Very dissapointed in Athissa and Dargul the Underking

[Candy Cough]

When legion first was announced, there was a page of major characters for the expansion, who of which were Athissa and Dargul
Though their peformances in the expansion, has been lacking if not downright pathetic

Athissa is suposedly this fanatical and awesome naga leader, and is introduced at the end of the zone, 3 quests in and guess what, the player single handedly kills her off, what a waste of effort for the model. You'd think with a powerful artifact like the Tidestone there'd be alot more Naga to attempt to take it, instead we get a buch of push overs that has problems fending off some angry spirits. Did blizzard forget how good the Naga were in Vash'jir? It's like the only zone to date where the player characters actually lose, since the Naga comes in such overwhelming numbers and is always one step ahead of the players.

Then we have Dargul the underking. I will just say it right now that I was admiring this oversized midget at the start. The way he went fuck all to those who tried to bring him to justice and just smacked his hammer around and raped everyone, epic, but the Drogbar was just a lackluster and pathetic threat overall that didn't feel like much. We have a person who wields a damn pillar of creation, THE HAMMER OF KHAZGORROTH with one single strike erazed an entire village from the map, you'd think it'd be on Frostmourne levels of powerful. He gets killed off by 5 people, how that is even possible is beyond me, but I guess with the artifacts, he didn't stand much of a chance anyway.

I just can't help but feel that these two characters offered so much but yet were gutted in the end. It would atleast be cool to see them have some more story outside of the zones or something, or maybe in a later patch, where Athissa flees back to the seas and brings back a near infinite army of Naga elites to capture Suramar or something, or We being unable to retrieve the hammer of Khaz'gorroth then Dargul uses all of its powers and shatters the entire zone of highmountain and transforms it into a Drogbar paradise with Lava and shit everywhere

Heck, even Xavius gets some awesome time where he single handedly defeats both Malfurion and Cenarius Easily and one shots Ysera, AN ASPECT!

[Grenzstein]

Everyone knew they were just minor characters that were going to get their teeth kicked in fast. Athissa is just there to get us to do Eye of Azshara and Dargul is an instance boss. They both got a nice ending and i didn't think they were wasted at all.

[RedNight at MMOC]

Both Dargrul and Athissa have their significance, but if you want to cry about how Athissa was taken down by a single player then I will tell you Kil'Jaeden was taken down by only twenty five, and he is the right-hand demon of Sargeras himself.

[Koryn123]

Both Dargrul and Athissa have their significance, but if you want to cry about how Athissa was taken down by a single player then I will tell you Kil'Jaeden was taken down by only twenty five, and he is the left-hand demon of Sargeras himself.

Right hand. Archimonde is the left. It goes Sargeras --> Kil'jaeden --> Archimonde --> Lieutenants like Mannoroth and Tichondrius --> Minions of all those folks.

[RedNight at MMOC]

Right hand. Archimonde is the left. It goes Sargeras --> Kil'jaeden --> Archimonde --> Lieutenants like Mannoroth and Tichondrius --> Minions of all those folks.

Odd, I thought Archimonde was more powerful than Kil'Jaeden and therefore the right hand of Sargeras, however I just looked it up and Kil'Jaeden is indeed the right hand. Will correct my original post.

[RedNight at MMOC]

Which is all the more weird, given that we fought Kil'jaeden first, and then Archimonde. Oh, well.

Players fought Archimonde first in Mount Hyjal and then Kil'Jaeden in the Sunwell.

[Kralljin]

Idk, Dargrul did at least something, wrecked some Tauren here and there.

But Athissa just rolled over.

Comparing them to Xavius on the other is a different story, this is the first time we actually see the Emerald Nightmare and Xavius in full force in the game, it better should be impressive

[Radaney]

People actually expected more than what we got?

[RedNight at MMOC]

Ah, right. I forgot about Hyjal because I think time travel is one of the worst storytelling devices imaginable.

