Unlicensed illegal invader crashes into accident scene, kills 2, injures 36.

[Vash The Stampede]

The company who hired the illegal should be punished. They pay a shit wage, and get shit labor. Now let them pay for employing an illegal, who is now responsible for all this.

Also, is the driver related to Bender Bending Rodriguez?

[runique]

There IS a process though you can continue to say there is "not a clear and concise way" all you want, but an immigration system exists and cleary defines what you need to do immigrate. It isnt an overnight process, you just dont fly here, sign and paper and become a citizen. Just because you dont like it does not give someone reason to ignore it and just come over illegally.

Having said that, if you ask me, I think our procedures should be looked into. With the amount of immigration request that flood our system, there are bound to be delays, and some things may not be as smooth as we like. Then there are immigration quotas where we only accept a certain amount of immigrants from each region/country.

No where did I ask for a system for someone to be able to just walk in and sign a paper, nor am I encouraging people to ignore the rules. But it is a simple fact that if a hard working person that isn't uniquely skilled enough to have a company pay for a work visa for them, and they cant acquire a family visa, the only method to become a citizen is by being an illegal immigrant. That is stupid. And again, there is not a way for a normal, hard working person from another nation to become a citizen or even acquire a visa. You keep on saying that there is, but normal, hard working people from other nations aren't married to US citizens, nor are they unmarried children of US citizens. And they also aren't so skilled as to which a company would pay for them a work visa. All I am saying is that there should be a process where a hard working person from another nation can apply for a visa, be vetted by the US government, and come over here and have a chance to become a United States citizen. Stop omitting words in your replies and ignoring the general point of my post please.

- - - Updated - - -

Our porous, understaffed border encourages illegal immigration.

There is a very clear way to immigrate here. Too many people don't want to comply with that very clear way. Tough shit.

Can you actually name a clear way for a hard working person of another country to immigrate without marrying into it or being uniquely skilled enough to acquire a work visa? Please?

[Spectral]

Who needs proof? Do you need proof that you can drive? Do I need proof that you can drive? I don't give a fuck. Only government cares somehow. You either can or cannot drive. Accidents happen with licenses and without licenses. The only reason to have licenses is to cash in on fines when people break arbitrary rules.

Yes, I would like people to be held to some minimum standard of ability for driving. I actually think standards are far too low in general.

You're also missing that licensing and insurance are relevant for providing compensation for injured parties. If some illegal alien with no license and no insurance T-bones me and the bodily damages exceed my insurance, I'm fucked. That's a pretty awful outcome.

[Kapadons]

No where did I ask for a system for someone to be able to just walk in and sign a paper, nor am I encouraging people to ignore the rules. But it is a simple fact that if a hard working person that isn't uniquely skilled enough to have a company pay for a work visa for them, and they cant acquire a family visa, the only method to become a citizen is by being an illegal immigrant. That is stupid. And again, there is not a way for a normal, hard working person from another nation to become a citizen or even acquire a visa. You keep on saying that there is, but normal, hard working people from other nations aren't married to US citizens, nor are they unmarried children of US citizens. And they also aren't so skilled as to which a company would pay for them a work visa. All I am saying is that there should be a process where a hard working person from another nation can apply for a visa, be vetted by the US government, and come over here and have a chance to become a United States citizen. Stop omitting words in your replies and ignoring the general point of my post please.

- - - Updated - - -



Can you actually name a clear way for a hard working person of another country to immigrate without marrying into it or being uniquely skilled enough to acquire a work visa? Please?

You are missing a reason. That is why would the US want someone like that ? They may be hard working and law abiding and generally good person. But the US has a shit ton of people just like that already here. There really isn't a reason the US should open a citizenship for someone that doesn't have skills that are currently in high demand. Add in a language and cultural barrier, and it makes even less sense why America or any country would want to give someone like that a citizenship.

[Elim Garak]

The State requires proof that you have been trained to drive. They want to ensure everyone who gets behind the wheel knows the rules of the roads in their state. They want to ensure everyone knows the signs and rights of way to reduce the number of accidents on the roads of the state.

All I hear "the state requires", "the state wants". But I don't hear why and what for. People with license break rules all the time. Accidents happen all the time. Everyone involved has licenses. Seems like licenses mean jack shit. Also case in point my license is outdated, but I didn't suddenly forget how to drive or the rules, lol, would it hurt anyone if I was driving now? Only government's butt would be hurt.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, I would like people to be held to some minimum standard of ability for driving. I actually think standards are far too low in general.

