the fire. Mind you, mine is only 100 and probably will be the last one I level in a few months, but I find that a DPS who died because they have no movement is worse than the one who got away.

    Kinda hope they remove a large part of the damage from FR and put it into a talent for those who want it. Putting damage (especially damage so high) on a movement ability is poor design. Make it more of a Heroic Leaping or Flying Serpent Kick where it does deal damage, but not enough to justify making it rotational.
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  7. #47
    Putting damage into a movement ability isn't necessarily poor design. It fits the DH class fantasy and who knows, it could actually work in challenging content.

    Making rotational repositioning mandatory, and not allowing players to spec out of it, on a class that the devs loudly trumpeted was easy to play, that is poor design.

  8. #48
    It was a blast to try out the playstyle on Tyrant Velhari P1, that's for sure.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by I Regret Nothing View Post
    It was a blast to try out the playstyle on Tyrant Velhari P1, that's for sure.
    Yeah fights where you absolutely have to stand still are going to suuuuck for DHs. Its funny because its like the exact opposite for so many other classes(i.e. Arcane Mage)where standing still is key.

    Personally I'm really enjoying the playstyle. I just hit 106 and got Momentum and I feel like I'm just tearing people up. I'm practicing now with maintaining good Momentum uptime(having a Weakaura showing a big icon whenever its up is really nice). I haven't had this much fun playing WoW in a loooong time.

  10. #50
    This is honestly making me consider re-rolling my dps role in one of my raid groups.

    I love the demon hunter theme, the fantasy the story, all of it. Black temple was a huge part of my prime as a player in this game.

    But I am predicting that if I continue to do this, it's going to take away from a good part of the game for me, and that's enjoying the actual aesthetics and view. It may sound dumb, but when I'm fighting things or in the middle of a boss fight, zipping around, bouncing back...it ruins that for me. It's so bad to the point I'm considering going death knight because their mobility is so poor it's constantly complained about.

    It's such a hard choice, and like I said I love this class and it's themes. I understand they said demon blades needs to be lower, but momentum...it needs to be brought in line with the other two choices on that tier. It's just not fun after awhile.

  11. #51
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    Why does people feel obligated to play a certain way or use certain talents? For real, Blizz has made a wonderful thing by making almost the entire talent tree diferent for each spec, its so everyone can play their own way, instead of following cookie cutter builds that someone else wrote on fanwebsites.

    Just play watever talent you want as long as you're enjoying it

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rehok View Post
    None as a fel bat pops out and brings you to the island.
    Wow.... boooorrrrinnnnggg lol

  13. #53
    I agree, I dont like Fel Rush on ST rotation, so I dont use it

    dont care about DPS loss

    do use it for mobility/closing the gap like a charge and for AoE

    or a VR+FR combo so you get back where you started

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by vitor210 View Post
    Just play watever talent you want as long as you're enjoying it
    It's a 12-20% DPS loss, depending on talent choices and playstyle. If you can deal with that, sure, go for it.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Life-Binder View Post
    I agree, I dont like Fel Rush on ST rotation, so I dont use it

    dont care about DPS loss

    do use it for mobility/closing the gap like a charge and for AoE

    or a VR+FR combo so you get back where you started
    This is the attitude you are going to need if you DON'T want to fel rush (regardless of spec) for DPS. If you feel you have to care for any reason (i.e. a hardcore player trying to eek out every bit of DPS) don't play Havoc DH.

    The good news is that VR+FR is perfectly fine if you aren't specced for momo. And it's fun.

  16. #56
    This really isn't a "hardcore players trying to eke out every bit of DPS" thing. When I think about the hardcore, that's expending effort for a <5% gain. Repositioning rotationally is up to a 20% gain on single targets, and more on AE. Even (most) casuals aren't willing to give up a whopping 20%!

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    This really isn't a "hardcore players trying to eke out every bit of DPS" thing. When I think about the hardcore, that's expending effort for a <5% gain. Repositioning rotationally is up to a 20% gain on single targets, and more on AE. Even (most) casuals aren't willing to give up a whopping 20%!
    Well yeah, that is why it was just an example. That is why I said "If you feel you have to care for any reason" then gave an example of why one might care. Not a great example though in retrospect.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    Blur refreshes Fel Rush charges and Vengeful Retreat procs momentum.
    In a PvE situation you pretty much want to be using Blur nearly on CD anyway because it's main mechanic is random and has a short CD. By tying it into Fel Rush charges, Blizzard is giving you a hint that the optimal way to use it is early and often.

  19. #59
    Blur is not random, you're thinking of Darkness.

    Blur giving 2 Fel Rush charges is a very small performance increase-- that is something only the truly hardcore should attempt. Everybody else should hold Blur to save their life.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Blur is not random, you're thinking of Darkness.
    I think he means the dodge chance.

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