Obese patients face surgery ban

[Kalis]

Also I'm not sure if a medic would be able to deny treatment due to the Hippocratic Oath.

British doctors are not bound by the Hippocratic Oath, whether they even take it or not depends on the medical school they went to.

[PragmaticGamer]

We have a houseguest (a friend of my wife) who's morbidly obese. She has several problems that need to be fixed by surgeries.

But because of her weight, they refuse to perform the surgeries. It's apparently a policy of doctors to only do surgeries to those who least need them.

This is in America, so it's not exactly limited to national healthcare systems.

[Deleted]

How would they lose weight? Running and exercising when it hurts to walk and stand?

Well for starters, as Spectral pointed out already, if you're at the point where you're obese and need surgery for a health problem exacerbated by your weight, then just eating less will immediately improve the situation.

Besides that, the NHS spends a lot of money on prevention. If you are overweight and actually want to make changes before it gets that bad, then you can visit your GP and get assistance with anything from your diet to a gym referral, where your fitness will be assessed and some appropriate exercises can be planned out. Nothing is going to improve if you just sit at home eating, watching TV, and avoiding movement because it hurts a bit.

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/loseweigh...taGPcando.aspx

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNH...referrals.aspx

[Mistame]

weight loss should be encouraged not legislated.

All that needs to be said.

[Grym]

How would they lose weight? Running and exercising when it hurts to walk and stand?

They don't have to exercise now, they can try take in less than 1800 calories a day, give it 3-6 months, they will be good to exercise.

They will feel a bit hungry at first because they are used to like fucking 5000 calories a day, but eventually their body will get used to it, and they certainly won't die to starvation.

*I feel gross defending them.

You should.

[Spectral]

We have a houseguest (a friend of my wife) who's morbidly obese. She has several problems that need to be fixed by surgeries.

But because of her weight, they refuse to perform the surgeries. It's apparently a policy of doctors to only do surgeries to those who least need them.

This is in America, so it's not exactly limited to national healthcare systems.

I believe the term you're looking for is "triage". Healthcare systems don't have infinite resources and providing expensive care to people that will immediately squander the benefits of those treatments is not a great way to go.

[Grym]

Sometimes I hope UK had a 2 tier healthcare system, a basic NHS and on top of that, a private healthcare like US do.

The NHS will cover generic illness, legit accident from everyday life. But NHS would refuse things like obesity, alcohol related issue, smoking related issue, accidents from out of the norm activity (mountain climbing and fall and shattered his spine etc).

If you want to smoke, drink, do dangerous exercise, be obese, sure, but pay for it with your premium yourself.

[dextersmith]

Besides that, the NHS spends a lot of money on prevention. If you are overweight and actually want to make changes before it gets that bad, then you can visit your GP and get assistance with anything from your diet to a gym referral, where your fitness will be assessed and some appropriate exercises can be planned out. Nothing is going to improve if you just sit at home eating, watching TV, and avoiding movement because it hurts a bit.

But d'em sexy rolls!!!!! lol

No, really, they're disgusting and I puked a little while typing.

- - - Updated - - -

You should.

You hurt my feelings and Ima eat until I need knee surgery! lol

[Grym]

You hurt my feelings and Ima eat until I need knee surgery! lol

Feel free but remember you need to pay for them via private healthcare now lol

[Deleted]

The good part is that it also applies to smoking to a degree, the bad part is that BMI is used.
It is for peolple with a BMI over 30 so if you weigh 97 kg and are 1,80m tall you fall into that category.
While I'm not against restricting non-life threatening surgeries for people that don't take any care of their body, I think it's too strict.
Not to mention "Obesity has been linked with being poorer, and living in so-called "obesogenic" environments, where unhealthy, fattening, food is easier to get than more expensive, healthy, alternatives. " as a part of the article says.
It also leaves out what to do with old people. From what I've seen it's either they are somewhat fat or somewhat thin, depending on the eating- and work habits throughout their lives. If you suddenly can't work as much when you are old you don't just stop eating. There is also the "shrinking" that comes with age.

With that being said if you are 1,60 m and weigh 200 kilos, yeah you can even die and I won't care.

[Sesshou]

Lets ban smokers, drinkers and people that suffer stupid accidents also than. Because stuff.

Those first two are things you do intentionally over a long period of time just like overeating. That is not the same as a momentary lapse in judgement resulting in a stupid accident.

Besides, don't we do that already? Pretty sure if you're an alcoholic in need of a liver transplant that you're lower on the list? Maybe I'm wrong, but if I am, I don't have a problem with it being handled that way.

Also, people want to make this into a 'they did it to themselves so punish them' thing. It isn't. It is a 'the supply is limited so lets do this for the people likely to get the most long term benefit'. Doing an operation when your lifestyle is going to cause that to be needed again versus someone else where they are likely to not need a repeat further down the line.

