Delas Moonfang - NE Paladin, your thoughts?

[Techno-Druid]

That was just the Bloodhoof tribe.

And while those groups may be small, they are still significantly more than the few scattered individuals as the Pandaren were outside Wandering Isle and Pandaria.

No it was the entire Tauren race, the tribes had been mostly united by Cairne Bloodhoof before the Horde (orcs and Darkspear) set foot on Kalimdor.

[Aquamonkey]

No it was the entire Tauren race, the tribes had been mostly united by Cairne Bloodhoof before the Horde (orcs and Darkspear) set foot on Kalimdor.

With the orcs’ help, Cairne and his Bloodhoof tribe were able to drive back the centaur and claim the grasslands of Mulgore for their own. For the first time in hundreds of years, the tauren had a land to call their own. Upon the windswept mesa of Thunder Bluff, Cairne built a refuge for his people, where tauren of every tribe is welcome. Over time, the scattered tauren tribes united under Cairne’s rule. There are a few tribes who disagree about the direction their new nation should take, but all agree that Cairne is the wisest and best suited to lead them towards the future.
--World of Warcraft manual

During the Third War, the mighty tauren chieftain Cairne Bloodhoof had a chance encounter with the orcish Horde that explored Kalimdor. After befriending Warchief Thrall, Cairne and his tribe were able to fend off their enemies while they made a new home in Mulgore; the city of Thunder Bluff. (Game Guide)

[Kallisto]

Paladins should be open to all races, there's literally no reason for it to not be that way. Lorewise anyone can be a priest, and any priest can be a paladin...

It doesn't work that way. A priest uses light and channels it to create spells.

A Paladin is imbued with light, essentially light is always inside it.

For the Forsaken, any free willed forsaken whose body is not being controlled elsewhere (Sir Zeliek's body was fully under the control of the scourge) and was imbued with light like a paladin would be under so much pain they would literally be unable to move. The Forsaken as a race would rather jump into fires and burn their own bodies to ash than go up against an army of paladins because of how the light affects them. How do you think they would react with light all over their body?

[Tuor]

Except that was a random garrison follower and Delas Moonfang becoming a paladin is shown inside the game. Something that not even the Sunwalkers had.

Even Kosak explained why Gie is an unique character. A pandarem death knight would need a completely new starting zone just to explain how the new Lich King raised the pandaren as death knights.

Actually, it would not. If you care to search in youtube, i'm kind a lazy today, in the video they created to unveal MoP, they stated there very clearly that the Pandas that came from Turtle Island are with us since the classic days, the went with the rest of Azeroth races to Outland, then to Northrend, and so on. The LK had plenty of time to currupt some of them, and we know he succed at least once.

As for NElf Paladins, i'm sceptical. Some people claiming that the fact that they already are Priests is a sign that they can become Paladins aswell. The problem is that NElf Priests are not the same order as other priests, they suposely, don't even use the light, they empower themselves in moonwells, also, NElf priests can't use shadow magic at all. Blizzard only made them priests, because otherwise, they would have to create a wholle new class, they stated that themselves several times.

A good example of a NElf Priest, is actually Tyrande, without a moonwell, he needs a bows, and that is what we see in WCIII, she can't wield light at all without a moonwel, unless, this has been retconed.

So, no... Unless, that a young NElf, one raised after the destruction of the Hyjal world tree, actually followed that path, which is still somehow uncommon.

[Aquamonkey]

As for NElf Paladins, i'm sceptical. Some people claiming that the fact that they already are Priests is a sign that they can become Paladins aswell. The problem is that NElf Priests are not the same order as other priests, they suposely, don't even use the light, they empower themselves in moonwells, also, NElf priests can't use shadow magic at all. Blizzard only made them priests, because otherwise, they would have to create a wholle new class, they stated that themselves several times.

A good example of a NElf Priest, is actually Tyrande, without a moonwell, he needs a bows, and that is what we see in WCIII, she can't wield light at all without a moonwel, unless, this has been retconed.

So, no... Unless, that a young NElf, one raised after the destruction of the Hyjal world tree, actually followed that path, which is still somehow uncommon.