You're also missing that licensing and insurance are relevant for providing compensation for injured parties. If some illegal alien with no license and no insurance T-bones me and the bodily damages exceed my insurance, I'm fucked. That's a pretty awful outcome.

That's the problem with insurance companies, licenses have nothing to do with it. Basically you rationalize oppression because you are stuck in the oppression loop. You only need a license because the system made sure you are fucked without it. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about license meaning jack shit in relation to driving skills.

[Damajin]

No where did I ask for a system for someone to be able to just walk in and sign a paper, nor am I encouraging people to ignore the rules. But it is a simple fact that if a hard working person that isn't uniquely skilled enough to have a company pay for a work visa for them, and they cant acquire a family visa, the only method to become a citizen is by being an illegal immigrant. That is stupid. And again, there is not a way for a normal, hard working person from another nation to become a citizen or even acquire a visa. You keep on saying that there is, but normal, hard working people from other nations aren't married to US citizens, nor are they unmarried children of US citizens. And they also aren't so skilled as to which a company would pay for them a work visa. All I am saying is that there should be a process where a hard working person from another nation can apply for a visa, be vetted by the US government, and come over here and have a chance to become a United States citizen. Stop omitting words in your replies and ignoring the general point of my post please.

- - - Updated - - -



Can you actually name a clear way for a hard working person of another country to immigrate without marrying into it or being uniquely skilled enough to acquire a work visa? Please?

Nope, that's what you have to do.

[Endus]

Immigration, like everything else government run, is a cumbersome burdensome process.

And we can and should address that ...after we secure the border and remove those here illegally.

Is your issue with the fact that they don't have permission to reside within the USA? Because if so, amnesty laws address that just as easily, and much more cost-effectively, than deportation. Combine with a short path to citizenship for long-term retention.

Is your issue with the fact that they should be "punished" for being illegal immigrants? No law supports this. The most that can happen to them for unlawful presence is that they can be sent home (deportation) and denied future entry for a certain period. And if they're granted amnesty, there's no longer grounds for any of that, so no grounds for you to be upset any longer.

[Kapadons]

All I hear "the state requires", "the state wants". But I don't hear why and what for. People with license break rules all the time. Accidents happen all the time. Everyone involved has licenses. Seems like licenses mean jack shit. Also case in point my license is outdated, but I didn't suddenly forget how to drive or the rules, lol, would it hurt anyone if I was driving now? Only government's butt would be hurt.

We have rules for driving. Stop at red, stop at signs, yield to ramp, right on red , drive on the right, don't exceed this speed, slow down or pull over for emergency vehicles etc.

The point is that as long as we have these rules, we have to have an avenue in which people learn them. The way to do that is required classes/courses/tests that show someone understands them. Then give them something that they can show to police that says they have met that standard.

If you've had your license 50 years and have to renew, that becomes a product of you photo ID being rolled into your drivers license.

[Endus]

All I hear "the state requires", "the state wants". But I don't hear why and what for. People with license break rules all the time. Accidents happen all the time. Everyone involved has licenses. Seems like licenses mean jack shit. Also case in point my license is outdated, but I didn't suddenly forget how to drive or the rules, lol, would it hurt anyone if I was driving now? Only government's butt would be hurt.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that driving is a right that the government is restricting your access to.

It is not.

It is a privilege, and to demonstrate that you qualify for that privilege, the government requires that you demonstrate some basic proficiency. Hence the licence.

[Spectral]

That's the problem with insurance companies, licenses have nothing to do with it. Basically you rationalize oppression because you are stuck in the oppression loop. You only need a license because the system made sure you are fucked without it. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about license meaning jack shit in relation to driving skills.

This is really like a parody. The problem with illegals driving uninsured cars is that insurance companies are oppressive? Jesus Christ, there's left-leaning and then there's off the deep end shit.

[Elim Garak]

We have rules for driving. Stop at red, stop at signs, yield to ramp, right on red , drive on the right, don't exceed this speed, slow down or pull over for emergency vehicles etc.

No need for license to get all that, it's not rocket science, ffs.

The point is that as long as we have these rules, we have to have an avenue in which people learn them. The way to do that is required classes/courses/tests that show someone understands them.

That's business. Has nothing to do with rules and learning them, you can learn all the rules at home

Then give them something that they can show to police that says they have met that standard.

That's completely unnecessary part. I'm surprised you don't realize that. The only reason police should check your driver's license is when you BREAK the rules. Any other time - they don't need to (well they do, because if you forget it in other pants they can fine you), and if you broke the rules - your license is irrelevant.

