How can people say now that Sylvanas isnt evil ?

[Trassk]

It's also worth noting that the active role of the Loa in this dealing have been limited in granting a (supposed) vision of the future to Vol'jin and the "whispering" of a name, a name we're not even sure is the one of Sylvanas.

It just doesn't look like the Loa chose anything, Vol'jin did. What the Loa did is likely show him the unfolding of certain events in the near or even distant future, insight that obviously influenced his ultimate decision.

We see in legion that turalyon makes an appearance, wouldn't it be ironic that the windrunner the loa spoke of wasn't sylvanas, but alleria, and so making vol'jins choice to make sylvanas ruler a false one, leading to more strife.

[Bethrezen]

So what if she's evil?

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It's also worth noting that the active role of the Loa in this dealing have been limited in granting a (supposed) vision of the future to Vol'jin and the "whispering" of a name, a name we're not even sure is the one of Sylvanas.

It just doesn't look like the Loa chose anything, Vol'jin did. What the Loa did is likely show him the unfolding of certain events in the near or even distant future, insight that obviously influenced his ultimate decision.

Loa chose Sylvanas for the sole purpose and better possibility (through Vol'jin mediating next warchief) for more souls to send to the Loa for feeding from war.

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We see in legion that turalyon makes an appearance, wouldn't it be ironic that the windrunner the loa spoke of wasn't sylvanas, but alleria, and so making vol'jins choice to make sylvanas ruler a false one, leading to more strife.

Loa spirit vision to Vol'jin, whose done so much for them in the past + books, would not be that misguided. Or misguided at all. Plus, Alleria is totally unlikely to feed the Loa more souls.

[Trassk]

Something else I hadn't really thought of till now, but when you really get down to it, all horde players, with the exception of sylvanas fanboys/girls, should be completely pissed at sylvanas. From when we started in stormheim, we, the player character, has been guided along a path to prove or characters valor, honor, bravery and all that, we've literally gone to hell and back, showing these titan keepers that we're worthy of receiving the gift we've been driving for.. and then in the 11th hour, sylvanas swoops in and claims all our hard work for her own.

I'm gonna overlook the fact despite doing all this, the cinematic only boils down to these two and nobody else, almost as if I'm not really a part of the story :O

[Darktbs]

Funny is.

Arthas invades Quel'thalas,Sylvanas the ranger General of Silvermoon,fail to defend her kingdom,becomes a monster,then later seeks revenge agaisnt Arthas for destroying her kingdom.People love her and say she is right.

Sylvanas,invades the Kingdom of Gilneas,that has been hit by the Worgen Curse and Cataclysm.And its king,Greymane,that also is a monster because of the Worgen curse,fails to defend his kingdom and seeks revenge agaisnt her.And he is called names and more.

Logic.

I like most of the Faction leaders.Removing Gallywix and Malfurion.But be real.Sylvanas is no diferent from Greymane if not worse.

[Deleted]

I understand fine. Alliance heard the horn before the Horde retreated.


Willfully misinterpreting the information to make an incorrect and broad generalization... The Alliance did need the Horde to attack the Legion. If the Horde had not been there at all for the entire attack, the Alliance would have failed sooner. The point being in that precise moment when the Horde retreated, the Alliance was not immediately affected.


Except in that moment, nothing changed for the Alliance. The Alliance only wanted the Horde to clear the airspace for the gunship. Gunship arrived just fine and cleared the airspace itself. Horde being there or not in that moment was inconsequential to the Alliance's situation.


Retreats happen and flanks collapse. That is not a betrayal. WTF do you think battle drums and horns were invented? They are to signal your allies of movement and formations. According to your logic, Sylvanas betrayed the Horde forces by only blowing the horn before jumping on her horse.


I must be Horde fanboi because I understand the entire situation...

Pretty sad how far off you are. I really can't say anything else to someone refusing to see logic and morality. Not to even mention the whole honor part...

[Aquamonkey]

Pretty sad how far off you are. I really can't say anything else to someone refusing to see logic and morality. Not to even mention the whole honor part...

Yep, the logic of how Sylvanas betrayed the Horde by only blowing the horn without "warning" the Horde forces she was retreating...