You are correct that the NElf priests are not depicted correctly. Priestesses of the Moon are actual heavy armor warrior priests. Pretty much the same training as the Silver Hand paladins. They aren't exactly the same as paladins in that PotM seem to channel the Light the way Church of the Holy Light priests do instead of acting as vessels for it.

NElf priests do channel the Light.

is holy of prists and paladin is same energy?'/megics?
Both priests and paladins can wield the Holy Light. However, not all wield it through the same means (e.g., Elune, An'she)
So the end product (Holy Light spells, etc) is the same, just the philosophy that masters it different?
I think for game-related reasons, yes. Examples that come to mind are night elf priests and tauren paladins. (Loreology)

[Deleted]

the only thing that existed at the creation of xe'ra was light and void. it was right at the beginning of our plane of existence.

We might reach a theological debate here. God said "Let there be Light". In the Warcraft universe, it could very well be Elune that said/did that. Again, we don't know enough to be sure that Elune is made of Light. She might have very well created the Light. Then created the naaru from it.

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A good example of a NElf Priest, is actually Tyrande, without a moonwell, she needs a bows, and that is what we see in WCIII, she can't wield light at all without a moonwel, unless, this has been retconed.

I honestly don't know where you got this from. In War of the Ancients she channels Elune's powers to heal the wounded without a bow as well. In Stormrage I believe she summons a glaive made of moonlight. And she keeps getting visions at times from Elune without needing her bow.

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It doesn't work that way. A priest uses light and channels it to create spells.

A Paladin is imbued with light, essentially light is always inside it.

For the Forsaken, any free willed forsaken whose body is not being controlled elsewhere (Sir Zeliek's body was fully under the control of the scourge) and was imbued with light like a paladin would be under so much pain they would literally be unable to move. The Forsaken as a race would rather jump into fires and burn their own bodies to ash than go up against an army of paladins because of how the light affects them. How do you think they would react with light all over their body?

And tauren paladins? Are they also imbued with Light? not quite, for they are not even paladins truly. They're sun druids.

And night elves can be Elune paladins.

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Do Nelf Paladin.
Add Glyph of Silver Blueish Light.

Done.

The lore supports it.

That would actually be the easiest fix possible. I agree that this should be done.

[Flacko]

Will be like Tauren paladins, shit and useless nothing more. So please not..

[Tuor]

I honestly don't know where you got this from. In War of the Ancients she channels Elune's powers to heal the wounded without a bow as well. In Stormrage I believe she summons a glaive made of moonlight. And she keeps getting visions at times from Elune without needing her bow.

What i've stated, and this is just my PoV, was that without a nearby moonwell, she can't empower herself, and is no longer able to use light, reason why we see her using a bow instead, the bow is just the replacement tool for not having, and not the tool for...

... Sorry for my bad english. Anyway, this is just my PoV.

[Deleted]

What i've stated, and this is just my PoV, was that without a nearby moonwell, she can't empower herself, and is no longer able to use light, reason why we see her using a bow instead, the bow is just the replacement tool for not having, and not the tool for...

... Sorry for my bad english. Anyway, this is just my PoV.

I understood your point now. Well, not sure what to say of that. There's that instance of Stormrage when she was in a tent practicing martial arts or something and she has some sort of vision so she summons a glaive of moonlight, which would somewhat contradict your theory. Still, an idea worth thinking about.

And don't worry about your English, it's good, I just didn't get the idea the first time since I focused on the moonwell part.

[Aurabolt]

Explain the Undead Priests ! What you just said everybody knows it, and it's not a valid arguments Undead Priests weild the light since Vanilla. (Oh and don't tell me they use power word shield on them selves so the light doesn't burn them LMAO). Nelves & Worgens can be paladins of Mu'Sha, since the taurens are paladins of An'she. And same goes with every class that have the faith in the light (can be Priest) and can be Warrior, since the first Paladins were Priests that learned to fight or Warriors that learned how to weild the light.