Of course, then WoD was alt-dimension, which is arguably worse.

It got worse when Blizzard announced that the Burning Legion transcends all realities and to this day it is still canon...

[Rygore]

Archimonde was fought in Warcraft when he took down Nordrassil, he was back in Draenor because time travel

[Koryn123]

Yeah, while I understand your complaint, this is the issue with the mechanics of MMO's versus the lore/"realism" of stories.

Another case in point: every retribution paladin is the Lead Pally with Ashbringer, right now.

At some point you just have to accept that it's a game and the game will bring in limitations to the story.


THAT SAID...I've been rolling my eyes a lot at the storylines in Legion. They lean heavily on "Chase Badperson X through zone, fight them multiple times to 1% health, they miraculously escape, okay now kill them."

And don't even get me started on the Exodar subplot where we learn that Velen ZOMG had a corrupted son...immediately after we kill him. I was supposed to feel awful but I just laughed--it was this huge emotional moment with absolutely no prior buildup whatsoever, and then the ensuing crisis of faith was very, very hard to believe. You lost your planet and tens of thousands of people and didn't have a crisis of faith, but now losing your son that you had kidnapped as a baby is what shakes you? C'mon. And ps...why wasn't the final defense ON THE NAARU?! Pretty absurd overall.

The only powerful moments I've experienced in the quests (I've done Azsuna, Val'sharah, and I'm 3/4 through Highmountain) have been the old blue dragon stuff in Azsuna because it was like "aww the old dragon is dying and his kids still need his guidance that's sad ;n;" and also when you're saving baby blue whelps, and sad when you see dead ones (even though in WotLK you rampage through the Blues' home murdering whelps left and right with no remorse). Also when saving kids in the Exodar. That tugged at the heartstrings a little too, especially when they were like where's my mom/dad and whatnot.

So far, they really haven't done a great job at really driving home just how big of a threat these enemies are. With the naga, I was like "woah, a kind of big-ish army of naga" then proceeded to just totally wipe the floor with them. I assumed that with Azshara herself being there, it'd be a little bigger.

And the nightmare stuff in Val'sharah, I feel like it kind of snuck up on you. I was just skipping through the daisies of that beautiful zone when people are like "hmm i think there might be some spooky stuff going on" then boom, important figures are corrupted and Xavius has captured Malfurion and Tyrande is like "even though none of this is your fault, Horde person, I'm still gonna treat you like dirt and threaten you every time I suspect that we might fail to rescue my husband who really should have seen this coming since it's like the exact same plot from the Stormrage novel. Now, even though I'm being super mean to you, will you please help me? Good, now stop being such a lazy savage evil Horde person and do everything I say with no thanks in return. Wow, Malfurion isn't rescued yet? Jeez, you really suck! I'm doing my part, standing here doing nothing while I send you in to do my dirty work, so carry some of your own weight! You'd better pray that we rescue my husband before he dies, for your sake, if you know what's good for you, capiche, screw it, I'm not even gonna be subtle, if he dies, I'll kill you for failing me."

I was reeeeeeaaaally feeling motivated to help her out in her time of need when all she did was insinuate that it was all my fault and if I didn't save him, she'd kill me.

It's good that Blizzard is making important characters react differently to people they should distrust, but they need to give you a reason to feel like helping someone is worth it, lorewise. From the player character's lore perspective, they didn't get anything for their trouble. Of course, from my perspective, I got quest rewards. But those aren't always meaningful as far as the story is concerned.

It must be especially weird to be a Horde druid, leader of the Cenarion Circle her husband founded and must still be greatly involved in, and then to be treated like a criminal by her.

I mean sure, if it were an Orc warrior decked out in Horde symbols and Warsong memorabilia, I'd understand her scathing attitude, but I'm the Highlord of the Silver Hand, an organization with the Argent Crusade at its core, carrying on the original spirit of both the Crusade, and the Argent Dawn, of putting racial and factional prejudices aside and uniting under one banner to purge evil from the world wherever they find it. I'm wielding the Ashbringer, for crying out loud. The blade obviously finds me worthy to use it, after all that certain members of a race that the greater portion of my race is allied with have done to certain members of Tyrande's race and the races they're allied with. So she shouldn't act that way.