[Auxora]

As others have said, this isn't a UK-only or state healthcare thing. It's gone on for many years in the US but for different reasons. It's not that doctors decide who is more deserving of a surgery, which is fairly snobby and silly imo. In the US it's about liability, which is one of the main causes of insanely high healthcare costs in the US. Many patients in the US get turned down for surgeries by doctors, and then they have to travel long distances to find a doctor who will do a surgery if they are obese. It's just because there is a slightly higher risk of something going wrong with the anesthesia, etc. and the doctors don't want to risk a huge lawsuit.

If you're in the US or travel to the US and have a chance, watch TV in the daytime on a local channel for a couple of hours. I guarantee you will see at least 20 commercials from lawyers looking for "victims" wanting to sue employers, doctors, hospitals, etc. It's really pretty nuts. But the effect of all that (and the fact that the lawyers often win exorbitant awards in lawsuits) is high malpractice insurance premiums for doctors, which get passed on to patients in high healthcare costs, and jittery doctors reluctant to do surgeries with risk factors including obesity.

[Powerogue]

Wanted to highlight a move by one particular NHS Trust in the UK. Basically, people over a certain BMI, might be refused operations directly related to their weight, such as knee and hip operations, for at least a year. If they can shed 10% of their weight, they can rejoin the waiting lists at that moment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-37265752

What do you guys think a move such as this? As free healthcare systems struggle with the increasing number of obese people, changes need to be made. What are the alternatives? Fat-taxs on sugar foods etc have seen popularity plummet, so what are the other options?

(edit: forgot the link!)

I guess the logic of it makes sense. No point repairing their knees if their overwhelming lard is just going to ruin them again. At some point we have to prioritize people who are actually getting helped by the surgery.

[Kalis]

The good part is that it also applies to smoking to a degree, the bad part is that BMI is used.
It is for peolple with a BMI over 30 so if you weigh 97 kg and are 1,80m tall you fall into that category.
While I'm not against restricting non-life threatening surgeries for people that don't take any care of their body, I think it's too strict.
Not to mention "Obesity has been linked with being poorer, and living in so-called "obesogenic" environments, where unhealthy, fattening, food is easier to get than more expensive, healthy, alternatives. " as a part of the article says.
It also leaves out what to do with old people. From what I've seen it's either they are somewhat fat or somewhat thin, depending on the eating- and work habits throughout their lives. If you suddenly can't work as much when you are old you don't just stop eating. There is also the "shrinking" that comes with age.

With that being said if you are 1,60 m and weigh 200 kilos, yeah you can even die and I won't care.

In respect of the BMI, the doctors would have the ability to use common sense, so a bodybuilder or whatever would qualify for surgery.

[Kithelle]

BMI is such a stupid measure.
Because a lot of Rugby players & NFL Players are well over their BMI and Fit..

Other than that , maybe Fat Camps..
People could attend Fat Camps until they are a good weight.
Strict menus, exercise and workshop activities could be involved at fat camps.

Or Money incentives for people to loose so much weight by a certain time..

Better labeling of Food.. A lot of so called "Low Fat " foods contain lots of sugar & sodium..

It is...I don't remember if it was the BMI or what, but Michael Jordan, the greatest player that graced the NBA, was considered over. Basketball, a professional sport where players run back and forth all of their play time pretty much, and played over a 100 games a season...

Tis silly really...

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

BMI is such a stupid measure.
Because a lot of Rugby players & NFL Players are well over their BMI and Fit..

Other than that , maybe Fat Camps..
People could attend Fat Camps until they are a good weight.
Strict menus, exercise and workshop activities could be involved at fat camps.

Or Money incentives for people to loose so much weight by a certain time..

Better labeling of Food.. A lot of so called "Low Fat " foods contain lots of sugar & sodium..

Rugby and NFL fit? HAHAHA, Are you murrican? Just because you have some muscles and twice as much fat does not make you fit, or considered fit.

[Hotmail]

It is easy to condemn obesity, right up until you have to say "No" to such a magnificent breakfast...

[unbound]

Wanted to highlight a move by one particular NHS Trust in the UK. Basically, people over a certain BMI, might be refused operations directly related to their weight, such as knee and hip operations, for at least a year. If they can shed 10% of their weight, they can rejoin the waiting lists at that moment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-37265752

What do you guys think a move such as this? As free healthcare systems struggle with the increasing number of obese people, changes need to be made. What are the alternatives? Fat-taxs on sugar foods etc have seen popularity plummet, so what are the other options?

(edit: forgot the link!)

Really needs to be a multi-pronged approach, and this particular approach is short-sighted. Cutting out those types of surgeries will only make it harder for those people to lose weight.

They need to generate incentives for individuals, and incentives/disincentives for food industry (most of our obesity problem is related to the food products they are putting out...high calorie, overly salty/sweet which encourages overeating).

[Magicpot]

This would be okay if BMI is representative of health in any direct way.

It is not.

I know people whom BMI classes as obese who are super fit and muscular, and could crush me in any sort of sports competition very easily.

Flipside, I know people who aren't obese according to BMI but live very unhealthy lives.

[Dug]

They kind of do that in the states for weight loss surgeries. I believe it's to get the patient into the mind set of weight loss and show that they're serious about it.