...You just contradicted yourself there >.>;

Also, read this: http://wow.gamepedia.com/Cult_of_Forgotten_Shadow

Specifically:

The cult was created through the (re)discovery of the teachings of bishop Natalie Seline by Forsaken priests in Lordaeron after the capture and refurbishing of the Undercity. They teach that one must first know the light before one can know the dark^. Shadow priests generally do not practice openly, and not all members are Forsaken, although they formed the cult. Within the last few years, the number of non-Forsaken (and non-Horde) members within the cult has grown sharply, making the Cult open to members of all factions.


While many priests draw on powers such as the Holy Light or the goddess Elune, shadow priests turn to dark energies to accomplish their goals. The Light is often said to bring about feelings of positive emotion— hope, courage, comfort— and the like. Shadow abilities are just the opposite, able to impart feelings like despair, doubt, and panic. In a poetic sense, it can be said that the emotions which the Light brings about come from the "heart," whereas the emotions manipulated by shadow are often based on survival logic, and therefore affect the "mind."

And also:

The Forgotten Shadow is a corrupted reinterpretation of the beliefs and traditions practiced by the Holy Light, and is the religion of the Forsaken. The religion of those who follow and use the shadow is called the Cult of Forgotten Shadow. It is a religion of divine humanism.

Forsaken who once followed the tenets of the Holy Light often alter their philosophy upon their transformation. Former priests of the Holy Light lost their faith when they became undead. Lost and hurt, these priests founded a new religion based on a self-centered version of their former faith. Dubbed the Forgotten Shadow, this philosophy centers around self-empowerment and a desire to balance life with death. Many of the virtues and principles of the Holy Light exist within the Forgotten Shadow, but are twisted to an egocentric view. While small, the Cult of Forgotten Shadow grows in popularity, especially among Sylvanas’ dark rangers. The cult claims Deathknell as its home, as well as a section of the warrior sector in the Undercity, but it is not yet organized enough to claim much control over anything.


The Forgotten Shadow is the dark interpretation of the Holy Light's teachings, and many Forsaken find truth in its doctrine. Forsaken turn to the Forgotten Shadow for different reasons. Forsaken who feel isolated and outcast might join their brethren in support of the Forgotten Shadow to obtain a sense of solidarity, of belonging. Forsaken who feel betrayed by the Holy Light's failure to protect them sometimes find that turning their backs on the Holy Light is not enough; they throw aside the Holy Light and embrace its dark twin out of spite. Finally, some Forsaken simply see the value and practicality in the teachings of the Forgotten Shadow. A Forsaken of any class might emulate the values of the Forgotten Shadow, but devoted church members are usually priests. Some become lightslayers, and others become shadow ascendants. Even some dark rangers have joined the ranks of the cult.


The curse of undeath proved especially brutal to those humans who once followed the philosophy of the Holy Light. Their lives as Forsaken seem dreary, hateful and unspeakably cruel. Many allowed anger and bitterness to foster in their souls. They had believed in the teachings of the Light, and now find themselves shrouded in eternal darkness. Such Forsaken founded the Cult of Forgotten Shadow.

I explained it before so let me spell it out for you: Forsaken Priests DO NOT use the Holy Light, The Naaru, Elune, An'she, Loa or any other divine/spiritual source of power. AT ALL. Therefore, they CANNOT be Paladins.

For gameplay reasons, they are called Priests but it would be more accurate to call them Shadow Priests just like you would call a Blood Elf Paladin a Blood Knight or a Tauren Paladin a Sun Walker. For gameplay reasons, they are called Paladins despite the different philosophies. Just in case you decide to go there, Trolls learned the ways of Druidism from the Loa while Gilnean Worgen--not just Worgen Druids--draw strength from the demigod Goldrinn, which Celestine of the Harvest kept alive in Gilneas (referring to it as "The Old Ways"). Of course, Worgen Druids are more attuned to Goldrinn thanks to their duality and dedication to what had long been called The Wolfcult.

Back on topic.

The Shadow Spec is more in line with where/how a Forsaken Priest harnesses its power. Just like Light cannot exist without Shadow, Shadow cannot exist without Light. Forsaken Priests use Shadow Magic to heal their allies, not Light. TRUE Divine Power would hurt them. Since even Priests of the Holy Light (Human, Dwarf, Gnome, Worgen, Draenei, Blood Elf and Goblin) have studies the basics of Shadow Magic, ihey could use Shadow Power to "Heal" a Forsaken.