That said, I love when you see little blips where they do acknowledge you're different from the other classes, like the ghosts in Azsuna being like "this mage has Dath'remar Sunstrider's sword" when they introduce the fire mage player to the prince guy.

So far, I haven't seen much of that with Ashbringer, but none of the people on the Broken Isles are very closely tied to the Light or would have ever heard of it, so I give it a pass.


I'm enjoying the quests astronomically more than Pandaria and Warlords of Draenor ones, but they could be better. I was genuinely surprised when I thought to myself "these quests are kind of cool. Why are they for pre-max level? Oh, woah! The quests are actually fun and meaningful to me before max-level ones!" Because I've been accustomed to just tromping through a ton of "rawr me smash loktar ogar" generic warmongering orc quests in Cata, lame pandas in Pandaria, and more generic warmongering orc quests in WoD, with the only respite in Pandaria being when we got back to the story that I actually cared about, with 5.2 with the spotlight the Blood Elves got, then Siege of Orgrimmar.

I was actually surprised that the quests were fun and tied to anything remotely recognizable or enjoyable pre-max level, with the night elves and Blues in Azsuna and the druidie stuff in Val'sharah, and now the tauren in Highmountain. Much much better than recent years, imo. But Blizz could do a little better with convincing the player that big threats are actually big and threatening.

[Kralljin]

I wouldn't hold my breath. The first raid in the xpac is rarely breathtaking since Wrath.

You misunderstand my point, comparing Xavius to Dargrul and Athissa is wrong.

Xavius should appear stronger than these two because of my mentioned points.

[Koryn123]

It got worse when Blizzard announced that the Burning Legion transcends all realities and to this day it is still canon...

Which is complete and utter lore-breaking trash when you think about how Archimonde and Kil'jaeden were eredar, as Velen is, and there was an AU Velen, so we're supposed to believe that if one version of you decides to turn into a demon, which is a very vague transition sometimes (like with demon hunters), then all versions of you across all realities must basically be erased just like that because one of them became a demon. That's all fine and dandy when the main story is in the timeline where that person made the choice to become the demon, but it would be absolutely unacceptable if it weren't.

Say, Anduin is just enjoying a cup of tea, being all "for the light, *sip*" and suddenly the roof of Stormwind Keep crashes apart because Anduin is now a gigantic demon lord thing. A stormwind guard is like "woah prince anduin what happened???" and Anduin is like "dunno, guess an AU version of me turned demon, so now I'm one too. Guess I'll have to forget everything that made me who I am and be a demon because Blizzard says the Legion transcends all realities so there's only one Archimonde and Kil'jaeden even though there are multiple Velen's."

Or worse, if we were just hanging around in Stormwind and suddenly Anduin pops out of existence because a version of him became a demon and by Blizzard's rule of one, all other versions must cease to exist.


WoD was just a crappy plot device to get a Gul'dan to start Legion.


When Metzen was in charge of the story and wanted something to happen, like Kael'thas to be bad, they just say "Kael'thas is bad now, get used to it, we won't explain it, we'll dangle an explanation in front of you for 10 years before the author of it leaves Blizzard so you can say goodbye to a meaningful story for one of the biggest names from WC3."

Now that Kosak is in charge of the story, he backs it into a corner for years and years to achieve what he wants to have happen. We were backed into an orc-centric corner for years with Cata, MoP, and WoD, because Garrosh needed to become Warchief and they needed to completely gut Thrall's character and make him out to be a complete moron for ignoring everyone who said Garrosh would be a bad choice. It was all Thrall's fault. And he throws it off onto Garrosh claiming that Garrosh was the one who failed the Horde. Garrosh was right saying Thrall failed him, because he really did.

