I love Vrykul and Titan Lore

[Leyl]

I know that makes me in the minority here; bc people have some haterade shades on at times on this forum, but I gotta say - the artwork, the missions in Ulduar, and working for Odyn has been a blast. I've seen some people blown away at our class halls looks who have seen it for the first time. I'm not gonna red-shirt-guy all the details, but overall I think a majority of people would walk way satisfied from the warrior class campaign. Ulduar always had my vote as the best raid in all of WoW; and a shot at getting immersed into it more was pretty world shaking.

I'm gonna go back to drinking mead now; and combing my beard. Cheers.

[Jarlhen]

Good for you. I'm glad you enjoy it.

I feel there's about one trillion incredible warriors with a rich and detailed lore that we've interacted with over the last 12 years. Personally I would have designed the class fantasy around what we've actually experienced over a long period of time. Allow us to get to know the many warriors we've encountered but never had the chance to interact with on a deeper level. The idea of building class immersion around something that's pretty much never been mentioned in the game in association with warriors specifically would never have occurred to me. I mean the Vrykul are fine and everything, but they're no more or less warrior-like than, for instance, orcs. The whole Odyn thing... Never even heard of him. Why? Because he was forced into the warrior lore. The only mention prior to Legion of him is, to my knowledge, in the Chronicle books that came out relatively recently. He wasn't mentioned in Ulduar was he?I really can't remember. I know he's got something to do with some Dwarfs. Cool. Still nothing to do with warriors in terms of what we've actually experienced over 12 years. And that's the issue. This whole thing feels like a general quest relating to the Keepers and the Dwarfs. There's not a single thing so far that I've seen that feels in any way, shape, or form, aimed specifically at warriors.

I certainly have no memory of Odyn dying as he freed his people from slavery at the hands of the demons. I do remember Grommash doing so. I have no memory of Odyn being there at the Wrathgate, but I remember Dranosh Saurfang being there. I have no memory of Odyn sacrificing himself to save the others from certain doom. But I sure remember Varian Wrynn doing so. I remember Muradin and Magni Bronzebeard. I remember Bairne and Cairne Bloodhof. Durotan and Draka. Garrosh and Orgrim and Mankrik. Crowley and Greymane. There are a lot of warriors I remember. Odyn and his Vrykul do not belong among such legends.

At the end of the day the majority of people walk away satisfied from whatever Blizzard throws at them. It's pretty normal. The people who come to forums and things aren't the majority. The majority has very little to do with whether or not the content is appropriate or immersive or even good. It's a bad way of judging whether the class halls are satisfactory or not. It only tells us that Blizzard has made a game that appeals to a wide group of people.

ETA: I just want to clarify. Your fun and enjoyment isn't wrong. That's not what I'm implying. My first paragraph is true. I'm just saying that the reason for why many of us can't get into it may have something to do with the rest of the post.

[Archimtiros]

I know that makes me in the minority here; bc people have some haterade shades on at times on this forum, but I gotta say - the artwork, the missions in Ulduar, and working for Odyn has been a blast.

See, this is the misunderstanding.

None of the complaints regarding the class hall have had anything to do with the artwork, going to Ulduar, or even dealing with Odyn himself (though there is something to be said for the agenting); but the fact that it doesn't have anything to do with Warriors. Any other class could have easily experienced the same story, and to a point they do, as the story really starts in Stormheim, rather than with Warriors themselves.

That's not to say you're wrong for liking it; I too enjoy Norse mythology and Viking lore, but for as much as I enjoy it, I'm able to recognize that the writing in WoW fails to draw a strong connection to the Warrior class. Then there are the other inconsistencies and contradictions within the Campaign story, but I'll spare you those details.

[Florena]

See, this is the misunderstanding.

None of the complaints regarding the class hall have had anything to do with the artwork, going to Ulduar, or even dealing with Odyn himself (though there is something to be said for the agenting); but the fact that it doesn't have anything to do with Warriors. Any other class could have easily experienced the same story, and to a point they do, as the story really starts in Stormheim, rather than with Warriors themselves.