- - - Updated - - -

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that driving is a right that the government is restricting your access to.

It is not.

It is a privilege, and to demonstrate that you qualify for that privilege, the government requires that you demonstrate some basic proficiency. Hence the licence.

That is so Orwellian I don't even.

This is really like a parody. The problem with illegals driving uninsured cars is that insurance companies are oppressive? Jesus Christ, there's left-leaning and then there's off the deep end shit.

Why do insurance companies need a driver be legal to insure a car?

[Endus]

That is so Orwellian I don't even.

The existence of laws is not "Orwellian", holy mother of hyperbole.

[Elim Garak]

The existence of laws is not "Orwellian", holy mother of hyperbole.

Neither is the strawman you are poking right now.

[petej0]

All I hear "the state requires", "the state wants". But I don't hear why and what for. People with license break rules all the time. Accidents happen all the time. Everyone involved has licenses. Seems like licenses mean jack shit. Also case in point my license is outdated, but I didn't suddenly forget how to drive or the rules, lol, would it hurt anyone if I was driving now? Only government's butt would be hurt.

It is proof to the State that you have met the standards required to drive on its roads.

[Endus]

Neither is the strawman you are poking right now.

What "straw man"?

Driving is a privilege. You have no "right" to drive a motor vehicle. It's like carrying a concealed firearm, or practicing medicine, or the like; you need to demonstrate to the government that you're qualified to have that privilege, or it has no reason to grant it.

[Elim Garak]

It is proof to the State that you have met the standards required to drive on its roads.

That doesn't answer my question. It's the same "State needs proof". Why?

[Kapadons]

No need for license to get all that, it's not rocket science, ffs.

That's business. Has nothing to do with rules and learning them, you can learn all the rules at home

That's completely unnecessary part. I'm surprised you don't realize that. The only reason police should check your driver's license is when you BREAK the rules. Any other time - they don't need to (well they do, because if you forget it in other pants they can fine you), and if you broke the rules - your license is irrelevant.

- - - Updated - - -



That is so Orwellian I don't even.

Why do insurance companies need a driver be legal to insure a car?

I know it's against the rules. But please don't infract me Endus, but at this point it seems you are just trolling us. You expect people to know all the rules of the road without someone telling them what they are? Just learn it on there own. And you expect people to do that ?

And Endus is right. Driving is a privilege. It affects you and many other people when you get on the road. You are also using public roads that were paid and built by other people. If the other people (government,on our behalf) don't want you driving in their roads without proving you know how to drive, is not Orwellian

[Elim Garak]

What "straw man"?

Driving is a privilege. You have no "right" to drive a motor vehicle. It's like carrying a concealed firearm, or practicing medicine, or the like; you need to demonstrate to the government that you're qualified to have that privilege, or it has no reason to grant it.

I have all the rights to drive a motor vehicle that I own. What are you smoking? By some arbitrary rules I cannot drive it on state's roads without a license. There's that. But I have every freaking right to drive it. That's Orwellian of you to transform it into a privilege, especially considering the fact that roads are built on tax-payers money.

And the strawman is "The existence of laws is not "Orwellian"
I never said that existence of laws is Orwellian.

- - - Updated - - -

I know it's against the rules. But please don't infract me Endus, but at this point it seems you are just trolling us. You expect people to know all the rules of the road without someone telling them what they are? Just learn it on there own. And you expect people to do that ?

I don't expect people with licenses to know rules. Do you? lol. Most of the rules are fucking irrelevant anyway in day to day driving.

[Kapadons]

I have all the rights to drive a motor vehicle that I own. What are you smoking? By some arbitrary rules I cannot drive it on state's roads without a license. There's that. But I have every freaking right to drive it. That's Orwellian of you to transform it into a privilege, especially considering the fact that roads are built on tax-payers money.

And the strawman is "The existence of laws is not "Orwellian"
I never said that existence of laws is Orwellian.

- - - Updated - - -


I don't expect people with licenses to know rules. Do you? lol. Most of the rules are fucking irrelevant anyway in day to day driving.

You realize "the state" is acting on behalf of those tax-payers, right ?

[Elim Garak]

You realize "the state" is acting on behalf of those tax-payers, right ?

Lol, no it is not. It pretends to. I'm pretty sure tax-payers would prefer to drive their cars without being harassed by the government and their licenses. But it is so ingrained in some countries the driver's license is practically an ID. Talk about total control.