[Flurryfang]

I know that there are TONS of threads discussing this. But with new lore, i can make my case. And, if im wrong, please correct me.
Now we know what Sylvanas has been doin in Stormheim, she made a pact with Helya [ clearly evil ] to bind/control the Val'kyr queen, if im not wrong, to HELYA control her. Then Sylvanas would have an endless supply of val'kyr and be pratically imortal. So she wants to defeat a force of good, helping a force of evil, because she is more important than everyone else? Tell me when any in the Alliance did something like that man!

.... you know that she is doing this to keep her people, The forsaken, alive right? She has literally sold her soul to save her people from impending doom. And from what i have seen from the quests in Hellheim, she is not a servant of Helya, she just made a pact with her. Helya gave her the lantern to control Eyir in exchange for her soul.... There is no serving part here.

So while she is doing something bad, she is doing it for a good reason. She is trying to make sure her people does not die out, since she is losing Val'kyr left and right. She needs a new source of necromancing power and the Val'kyr are perfect for that.

Also, Forsaken are already immortal, so there is no selfish reason behind all this, since immortallity is pretty useless for the undead.

[Deleted]

Yep, the logic of how Sylvanas betrayed the Horde by only blowing the horn without "warning" the Horde forces she was retreating...

Suuure. Whatever you say...

[Itisamuh]

I clearly must have missed where she was ever evil to start with.

[Zulkhan]

We see in legion that turalyon makes an appearance, wouldn't it be ironic that the windrunner the loa spoke of wasn't sylvanas, but alleria, and so making vol'jins choice to make sylvanas ruler a false one, leading to more strife.

Doubtful, as the spirits apparently granted "clarity" to Vol'jin, which means he had full conscience of the choice he made.

Loa chose Sylvanas for the sole purpose and better possibility (through Vol'jin mediating next warchief) for more souls to send to the Loa for feeding from war.

Unlikely. And again, the Loa didn't, in fact, choose anything. They merely granted Vol'jin a vision. Yeah, they also "whispered a name" but besides the fact that we don't know if such name was the one of Sylvanas or someone else intended to be related/connected to her, "whispering" names alone do not say "appoint dat bitch as Warchief". I even doubt the Loa particularly care about who commands the Horde.

[Darktbs]

Yes, logic!
1. Garrosh started the invasion.
2. Quel'thalas had 90% of its people killed.
3. The Worgen curse wasn't made by Sylvanas.
4. The Worgen weren't changed into a mindcontrolled army.
5. Genn hasn't been tortured.

1-Safe to say that the Lich King started the invasion then.Not Arthas.
2-After the war was already over.They were at 100% at the begining while the Gilneans were not.
3-She attack while the curse was haunting the land.Imagine the Amani attack Quel'thalas then later on the Scourge comes.
4-Yes because human size wolfs on a rampage are way less dangerous.
5-His people suffered while he tried to secure then from Forsaken,Cataclysm,Worgen,watched his son die trying to protect him and is forced to flee from his homeland.I THINK he was well tortured.

[Nightfyre]

I can't say she's totally evil, but the things she does can be viewed as that by both sides. She's willing to help but as something that can benefit her as well. With the latest video of her and genn, what she was doing would help the horde fight the legion, but it's something she can use against them should the need arise.

I can see she had some respect for Varian and was troubled by having to leave him on the battlefield, so I respect her decision and I feel the spirits see something special in her too to make her WarChief. But not everyone will see it as well, because of blind hate for her. Genn and Jaina are the problems right now, but Genn might be dying unless he finds help. Since it's the same type of arrow his son died, I believe?

[Darktbs]

1. Arthas attacked Quel'thalas with his army because he wanted to raise Kel'Thuzad.
2. So? Fact is that Arthas killed 90% of the citizens, Sylvanas isn't even close.
3. Again: So?
4. Yes, less dangerous and not as bad. Which invalidates the comparison even further.
5. His son died by jumping in front of an arrow and they had to leave the city.. Do you think that's even on the same level as being turned into a Banshee, tortured so they could use your scream as a weapon AND forced to slay your own people?