Paladins/Sun Walkers/Blood Knights are in a whole other class, though. They don't just "use" the Holy Light. They use their bodies as a conduit. Their powers are faith-based and requires enormous mental and spiritual training in addition to the obvious martial training. Forsaken Priests use the Cult of the Shadow as a workaround but it's not the same. Here's an in-game example. During the Icecrown progression to unlock Crusaders' Pinnacle, you fight Undead Paladins raised by the Lich King. They attack you with Unholy Light, which damages you. Not heals but damages. Therefore, the Undead are incapable of using the Holy Light in the same way the living can. Shadow Magic simply allows them to use the power but it's still not the same.


TL;DR: Just because you don't like or understand why Forsaken Paladins can't happen doesn't mean they can or should.


Trolls could definitely become Paladins just like Night Elves could. Trolls simply need to find the right Loa who could grant them the power. Night Elf Paladins can happen now the same way Tauren Paladins happened. Dezco, who was originally a Druid simply found a new way to channel An'she's power and founded The Sun Walkers as a result. It hasn't been outright confirmed yet but the Tauren of the Cenaurion Circle are pretty sure An'she amd Elune are actually the same being. A theory their Night Elven counterparts reject. Looks like we're gonna have to wait until a Night Elf Druid pulls a Dezco I guess.

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You are correct that the NElf priests are not depicted correctly. Priestesses of the Moon are actual heavy armor warrior priests. Pretty much the same training as the Silver Hand paladins. They aren't exactly the same as paladins in that PotM seem to channel the Light the way Church of the Holy Light priests do instead of acting as vessels for it.

...Correct.

Therefore, what could happen is Tyrande or one of her understudies wanting to take the Priestesses of the Moon back to its WotA roots. They bring Sentinels and Priestesses together and form a new faction that essentially functions like the Silver Hand or the Blood Knights. Shandris Feathermoon or Jarod Shadowsong (assuming they're botb still alive) would be good candidates to head that in my book.

[Aquamonkey]

I explained it before so let me spell it out for you: Forsaken Priests DO NOT use the Holy Light, The Naaru, Elune, An'she, Loa or any other divine/spiritual source of power. AT ALL. Therefore, they CANNOT be Paladins.

Can you please explain how "light" works? The lore states that undead are physically incapable of using the light, much like the Broken, but then we have Forsaken players casting healing spells, and Sir Zeliek in Naxxramas using pseudo-paladin abilities.
Without spoiling too much, we can tell you that wielding the Light is a matter of having willpower or faith in one's own ability to do it. That's why there are evil paladins (for example, the Scarlet Crusade and Arthas before he took up Frostmourne). For the undead (and Forsaken), this requires such a great deal of willpower that it is exceedingly rare, especially since it is self-destructive. When undead channel the Light, it feels (to them) as if their entire bodies are being consumed in righteous fire. Forsaken healed by the Light (whether the healer is Forsaken or not) are effectively cauterized by the effect: sure, the wound is healed, but the healing effect is cripplingly painful. Thus, Forsaken priests are beings of unwavering willpower; Forsaken (and death knight) tanks suffer nobly when they have priest and paladin healers in the group; and Sir Zeliek REALLY hates himself. (AskCDev1)

Are there long-term effects on an undead who is in regular contact with the Holy Light in a positive way?
It is difficult to say, as there are no known records of undead wielding the Holy Light before the Third War. There are reports, however, that some Forsaken have slowly experienced a sharpening of their dulled senses of touch, smell, etc., as well as an increase in the flashes of positive emotions that have otherwise become so rare since their fall into undeath. Unfortunately, this may be the cause of the Forsaken priesthood's increased attempts at self-destruction; regaining these senses would force the priests to smell their own rotting flesh, taste the decay in their mouths and throats, and even feel the maggots burrowing within their bodies.


