Legion PvP Guide

[PizzaSHARK]

That's what we pretty much have. You're not going to lose because someone has 2% more stats than you. The gear gap is smaller than ever.

Which begs the question of why a gear gap needs to exist at all. If it's insignificant, then the game obviously loses nothing by removing it entirely.

[Baracuda]

I'm glad you know what I do and don't do in the game.

It doesn't matter how good you believe you are, if you faced an Ilvl 580 player in World PvP in MoP the only way you'd win was either the element of surprise, them being bad at PvP or a combination of both. If you're going to imply you're some PvP god whose superior to the rest of us you better have proof to back it up.

[Sencha]

It is the failed WotLK model revisited where PVE gear is #1 and better PVP gear is gated by rating.

It was about time they put such system in place. You prefer the old system where you can get the best pvp gear with low to average rating? or even worse with no rating at all?

[Deleted]

Which begs the question of why a gear gap needs to exist at all. If it's insignificant, then the game obviously loses nothing by removing it entirely.

I think that this is their plan in the long run but they want to go there step by step so the players can get used to it

[PizzaSHARK]

I think that this is their plan in the long run but they want to go there step by step so the players can get used to it

Yeah, that'd make sense. Make the gap smaller and smaller with each season until there isn't a gap by the end of Legion?

[Crruor]

Which begs the question of why a gear gap needs to exist at all. If it's insignificant, then the game obviously loses nothing by removing it entirely.

Because wow isnt a pvp game, nor is it a pve game. Its a mmorpg, and the game is designed so you actually play it, not only the pvp part.

[Deleted]

Yeah, that'd make sense. Make the gap smaller and smaller with each season until there isn't a gap by the end of Legion?

next expansion is my guess.

have a set template for every spec in PvP that doesn't change no matter what gear you have.

[PizzaSHARK]

Because wow isnt a pvp game, nor is it a pve game. Its a mmorpg, and the game is designed so you actually play it, not only the pvp part.

That makes absolutely no sense at all. What are you trying to say?

[Kagthul]

Which begs the question of why a gear gap needs to exist at all. If it's insignificant, then the game obviously loses nothing by removing it entirely.

Because without progression, there is no incentive to do it, particularly rated.

That simple.

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It was about time they put such system in place. You prefer the old system where you can get the best pvp gear with low to average rating? or even worse with no rating at all?

Uhh.. yeah, because that means that there is no effective gear gap... because every single person can acquire it.

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Back in MoP I was still able to kill fully Heroic geared people.

I'll be doing rated PvP anyway, so my gear won't be a lot worse than a fully mythic geared person (which is going to be rare to run into anyway)

Given the amount of blatantly wrong information you've been posting, i have no belief of any kind that youll be able to break the 2300+ rating required to get near Mythic raid iLevel from PvP.

And there's a world of difference between MoP (where Raid gear was higher iLevel than what could be obtained in PvP) and Legion (where the Stat Templates simply do not exist in World PvP).

Right now, PvP is "balanced" around a lot of abilities being heavily nerfed in PvP (tank damage reduction cooldowns, self healing are usually nerfed over 50% by template PvP - DK self healing is hit 75%!) which simply does not happen in World PvP. Tank CDs and Self-healing are at 100% full PvE values in World PvP. There was a DK soloing 6+ people at a time at the end of the beta - and never dropping below 80% health.

TLDR:

You've got no idea what you're talking about. Also, endlessly repeating that the gear gap will be less than 3% wont make it true. Its the same as it was in WoD between Honor gear and CQ gear.

And the Artifact is worse than any gear gap ever was. For some classes, the difference between a fresh 110 artifact (about 13-14 traits) and a mostly-unlocked one (all traits except the "capper/time-waster" 15% damage/damage reduc/healing talent at the very end) can be 60-70% more dps or healing.

[Crruor]

Anyone else really annoyed by how pvp gearing works? I like the honour talents, but the gearing itself is atrocious. And i think it will get much worse as time goes on due to the fact that once you have a few pieces the chances of duplicates being much higher.

[Krusza]

Because without progression, there is no incentive to do it, particularly rated.

That simple.

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Uhh.. yeah, because that means that there is no effective gear gap... because every single person can acquire it.

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Given the amount of blatantly wrong information you've been posting, i have no belief of any kind that youll be able to break the 2300+ rating required to get near Mythic raid iLevel from PvP.

And there's a world of difference between MoP (where Raid gear was higher iLevel than what could be obtained in PvP) and Legion (where the Stat Templates simply do not exist in World PvP).

