Game still caters too heavily to pug/solo players

[Tenjen]

I don't understand what u mean by that. u say that majority didn't like the system coz it was very hard and today its not much easier?
I just say my opinion on some things it does not have to be connected directly. not talking about guild, I never went to heroics with guild.

I'am saying based on actual data from the TBC period, what you're saying does not reflect the behavior of most people in the game at the time. participation is nowhere close to after with the new system or today. In WoD, people were going wild on the manual LFG system for mythic dungeons.

What we have now in legion caters to various difficulty levels on a whole new scale. You can do normal if you're at that gear level, go higher and then even go use difficulty modifiers for mythic dungeons.

For the lower difficulties and heroics, you use the automatic search. The latter is best done with people you know or get to know.


**************

In relation to the topic at hand. The game is as social as YOU make it. You have to find new people, communicate and be social. At the time we even had a manual format (similar to the group finder we have now) for creating and finding groups but which no one used or even knew existed despite blizzard sending info about it out there.


All the tools are there for us. We have the automated LFG system, we have an excellent manual group finger, and nothing stops us from going vanilla/tbc and advertising on trade. Nothing is lost.

Infact the reason Blizz made the system in the first place was because of low participation, sure YOU might have been joining but data at the time showed that most players would just not bother because it was a nuisance. Automated LFG inspired participation.

Then blizzard built upon it with each expansion through LFR, then mythic dungeons and group finder to create groups and raids for world quests, world bosses, raid zones, PVP, dungeons, misc.

Its there to grab, just reach out and socialize. Blizz can't "force" you or anyone. past data showed that your supposed system didn't "force" people to socialize, it just made them drop the entire thing.

[Thage]

How is pugging not considered a communal aspect? You're literally engaging with other members of the community to beat content.

This. OP is being openly disingenuous at best, next thread.

[Sylvaeres]

The game caters too heavily to the pug/solo playstyle and completely neglects and doesn't foster a community of friends or a guild at all.

There's absolutely no content in the game right now that you cannot pug. From leveling to normal dungeons, to heroic dungeons, to even mythics. You can pug it all, without much effort or headache. Pain free, really.

Yes, there will be raids added, but raids are generally easily puggable outside mythics. There's no reason to join a guild outside of mythic raiding, 1% of the game.

All my friends and guildmates are pugging(or playing with a bf/gf or really really close friend) everything. We're all online, playing alone, with strangers we'll never see again.

We're all on different progression paths, we have no reason to play together because it's faster, easier, and more convenient to just pug with others on the same progression path as us.

Example(completely made up) oh I just started normals, but x friend is on mythics already, and my other X friends are on heroics, they have no reason to play with me and just tell me "go pug normals it's what we all did to get gear for heroics!". However, by the time I get heroic gear, my heroic friends will be onto mythics, and mythic friends will be waiting for raids or playing other games.


Back in TBC, if you wanted to do heroics, you better have friends or a guild because they were very hard and challenging. It forced people to make friends, find a guild, and want to play with eachother. They couldn't just as easily clear that content with pugs - it was suffering to pug heroics, and raids? No, you were never going to pug a raid until VERY late into the expansion.

Legion is fantastic, it has amazing design, buttloads of content, tons of stuff to do, really well designed 5 mans.

Yet...it lacks at being a MMO, a problem we've had since WOTLK. Without being a proper MMO, there's really nothing to keep you coming back or wanting to play the game. Without friends, the content just isn't as enjoyable. Pugging x dungeon for the 100th time isn't as fun as playing with your close buddies. You can't get those close friends, because the game pushes people who want to make close friends and play with them away. It just invites pug/soloist players.

I'm really unhappy with how anti-social and anti-MMO this game still is.

You're crying that you can pug content, and then calling the game anyi-social. I think you need to look up the definition of anti-social, and then go look in the bathroom mirror

[Alydael]

That's like saying: "this game still caters to most of the people that play this game."

I am in a good guild, so group content is fine for me, but I have met a lot of other players that shy away from group content because of player's really bad attitudes. I have also seen the bad attitude on display in groups I have been apart of, so I can't blame them.

I think it has to do with Blizz's gear model: locking the best gear behind group content. It seems to make a lot of people start acting crazy in group, I guess, because the best gear is on the line. The best gear should be achievable by two methods: group and solo. This would take the pressure off the groups and I think people would act more friendly.

It doesn't even really make sense to lock the best gear behind group content. Think about it: what proves a player's skill more: defeating a tough solo challenge- or being one of the 25 players that complete's a tough group challenge? I would say the solo challenge.

You can not be carried in a solo challenge- you have to beat it. We all know that in raids, there are always one or two players that aren't as good and are getting carried.

Heck, guilds even sell carries for pvp and pve in chat! Now why would you lock the best gear behind that again?

[Perkunas]

We are back to the problem with rose tinted glasses here. The fact is the general wow player has simply become better. If you go back now and try out the tbc heroics you will find they are laughably easy.

The problem isn't hard content. The problem is you.