When undead use or are healed by the Holy Light, does it cause them any actual damage or harm, or does it only cause them pain (in addition to the intended effects of the spell)?
Channeling the Light in any way, or receiving healing from the Light, only causes pain. Forsaken priests do not disintegrate or explode from channeling the Light for an extended period of time… though they may wish they would. (AskCDev2)

[Deleted]

Actually, it would not. If you care to search in youtube, i'm kind a lazy today, in the video they created to unveal MoP, they stated there very clearly that the Pandas that came from Turtle Island are with us since the classic days, the went with the rest of Azeroth races to Outland, then to Northrend, and so on. The LK had plenty of time to currupt some of them, and we know he succed at least once.

As I said, the wandering pandaren were a rare view on Azeroth.

[EternalBany]

or better yet undead paladins
not sure why i have to play elf or cow, the worst of all

[Benomatic]

If high elves could teach 100 humans to master the arcane then why can't night elves be paladins.

I'd also be for troll, gnome and undead paladins.

[RedNight at MMOC]

The lore is evolving, and as much as I hate the introduction of new Race/Class combinations Blizzard is doing a decent job and justifying the changes.

Would make sense with the whole "army of the light" and Elune finally shown as a being of the light (she "forged" the Naaru).

That is a legend, not a fact. In the Val'sharah cinematic, a force of the moon takes Ysera's spirit and brings it to rest and it is assumed this force is Elune. However, this is also just a theory - there is no concrete evidence that Elune is connected to the Naaru, nor is there any concrete evidence that Elune even exists (an unknown force could be the "moon spirit," like a reclusive Naaru).

I'd also be for troll, gnome and undead paladins.

Undead are literally burned when they try to cast Light spells, which is why Undead Priests make no sense and nor would Undead Paladins.

[Deleted]

I don't see any reason that any race that can be priests couldn't also be paladins.

Problem with that is that the following races shouldn't even be using the "Holy Light" kit of the Priests:

Night Elves (Light of Elune, and yes it USED to be a different power)
Trolls (Should be using Voodoo)
Tauren (Nature/Sun magic ala Druids)

[Hallowseve17]

They're teasing us. I would love to see some more race/class combinations. Some ideas make zero sense, ideas like night elf paladins and troll paladins, to me, make perfect sense. I don't think we need orc paladins running around. Anyway, I like the idea of night elf paladins, it would be neat to see them get added. All of these unplayable race/class combinations such as the orc druid in Warspear and now Delas Moonfang...it's gotta mean something.

[Grenzstein]

Elune was already retconned to be a being of Light. There is no issue whatsoever on NE Paladins / Holy Priests. In fact i'd say it'll be a really good addition.
People saying that Elune is a "different thing" are delusional. The quests in Legion are saying otherwise, stop living in Warcraft 3. So much has changed since then it's no use to complain about that.

[Aurabolt]

--SNIP--

I'm well aware of those blue posts and I didn't lie or give misinformation with what I said. I'm the wrong person to direct those comments at.

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Elune was already retconned to be a being of Light. There is no issue whatsoever on NE Paladins / Holy Priests. In fact i'd say it'll be a really good addition.
People saying that Elune is a "different thing" are delusional. The quests in Legion are saying otherwise, stop living in Warcraft 3. So much has changed since then it's no use to complain about that.

Pretty sure this was never made clear before. yeah, Priestessess of the Moon draw their power from Elune directly but it was never actually stated what type of power it was aside from it being Holy. As we know with Troll and Forsaken Priests it doesn't necessarily mean the Holy Light

[Tuor]

If high elves could teach 100 humans to master the arcane then why can't night elves be paladins.

I'd also be for troll, gnome and undead paladins.

The main problem with NElfs, is that they live in a society that has pretty much been closed over themselves, its the kind of society that atributes roles by gender, whille they recently (acording to lore) allowed males to become part of the sentinnels, they still live in a society that demands that males should be tested by Druids, and females to become part of the sentinnels, and later priests if they are sensitive to ear the call of Elune.

Yet, this is changing, and there is no reason, for lets say, a young NElf that failled in the Drudism test to try something else other then staying all day at home taking care of his chieldren whille the his wife is fighting in the bushes... I still doubt any of the older NElfs would apreacite his decision. But yes, there is a loopholle so that NElfs can become Paladins.