Right now, PvP is "balanced" around a lot of abilities being heavily nerfed in PvP (tank damage reduction cooldowns, self healing are usually nerfed over 50% by template PvP - DK self healing is hit 75%!) which simply does not happen in World PvP. Tank CDs and Self-healing are at 100% full PvE values in World PvP. There was a DK soloing 6+ people at a time at the end of the beta - and never dropping below 80% health.

TLDR:

You've got no idea what you're talking about. Also, endlessly repeating that the gear gap will be less than 3% wont make it true. Its the same as it was in WoD between Honor gear and CQ gear.

And the Artifact is worse than any gear gap ever was. For some classes, the difference between a fresh 110 artifact (about 13-14 traits) and a mostly-unlocked one (all traits except the "capper/time-waster" 15% damage/damage reduc/healing talent at the very end) can be 60-70% more dps or healing.

I've done it before and I'll do it again. Nice assumption there.

I'm not talking about the gear gap in world PVP being small. Why are you assuming I mean world PvP when I mention anything? I'm not spreading anything blatantly wrong, I was talking about actual PvP, like everyone else in the first couple of pages, and I was right. The gear gap is tiny there. You're the one talking about world PvP. The only time I mentioned world PvP was when I said that it was possible to kill BiS players in MoP (if they weren't a warlock or rogue I'll add). So no, I didn't say anything wrong.

Yes, world PvP is going to have an awful gear gap especially with artifact and legendaries. I still don't care. I was done expecting world PvP to ever be balanced about 5 years ago and I'd gladly sacrifice it for balance in rated PvP.

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It doesn't matter how good you believe you are, if you faced an Ilvl 580 player in World PvP in MoP the only way you'd win was either the element of surprise, them being bad at PvP or a combination of both. If you're going to imply you're some PvP god whose superior to the rest of us you better have proof to back it up.

Clever usage of Engineering and other world items, actually.

[PizzaSHARK]

Because without progression, there is no incentive to do it, particularly rated.

That simple.

Literally every single other PvP game in existence which does not dole out equipment that gives stat advantages proves this to be quantifiably wrong.

Overwatch doesn't do it, yet people play it and take it seriously. They take Dota 2 seriously. They take CSGO seriously. They take SC2 seriously. They take Halo seriously. They take Heroes of the Storm seriously.

None of those games award players with anything that gives them a statistical advantage over the other players for winning, yet they're all immensely popular. Dota 2 regularly has tournament pools that are bigger than the prize pools of the next closest competitors combined. People take playing ranked very seriously, they care very much about their MMR - yet they receive virtually no reward for playing, other than the joy of playing itself and the e-peen value of having a higher MMR than the next guy.

You are absolutely wrong.

[bewbew]

Literally every single other PvP game in existence which does not dole out equipment that gives stat advantages proves this to be quantifiably wrong.

Overwatch doesn't do it, yet people play it and take it seriously. They take Dota 2 seriously. They take CSGO seriously. They take SC2 seriously. They take Halo seriously. They take Heroes of the Storm seriously.

None of those games award players with anything that gives them a statistical advantage over the other players for winning, yet they're all immensely popular. Dota 2 regularly has tournament pools that are bigger than the prize pools of the next closest competitors combined. People take playing ranked very seriously, they care very much about their MMR - yet they receive virtually no reward for playing, other than the joy of playing itself and the e-peen value of having a higher MMR than the next guy.

You are absolutely wrong.

FPS and MOBAs are not MMORPGs. They are played by different people with different tastes.

MMORPGs are about building up your character. Making him unique and different from others. Customizing looks, gear options. Being a perfeccionist with enchants, gems.

Elite gear is 2500 rating(or 2700? I don't recall) now. And it's RNG. So unless you are going for 2,500 rating, you have no incentive to even participate, as it's a more efficient use of your time to do hardcore PvE and be on a equal footing with people who are 2900+ Rated.

As Kagthul said, by doing Normal Raids you are on equal gear lvl than people with 2,300 rating. So if they are 1,500 champions, they might as well never PvP.

WoD system of gearing was fine. It was perfect, even.

Blizzard just went full retard with the presets.

They were meant to balance SKILLS differently from PvP and PvE. That's it. Not...this abomination it has become.

[Adolecent]

FPS and MOBAs are not MMORPGs. They are played by different people with different tastes.

MMORPGs are about building up your character. Making him unique and different from others. Customizing looks, gear options. Being a perfeccionist with enchants, gems.

You hit the nail spot on. They are ripping the heart out of WoW with this expansion.