[Qualia]

When I look back at BC, especially through the lens of Legion (and parts of WoD), it makes LESS sense, not more.

It would have actually made more sense if you read "Illidan", actually. For example, Illidan never wanted to fight the Alliance & the Horde in Outland - he & his DHs in fact saved us from being annihilated at the portal without us knowing about it. He, however, knew that we wouldn't have trusted him or accepted his rather morally-questionable methods (going by his history with the NE, that isn't without basis) - that'd explain why he never contacted us. Illidan expected us to fight against the Legion, but we attacked him instead so they fought back - mainly decisions of his Illidari council as Illidan, at that moment, already completely focused in his plan to assault Argus and no longer cared about his Outland base.

In regards to Kael'thas, we didn't know exactly when he switched to KJ, but it was implied that it could have started as early as when KJ appeared in front of them in Outland (before they marched to Northrend). KJ temporarily linked his mind and inspected Illidan & his lieutenants' (Vashj / Kael) minds there. Because of that, Illidan never explained his plans to them because he didn't know if he could trust them.

All in all, Blizzard authors aren't the best writers ever (just like almost every game story writers), but I think they did a fine job of connecting the story of TBC & Legion without making it overly weird.

[Tenjen]

Well this topic just got utterly and completely derailed.

Athissa and the naga actually succeeded in obtaining the artifact (by outsmarting us) and were in the middle of almost winning in eye of azhara when we finally pulled through. There WERE massive naga forces engaged in aszuna but a water battle is going to be different from a land battle.

Dargul was using an artifact of power intended for creation in a destruction manner. It would have lead to his demise and he would have taken high mountain with him.

Both of them had the advantage during their campaigns until we finally managed to put them down.

[darkdude103]

Which is complete and utter lore-breaking trash when you think about how Archimonde and Kil'jaeden were eredar, as Velen is, and there was an AU Velen, so we're supposed to believe that if one version of you decides to turn into a demon, which is a very vague transition sometimes (like with demon hunters), then all versions of you across all realities must basically be erased just like that because one of them became a demon. That's all fine and dandy when the main story is in the timeline where that person made the choice to become the demon, but it would be absolutely unacceptable if it weren't.

Say, Anduin is just enjoying a cup of tea, being all "for the light, *sip*" and suddenly the roof of Stormwind Keep crashes apart because Anduin is now a gigantic demon lord thing. A stormwind guard is like "woah prince anduin what happened???" and Anduin is like "dunno, guess an AU version of me turned demon, so now I'm one too. Guess I'll have to forget everything that made me who I am and be a demon because Blizzard says the Legion transcends all realities so there's only one Archimonde and Kil'jaeden even though there are multiple Velen's."

Or worse, if we were just hanging around in Stormwind and suddenly Anduin pops out of existence because a version of him became a demon and by Blizzard's rule of one, all other versions must cease to exist.


WoD was just a crappy plot device to get a Gul'dan to start Legion.


When Metzen was in charge of the story and wanted something to happen, like Kael'thas to be bad, they just say "Kael'thas is bad now, get used to it, we won't explain it, we'll dangle an explanation in front of you for 10 years before the author of it leaves Blizzard so you can say goodbye to a meaningful story for one of the biggest names from WC3."

Now that Kosak is in charge of the story, he backs it into a corner for years and years to achieve what he wants to have happen. We were backed into an orc-centric corner for years with Cata, MoP, and WoD, because Garrosh needed to become Warchief and they needed to completely gut Thrall's character and make him out to be a complete moron for ignoring everyone who said Garrosh would be a bad choice. It was all Thrall's fault. And he throws it off onto Garrosh claiming that Garrosh was the one who failed the Horde. Garrosh was right saying Thrall failed him, because he really did.

Somebody on here explained it as all the versions of archimond and kil'jaden that accepted sargaras's proposal got merged together