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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    At the moment, nah. Fire definitely can't compete against all the burst aoe going on. Although, arcane that is spec'd to aoe on talents and traits might prove really well. I should dump some artifact into it and try maybe.
    You haven't seen a decent fire mage. Don't watch Xyronic's stream, because he's terrible. I'm easily competing with every melee on trash and doing high 200s on bosses. If the boss has adds for ignite spreading, nobody can touch the damage of having multiple 160k+ Ignites ticking on targets.

    Meanwhile, WW is definitely getting nerfed.

  2. #42
    [
    Quote Originally Posted by xpose View Post
    Worst

    Warlocks
    Frost DK
    Ret Paladin
    Elemental Shamans
    Locks are putting up some really good numbers in the groups I've been in with them

  3. #43
    Deleted
    Generally speaking, melees are currently shitting all over casters. Fire mage is the only one coming somewhat close to the dps that melees can do, but they are still a mile ahead.

    Classes with insane burst on trash packs are currently: dh > unholy dk = rogue = monk >> warrior > rest

    Warlocks, moonkins and ele shamans seem to be really bad in comparison.

  4. #44
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by kensai666 View Post
    DHs are a fucking joke. They do 1M dps by sitting on their keyboard on big packs. 2M dps if they are trying. Nobody else can keep up. Nobody.
    Dunno about that dude, i can easily do that much as a ww monk on aoe

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by xpose View Post
    Worst

    Warlocks
    Frost DK
    Ret Paladin
    Elemental Shamans
    I love Ele with all my heart, even mained it for an expansion for PvP. But I don't remember ever seeing Ele competing in the PvE damage rankings.

    Shows us som luv blizzard

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrofluoric View Post
    I love Ele with all my heart, even mained it for an expansion for PvP. But I don't remember ever seeing Ele competing in the PvE damage rankings.

    Shows us som luv blizzard
    In highmaul Elementals were good enough in some fights. But thats because blizzard fucked them up so much in the beginning of the expansion that they had to buff it to almost mage status...but that didn't last long...

    Right now Elemental shamans are even worse.

  7. #47
    Yeah I've said it many times, Elemental is my favourite spec in the game. However, Mage this expansion.

    MoP Elemental <3

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeron View Post
    This is weird. Im playing a frost DK around ~800 ilvl, and pulling 300-500k aoe and 130-160k dps ST.
    In most cases, im doing ~40-45% of the total damage from a 5 man group. Not sure if I've just been in bad groups or not, but frost seems nowhere near the bottom from my experience. I'm also just in normal dungeons in levelling gear, so things might change as I scale up.
    Correct.

    Normal dungeons and leveling gear aren't really the thing you use to test it.

    The simcraft results, while not perfect or without flaw, are a much better representation, even if they're still a good bit off.

    They're using set profiles, optimum gear, a set encounter, and a pre-determined rotation with rates of error and whatnot.

    The reason it's alarming isn't frost being bottom of the barrel - it usually is, but the alarming part is that even with optimal gear it still can't compete - that tells me that the whole re-design and departure from balancing 2H v. DW and the whole killing machine devaluing crit thing didn't do shit and frost is still either grossly undertuned numerically or just fundamentally broken by design.

    The shit treatment frost got is why I ultimately decided to play my warrior in Legion as a raiding character, though I still intend to get my DK to 110.
    Signature dunked by a lame MMO Champ robot.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellianar View Post
    First yes you're mistaken

    Second, I've never said any sims but the warrior ones were decent, way to put words in my mouth.

    Third, I think you've no idea how SimC works. If you did you wouldn't question "default" APL (wtf does that even mean) the arms APL is optimized as per newest information. I dare you to point me errors so I can have a laugh.
    The APL default is the APL that it uses without user changes. For example there is a lot of discussion around that specifically in Arms right now so I "Dare" you to just bloody look at the arms warrior thread and find out for yourself instead of blindly with such arrogance. Because of how volatile the spec is regarding RNG, not to mention what you might call "Unintended" functionality with Hamstring and Tactition (note : not opportunity strikes that was just changed) there are a lot of conflicting opinions and different results showing up, results superior to the basic APL.

    These APL have always taken quite some time to arrive at a good point, in 6.2 for example nobody who knew what they were doing would have used the default APL that was programmed into Simcraft for Arms. This happens with all specs and every expansion has proven SC is not a reliable source of class comparisons, why people keep coming back to this nonsense is beyond me.

    People can see which specs are exceptional right now by playing the game and from Beta testing, and those exceptional specs do not line up with that graph. Arms is very strong on single target, but it's not "strongest spec in the game" strong, just as Ferals to anyone looking at that sheet would seem incredible when the reality is that they aren't.

    Context and solid understanding needs to be used when using these sim comparisons even when the sims are very accurate late into tier, using them to show a new player which specs are doing well at the start of the expansion is just downright dumb.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plastkin View Post
    You haven't seen a decent fire mage. Don't watch Xyronic's stream, because he's terrible. I'm easily competing with every melee on trash and doing high 200s on bosses. If the boss has adds for ignite spreading, nobody can touch the damage of having multiple 160k+ Ignites ticking on targets.

    Meanwhile, WW is definitely getting nerfed.
    To get that kind of ignite you would have to blow everything on the adds though. Not really worth it unless its mythic+...