The point is that you compare Genn and Sylvanas.
They are not on the same level. His story against Sylvanas is not comparable to her story with Arthas.

1-Orly.But i guess you missed my point.
2-You have the numbes of how many Sylvanas killed?Because Arthas killed 90% of the High elfs yet they still have a great presence in Azeroth as blood elfs.
3-Fair enough.
4-Both are mindless beast that will attack anything in sight and aren't killed because they were once loved ones of someone.Diference?One is alive and the other is dead.And other can be fused together.
5-He lost a loved one and many of his people and has to suffer because he was unable to defend his people and hates the banshee because of what he did.Sylvanas failed her only duty and was forced to kill her own people.Both had to deal with their people being killed.The difference is one had to kill its own people and the other lost someone important.

They arent?Then tell me?Who rised mindless undead agaisnt other kingdom and who is the one that tried to defend it?Oh yea!Like she said."I serve the Horde"I guess that makes her different. *Sarcastic*

[Highwhale]

Fun fact - Arthas butchered Quel'Thalas because of Sylvanas's annoyance. Originally he just wanted reach Sunwell - rise KT and leave.

[Zulkhan]

Fun fact - Arthas butchered Quel'Thalas because of Sylvanas's annoyance. Originally he just wanted reach Sunwell - rise KT and leave.

Yo.

Arthas: So the plague in Lordaeron, the citadels of Northrend, the slaughtering of the elves... It was all just to prepare for some huge demonic invasion?

Kel'Thuzad: Yes. In time, you will find that our entire history has been shaped by the coming conflict. Now come; we have much work to do.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Revelation

[Tripzzz]

I clearly must have missed where she was ever evil to start with.

She is either evil or incredibly stupid. Probably both. She lets torture and experiments happen to live prisoners in her city. She put her faith in a dreadlord(lol) and it bit her in the ass. She let two high ranking forsaken(Putress and Stillwater) run rampant for a while, finally stopping them after they killed a shit ton of people.

Forsaken fanboys say the Forsaken don't use mind control. Yes, I know a blue post exists that says the Forsaken don't use mind control. However, that blue post starts out with "Free will is a cornerstone of the Forsaken" and yet we see Sylvanas, leader of the Forsaken, trying to enslave Eyir(who is an undead) against her will. We also have this in game evidence.

Theresa the human living in undercity that has been turned into "Gerard's Mindslave" after having medical torture performed on her while she was still conscious.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Gerard_Abernathy

Gerard Abernathy says: "A little torture, a pinch of magic, and an ample helping of invasive surgery. She was conscious, of course."

Gerard Abernathy says: "A little ritual torture can go a long way."

[thugnikka]

sylvanas will most likely go after eyir and defeat everything the valk queen throws at her, beat her into submission and then eyir will consider sylvanas "worthy" and present her with the choice to ascend and "decide whether her people are more precious to her than her soul."

i'm also hoping that sylvie and genn go at it again and windrunner wrecks him bc the fight was too short but we kinda seen the combat prowess of windrunner outstrips wolfie

[Qualia]

sylvanas will most likely go after eyir and defeat everything the valk queen throws at her, beat her into submission and then eyir will consider sylvanas "worthy" and present her with the choice to ascend and "decide whether her people are more precious to her than her soul."

I kinda doubt this scenario. If Sylvanas get her hand on Eyir again, there would be no choice, just enslavement. For Eyir to be able to force Sylvanas to choose, she need to be at higher position in the pact.

[steelballfc]

so after 10+ years of playing wow
people can't get the fact there is a forsaken and Blood elf's in Horde
Great

[Kithelle]

Her motivation is pretty good though. She might be selfish and be doing evil things, but she doesn't want to die. She's desperate, and desperate people do crazy things.
It's more motivation than Gul'dan has.

As cute as your avatar is I have to disagree with you!

It is? Gul'dan serves a master who gave him power and new life basically...he serves for power...she uses people in a quest for immortality...at least Gul'dan's motives mean something, they will change the world we know for one reason or another (In the Legion's case to purge evil and corruption from the universe) Where as what would her immortality do? How would it affect anyone but herself? How would it change the world in any real way other than some greedy murderous undead elf would truly live forever...