[PizzaSHARK]

FPS and MOBAs are not MMORPGs. They are played by different people with different tastes.

MMORPGs are about building up your character. Making him unique and different from others. Customizing looks, gear options. Being a perfeccionist with enchants, gems.

Guess what? You can already do that with transmog. Reward players that achieve certain ratings or positions in a season with unique, cosmetic equipment usable for transmog. There is already precedent for this in the game, and it's not a new concept.

How do you think Overwatch, CSGO, Heroes of the Storm, and so many other games are financially successful? They cater to the player's desire to stand out, to be different, to look the way they want to look. That desire is not exclusive to MMORPGs or RPGs in general, else games like League of Legends would not be making millions of dollars off of selling purely cosmetic skins, else people would not be able to make a full-time living off of selling cosmetic Dota 2 and CSGO items for real money. Why do you think there was such a shitstorm over the whole Rio Olympics items in Overwatch? Sure, partly because people (rightfully) accused Blizzard of lying to them (more like omission of important details than actually lying), but also because people wanted those unique skins so they could look different, so they could stand out, so they could look the way they wanted to look.



You're completely wrong. While a person that plays CSGO may not be into raiding or dungeon crawling, they absolutely have the same base desires and wants that that hardcore raider has. They want to progress (represented in WoW by increasingly shiny purples, represented in CSGO by MMR), they want to stand out, they want to feel unique.

If this was not true, there would not be a combined multi-billion dollar "industry" revolving around creating and selling purely cosmetic items in games. But there is, and most of those games are not MMOs.

You hit the nail spot on. They are ripping the heart out of WoW with this expansion.

No. What they are doing is responding to changes in demographics and what people actually want. Legion is already far more successful than Warlords was, and probably Mists. Numerous people have said that they came back for Legion and that they love it.

And guess what? Legion has done away with a lot of the old school grinding. People don't want to grind. Just because you might like grinding doesn't mean the majority of people do, else Blizzard would be adding grinding to the game, not removing it.

[Deleted]

Legion has done away with a lot of the old school grinding. People don't want to grind. Just because you might like grinding doesn't mean the majority of people do, else Blizzard would be adding grinding to the game, not removing it.

this observation is on point

[Crruor]

They should just keep the old gearing system in place, where you gain honour for which you can buy stuff, and for the better stuff you need better rating but the templates and honour talents also stay, so the honour you gain is more for thew few 0.1%s and for world pvp and pve. Rng gearing sucks in pvp.

[Deleted]

Just because you might like grinding doesn't mean the majority of people do, else Blizzard would be adding grinding to the game, not removing it.

There's still a grind, it's simply in a different form now. In the past it was gear, now it's honour/prestige.

Don't delude yourself, they haven't removed it - they simply changed it.

[Odyseas]

The whole prestige idea,which was supposed to bring ppl back to pvp, is stupid af. You have to spend endless hours farming BG's in order to unlock all the new talents (last one unlocks at level 46 i think) and then they expect ppl to reset them to get cool new "cosmetic" rewards. The thing is, if you dont have all the pvp talents you are at a significant disadvantage compared to someone who does because technically you are missing spells and passives. Moreover, since you are allowed to change talents before the arena match begins people will want to try and optimize their spec depending on the enemy composition. Well, guess what you wont be able to do that if you dont have every single talent unlocked. I don't think that anyone will trade having the entire of his arsenal wiped out just so that he can receive a stupid cosmetic reward.
The whole artifact idea is cool as a concept but this is screwing over ppl who focus on pvp instead of pve. I am now forced to do daily world quests and shit in order to unlock the entire thing (last talent point requires 1.2m AP). I am not sure how much AP ranked arena matches will reward but i am willing to bet that it will not be anywhere near the amount of AP ppl who raid will receive. So you are forced to PvE in order to PvP.
World PvP is also stupid AF because apart from the honor talents you will have no advantage against the PvErs because the gear of the average PvPer will be shit compared to that of someone with good pve gear. It will be the same shitty situation like it was in MoP in timeless isle.
And dont get me started about balance. Melee's are just retarded. I've seen people on twitch roflstomping ppl with TSG combos simply by tunneling healers and killing them in less than 5 secs.
Have fun.

[PizzaSHARK]

There's still a grind, it's simply in a different form now. In the past it was gear, now it's honour/prestige.

Don't delude yourself, they haven't removed it - they simply changed it.

It's a grind in the same sense that getting a higher rank in COD or BF unlocks new abilities or equipment slots, sure. It's also a grind that has a defined end point and will never get longer.

Do you also consider leveling from 1 to 110 a grind?