  11. #51
    Feel like a potato on my Mage unless we are pulling lots of packs together and living bomb goes to absurdity. On regular 1-2 pack pulls I can't compete with melee at all, hell even some tanks can beat me on those pulls. I'm not even doing significantly more boss damage than other people, I even lose if the kill times go on long enough.

    All through beta I keep hearing about how insane fire is but I'm just not seeing it right now.
    Hi Sephurik

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    Feel like a potato on my Mage unless we are pulling lots of packs together and living bomb goes to absurdity. On regular 1-2 pack pulls I can't compete with melee at all, hell even some tanks can beat me on those pulls. I'm not even doing significantly more boss damage than other people, I even lose if the kill times go on long enough.

    All through beta I keep hearing about how insane fire is but I'm just not seeing it right now.
    You gotta be doing something wrong. Fire mage is legit broken.

  13. #53
    Well played Havoc, Outlaw, Marks, and Windwalker will do 1.5-2x everyone else right now in dungeons.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    You gotta be doing something wrong. Fire mage is legit broken.
    Only time I feel broken is when we kill a boss in like 20 seconds or when living bomb is doing 20 explosions.
    Last edited by Volitar; 2016-09-02 at 08:21 PM.
    Hi Sephurik

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    The APL default is the APL that it uses without user changes. For example there is a lot of discussion around that specifically in Arms right now so I "Dare" you to just bloody look at the arms warrior thread and find out for yourself instead of blindly with such arrogance. Because of how volatile the spec is regarding RNG, not to mention what you might call "Unintended" functionality with Hamstring and Tactition (note : not opportunity strikes that was just changed) there are a lot of conflicting opinions and different results showing up, results superior to the basic APL.

    These APL have always taken quite some time to arrive at a good point, in 6.2 for example nobody who knew what they were doing would have used the default APL that was programmed into Simcraft for Arms. This happens with all specs and every expansion has proven SC is not a reliable source of class comparisons, why people keep coming back to this nonsense is beyond me.

    People can see which specs are exceptional right now by playing the game and from Beta testing, and those exceptional specs do not line up with that graph. Arms is very strong on single target, but it's not "strongest spec in the game" strong, just as Ferals to anyone looking at that sheet would seem incredible when the reality is that they aren't.

    Context and solid understanding needs to be used when using these sim comparisons even when the sims are very accurate late into tier, using them to show a new player which specs are doing well at the start of the expansion is just downright dumb.
    What arms warrior thread? The one on MMO champ where the author keep saying the sim is accurate? Or the discord where he says the same?

    Yeah i'm trusting default profile more than any random modification from a nobody.

    You clearly can't answer my questions and have no clue, especially about warriors, just gtfo already.

    Hamstring spam account for 2% of the spec dps, negligeable, again you have no clue.

    Again the warrios theorycrafters are saying they're destroying everyone in dungeons and confirming the sims numbers, so yeah. I'm sure beta feedback where 99.9% of the population played fury and never touched the FR arms build is solid.
    Last edited by Ellianar; 2016-09-02 at 08:27 PM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellianar View Post
    What arms warrior thread? The one on MMO champ where the author keep saying the sim is accurate? Or the discord where he says the same?

    Yeah i'm trusting default profile more than any random modification from a nobody.

    You clearly can't answer my questions and have no clue, especially about warriors, just gtfo already.

    Hamstring spam account for 2% of the spec dps, negligeable, again you have no clue.

    Again the best warriors out there are saying they're destroying everyone in dungeons so yeah. I'm sure beta feedback where 99.9% of the population played fury and never touched the FR arms build is solid.
    Why do you jump to conclusions as "no clue" after making your own assumption on the importance of "hamstring" in my words. Stop being such an aggressive cunt in your posts, read the actual context of the thread because it clearly seems you have not. We knew FR Arms was stronger during the beta.. Honestly stop posting without having a clue and trying to put down my posts with your aggro.

    Do you know who I am? It's clear you dont, so stop making baseless assumptions on my knowledge. You trust the default profile even when the edits are providing higher numbers? By all means if you want to be a blind sheep who doesn't do his own homework then crack on, but don't use other peoples posts out of context as your shield.

    By all means trust the sim comparisons as you do, ride on the ignorance.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  17. #57
    Ion claimed melee would do quite well in 5m but that ranged would do better in raids. I suppose we'll have to see. Disappointing that ice mages are so bad, what on earth is up with that.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Demeia View Post
    Ion claimed melee would do quite well in 5m but that ranged would do better in raids. I suppose we'll have to see. Disappointing that ice mages are so bad, what on earth is up with that.
    With the way you can talent hunter BM to work, I would be genuinely surprised if BM was bad at 5m. It's a competitive range spec for 5m that doesn't ever need to stop moving. They will likely be in demand for mythic+.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehrenpanzer View Post
    Then you have a REALLY shitty memory... since Ele shammies owned the majority of that expac
    ummm you seem to have the shitty memory.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by kaloryth View Post
    With the way you can talent hunter BM to work, I would be genuinely surprised if BM was bad at 5m. It's a competitive range spec for 5m that doesn't ever need to stop moving. They will likely be in demand for mythic+.
    Hunter is kind of the exception to the rule.
    Hi Sephurik

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