That's not to say you're wrong for liking it; I too enjoy Norse mythology and Viking lore, but for as much as I enjoy it, I'm able to recognize that the writing in WoW fails to draw a strong connection to the Warrior class. Then there are the other inconsistencies and contradictions within the Campaign story, but I'll spare you those details.

Exactly. And the warrior champions are lacking imo compared to other classes.

Rogues get Valeera, Garona, Mathias Shaw etc. Mages get Kalecgos, Vargoth, Meryl etc. Paladins get Tyrosis and Liadrin. To name a few.


Warriors get four new vrykul characters, one new iron dwarf character and three bosses from Wrath. Not a single character from the alliance or horde. Not a single playable race. It doesn't feel like the Warrior class hall but the Vrykul/titan lore hall instead which is the problem.

[Clone]

Yeah pretty much, while I like viking stuff this whole thing just feels lazy and forced. I am also getting kinda tired with how heavily Warcraft has been leaning on Norse mythology.

[Archimtiros]

Exactly. And the warrior champions are lacking imo compared to other classes.

Rogues get Valeera, Garona, Mathias Shaw etc. Mages get Kalecgos, Vargoth, Meryl etc. Paladins get Tyrosis and Liadrin. To name a few.


Warriors get four new vrykul characters, one new iron dwarf character and three bosses from Wrath. Not a single character from the alliance or horde. Not a single playable race. It doesn't feel like the Warrior class hall but the Vrykul/titan lore hall instead which is the problem.

That's exactly what it is, it's simply a vehicle to explore the Vrykul/Titan story, rather than our own.

I wouldn't even be opposed to the new Vrykul Champions had they taken the time to develop their story, instead of being some random characters I watched die that one time. Heck, they could have been made to look at list visually distinct and appealing, but instead are completely generic. Hymdall has a unique model due to being a new dungeon boss; the Iron Dwarf, Ymiron, Thorim, and Hodir have not been updated since Wrath, Ragnvald and Svergan are literally generic Vrykul (Ragnvald is almost a duplicate of the Valdisdall Flightmaster), leaving Finna as the only "unique" follower which even resembles a Warrior, due to the tier set. Hell, most of them still use the same voice files from Wrath as well, which don't fit so well into the context of Legion.

Another big complaint I had from the beta is the fact that the place is empty. There are a lot of generic Vrykul, yes, but they're generic, they don't move, talk, interact, or do anything but take up space. At last count there were a grand total of 8 unique named, non-follower NPCs in the Skyhold. By contrast, most other Class Halls including Paladin, Rogue, and Hunter have ~48. Whether or not you personally like the Dalaran Sewers, Lights Hope Crypt, or the Hunting Lodge in Highmountain, when you visit those areas there's a sense of personality, and life. NPC's are moving around, interacting with the world around them, speaking to each other, hitting training dummies, conversing, praying, practicing archery, making poisons, and so on. In short, it feels like a place where NPCs live, but the Skyhold feels like what it is: A dungeon filled with static, generic NPCs.

As interesting as the Skyhold looks (and even it is simply a reused portion of the dungeon), or how interesting Vrykul/Titan story may be, the whole thing is just lazy.

[Florena]

They should have focused on gathering powerful warriors from around Azeroth. Maybe a few vrykul and titan related champions sure but I think at least 5 should have been pre existing npcs from around Azeroth.

[Bethrezen]

I don't hate it, nor do I really like it, due to the reasons already mentioned above. I just wish I knew what happened to Varok Saurfang after you go fuck off and die/join the Vrykul.

[Toppy]

Exactly. And the warrior champions are lacking imo compared to other classes.

Rogues get Valeera, Garona, Mathias Shaw etc. Mages get Kalecgos, Vargoth, Meryl etc. Paladins get Tyrosis and Liadrin. To name a few.


Warriors get four new vrykul characters, one new iron dwarf character and three bosses from Wrath. Not a single character from the alliance or horde. Not a single playable race. It doesn't feel like the Warrior class hall but the Vrykul/titan lore hall instead which is the problem.