If you want to be in a guild that's social about these things then go find one, they are definitely out there. I haven't done one pug group since release and I am 835 on my rogue now with all mythic dungeons on cd

Sadly, no. Cataclysm proved that the masses are incapable of playing at that level using LFG. Cata 5-man mechanics were not super complex they just required being followed and using CC. Most of the people who play this game are in fact terrible at it. You could put them in Vanilla, BC, Cata(pre-nerf) and they'd fail just the same.

[Eleccybubb]

Sadly, no. Cataclysm proved that the masses are incapable of playing at that level using LFG. Cata 5-man mechanics were not super complex they just required being followed and using CC. Most of the people who play this game are in fact terrible at it. You could put them in Vanilla, BC, Cata(pre-nerf) and they'd fail just the same.

Like you pretty much said. All Cata content just required some CC now and then in dungeons, hitting 1 button at a specific time and avoid standing in crap in the early gearing process as some dungeons did have a few things that hurt. If you find that hard then you should not be playing WoW.

[Perkunas]

Like you pretty much said. All Cata content just required some CC now and then in dungeons, hitting 1 button at a specific time and avoid standing in crap in the early gearing process as some dungeons did have a few things that hurt. If you find that hard then you should not be playing WoW.

I long for those dungeons. Still, even with basic mechanics that had to be followed and required CC people FUCKING FLIPPED OUT. You know why? Because most people suck at this game and are used to facerolling shit. The second they have to try they shut down like a full-blown Aspy trying to give a public address.

[Doomislav]

So, everything in the game can be pugged. Except the hardest content. But that doesn't matter...because it doesn't fit your narrative.

And no, back in TBC, if you wanted to run a dungeon, you could expect to spend 30 minutes+ spamming trade chat. You'd probably still PUG it, it just took a lot longer and stopped you from doing much of anything else with your time. I don't know about anyone else, but I like being able to finish the storyline in Highmountain, queue for Neltharion's Lair and almost immediately get a group so I can finish the quest and move on to the next zone.

Yep, the days of spamming trade chat to find a tank were not better. It wasn't 'more social' or friendlier, it was just annoying.

[Eleccybubb]

I long for those dungeons. Still, even with basic mechanics that had to be followed and required CC people FUCKING FLIPPED OUT. You know why? Because most people suck at this game and are used to facerolling shit. The second they have to try they shut down like a full-blown Aspy trying to give a public address.

Oh dude I remember fucking random when I was 333 ilvl. Was a random group and all I heard from a dps and healer were bitching about how CC doesn't belong in dungeons, interrupts are too hard and this mechanic is too hard because they were fucking consistently getting hit by it every single time.

[Tackhisis]

Screw guilds and pre-made groups.

[Aeula]

It's good that it's catering to solo and pugging more.

It isn't nice having all your friends joined at the hip.

I haven't been in a (Non-bank) guild since MoP and it's great.

[munkeyinorbit]

Hard grouping content = elitism?

Jesus christ.

Pretty much.

The only reason OP wants harder content is because he believes all PUGs are dirty casuals and don't deserve the gear. Only he and the select few that carry him through content actually "earn" gear. If only there was content that actually showed how good of a player you are so OP can get carried by his friends and show those dirty casuals what a real player looks like. Exactly like it was back in the day. 11 years ago. When WoW was good.

OP gets shitposter of the day. Just sounds like a big cry from someone who's friends didn't carry him to 110 and won't carry him in dungeons. Actually OP sounds like the guild clown where people tolerate him but wont run anything with him because he's the hunter screaming at the tank to pick up mobs that barrage pulled.

[pmkaboo]

All my friends and guildmates are pugging(or playing with a bf/gf or really really close friend) everything. We're all online, playing alone, with strangers we'll never see again.

dont blame the game because your friends dont want to play with you.

[Osmeric]

Catering to solo players is a big part of the reason WoW succeeded in the first place.

[Nalorakk]

I've been helping with and getting helped by friends who aren't on my current level, be it above or below.

If you want to play with friends, PLAY WITH FRIENDS

Nothing is stopping you or them from doing whatever together. Ever since I hit 110 I've hardly done anything except Suramar solo/pug.

[Warrax]

Legion being what OP said is more reasons to bring Legacy servers ala Nostalrius imo.

[namecraft]

I hate it when other people have fun.......

[Shibito]

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from being in a guild and doing all this content with guildies.

There are two options:
A) Do content with people you know and trust.
B) Take a chance with four randoms.

According to you both your guildies and even friends prefer randoms over doing content with you.
Let that sink in for a minute.. Your friends prefer a random roll of the dice over doing a dungeon with you.
That means the problem isn't with the game. It's with you.
You are either a bad player or perhaps your friends don't like you so much.

I am personally doing dungeons with my friends all the time.

Out of interest what server do you play on Kangodo?

[rhorle]

Legion being what OP said is more reasons to bring Legacy servers ala Nostalrius imo.

That won't solve the issue though. Being forced to do something when they don't choose to do it when they can isn't a solution.

[enragedgorilla]

If I had to beg in trade to get a 5 man /Raid etc just to see the end content , I would have quit long ago.

Random groups are no different now than they were...you are still HOPING people know what they are doing, you just aren't spamming chats in a main city HOPING people want to go, you can go quest /prof/ etc while you wait now.

No issue there.