WHY. ISNT' MAGNI. THE. BODYGUARD.

He could easily have replaced random-iron-dwarf. The iron dwarf who did nothing and was just there.

[Archimtiros]

WHY. ISNT' MAGNI. THE. BODYGUARD.

He could easily have replaced random-iron-dwarf. The iron dwarf who did nothing and was just there.

Magni wouldn't work, they don't use faction leaders on purpose, and he has another role to play altogether. That said, there are plenty of character they could have used instead.

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I don't hate it, nor do I really like it, due to the reasons already mentioned above. I just wish I knew what happened to Varok Saurfang after you go fuck off and die/join the Vrykul.

He hearths out.

[Kithelle]

Exactly. And the warrior champions are lacking imo compared to other classes.

Rogues get Valeera, Garona, Mathias Shaw etc. Mages get Kalecgos, Vargoth, Meryl etc. Paladins get Tyrosis and Liadrin. To name a few.


Warriors get four new vrykul characters, one new iron dwarf character and three bosses from Wrath. Not a single character from the alliance or horde. Not a single playable race. It doesn't feel like the Warrior class hall but the Vrykul/titan lore hall instead which is the problem.

Are there a whole lot of named Warriors out there? I mean other than Orcs and Magni and maybe Muradin come to mind I can't think of many others (And weren't people complaining about Orcs being everywhere and the focus of the last two expansions?), I mean we lost two of the best known Warriors in lore between WoD and now, being Garrosh and Varian.

Most heroes have a special class behind them...

[Clone]

Hamuul is a druid class follower isn't he?

[Toppy]

Hamuul is a druid class follower isn't he?

Yes, as is Kalec, Modera, Halduron, Chen, Liadrin, Aponi etc...

Classes are full of super important people. Nor is Magni a faction leader as he quiet notably states he is not the king anymore.

Also, you wouldnt really need to change much of anything for Magni to have replaced the Iron Dwarf since Ulduar is exactly where Magni is, and it made no sense that he wasnt helping defend Ulduar with you.

[Florena]

Are there a whole lot of named Warriors out there? I mean other than Orcs and Magni and maybe Muradin come to mind I can't think of many others (And weren't people complaining about Orcs being everywhere and the focus of the last two expansions?), I mean we lost two of the best known Warriors in lore between WoD and now, being Garrosh and Varian.

Most heroes have a special class behind them...

There are plenty, and since the place is an afterlife for warriors they could have even brought back a dead warrior or two like MU Grom. Yes people complained about orcs, but nobody is going to complain about having one or two orc champions in a class hall. And they could still have one or two new characters thrown as vrykul etc. Rogues for example have a pretty good line up but still have Tethys as a new character. It's pretty disappointing honestly looking at what warriors get compared to every other class I've looked at. There's not even an issue with important horde/alliance characters becoming champions because rogues get Shaw, who is the leader of SI 7. Liadrin is the leader of the blood knights, which before Legion were a horde group.

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Yes, as is Kalec, Modera, Halduron, Chen, Liadrin, Aponi etc...

Classes are full of super important people. Nor is Magni a faction leader as he quiet notably states he is not the king anymore.

Also, you wouldnt really need to change much of anything for Magni to have replaced the Iron Dwarf since Ulduar is exactly where Magni is, and it made no sense that he wasnt helping defend Ulduar with you.

I think Magni is being saved for a bigger role. I don't think that the Ulduar scenario is the last we'll see of him, so he may be off limits personally.

[Clone]

Hell, they could even use AU Grom join as atonement.

[Esotaric]

warrior has the best looking class halls, paladin 2nd best.

[Toppy]

warrior has the best looking class halls, paladin 2nd best.

Best looking? I suppose. Its also one of the smallest, most empty, and with the least having to do with players.

[Bigbazz]

I don't dislike the stereotypical disney norse/viking mythology style of Warrior, it just doesn't in any way make sense for the Warrior in this game. But whatever, it is what it is. So far I'm enjoying the expansion greatly.