Survival Hunter Evaluation

[ReklessJonez]

OK so after reading the latest simulation it seems to me the only reasonable spec to play would be survival. Now no disrespect to Azortharion, but at the beginning of the last expansion there was quite a bit of miss information in the guide he wrote. So how much of the new stuff he has put up in regards to all three specializations, but more specifically survival is accurate?

I dumped all of the artifact power from leveling and the main quest lines into my marksmanship artifact, only to find out via the simulation that was posted in this forum that I had wasted all of it on the inferior of the three specs. So now I am putting everything I can into survival in hopes that I will be able to put out more damage. Any constructive thoughts are appreciated. So if there are any hunters playing survival at a high level please respond to this thread and let us all know what you are doing so that we can also try to not be set as a ranged DPS since we now offer very little utility.

[Deleted]

You're really out to lunch. I'm killing it in dungeons as Marksmanship (18 in traits now, ilvl 845) and it'll only get better when raids roll around. Those sims you read are absolute horseshit. GL with survival though.

[Coldfire989]

You mean the stuff from Noxxic? That alone should tell you to never ever read or even look at them. But hey like has been said have fun with SV and being in the already overcrowded melee circle

[Woxbox]

I'm by no means a high end play, but I ran 4 mythic today as Survival (11 points in the weapon 811, overall gear 825-830) and did fine. Good AoE for trash, and decent DPS on bosses. I was either top, or just below for DPS.

[timoseewho]

You're really out to lunch. I'm killing it in dungeons as Marksmanship (18 in traits now, ilvl 845) and it'll only get better when raids roll around. Those sims you read are absolute horseshit. GL with survival though.

out of curiosity, are you running Sidewinders or PS?

[Zantos]

I plan to change between BM and Survival. Atm though, I am sticking around 115k dps in dungeons at 109. Can't wait to see what I am at at 110. I even out dpsed a 110 MM hunter the other day. I can't really complain dps wise about survival. Good aoe, especially in a pinch if you know its coming and save for it. Good single target.

BM should be fun too. Always enjoyed BM. Though Later in the expansion, I doubt doing any of the three would be out of the question.

[Roarkin]

Im lvl 110, with 1 trait away from second gold in SV, ilvl 835, and I pull an average of 170k-200k single target dps depending on fight and only AOE out dpsd by (shocker) monks and DHs

I love sv, the damage is there, the utility is there, and its fun, forget the haters, if you like it play it if your not a top tier mythic progression guild it does not matter.

Im maining BM for mythics mainly and raiding mythic as SV, because I want to and its what i find fun

[Sim]

SV even in the sims were scoring higher than MM/BM (not Noxxic, but in the theorycrafting thread). So its got the potential to do good damage. The MM dick riding was a little much pre-legion release though.

[ReklessJonez]

SV even in the sims were scoring higher than MM/BM (not Noxxic, but in the theorycrafting thread). So its got the potential to do good damage. The MM dick riding was a little much pre-legion release though.

See that's what I kind of thought as well. I been playing SV and I don't know what ppl dont like about it. And the whole "play it if you aren't in high end Mythic progression guild"is kinda Ridic. The damage is more than Competitive we have decent mobility and our cleave damage is pretty sexy. the more I play it the better it gets. granted its not as easy to play .... And I think thats where it loses alot of ppl cause its not 3 buttons and you have to track and manage your buffs a bit better.

[Typhod]

I'm 841 ilvl and playing strictly SV with 17 points put into Talonclaw, I've only put 13 points in BM for fights where a ranged is needed (havent found one yet in all 8 mythic dungeons yet). I've put one of my points into Terms of Engagement in Talonclaw to get me a better questing experience aswell as a huge increase to mobility in fights with adds, while it doesnt provide any strict DPS increase its a very nice trait to have (especially with On the Trail golden dragon).

The rotation, artifact path and talents that are described in Icy-veins are correct. However the lvl 60 tier is alot more competitive in damage than what it gives credit for. Caltrops are clearly best for AoE, Steel Trap are the best (only slightly) for ST and Improved Traps are good allround option. Also the talent Butchery is a monster in AoE fights, so I wouldn't say that SV necessarily have bad AoE as the introduction to the guide says, but its not as good as the other specs. SV does have nice burst AoE though with Carve hitting for lots when there are many targets thanks to the "Hellcarver" trait, aswell as Fury of the Eagle just tearing all smaller mobs apart when used right.

One thing that I'm unsure about and that I havent been able to find info on anywhere is the usage of Fury of the Eagle. Sure you'll use with with 6 stacks of MF, but you don't always get 6 stacks of MF when the CD of FotE is finished, thus making you either waste damage by not using FotE on CD. That boilds down to the question.

*At how many stacks is it a DPS increase to use FotE on ST with your major abilities on CD? (ET, DfG, TA, Lacerate, AotE, SH)

*At how many stacks is it a DPS increase to use FotE on multiple targets?

I havent tested this, only guessed. Right now I'm using FotE on CD in AoE when I get 3-4 stacks depending on the situation and Hunting Companion procs, but if I know I can make it to 6 stacks then I wait for that to happen unless AoE is needed asap. I'm also using FotE on ST with 4+ stacks, unless I know I can reach 6 stacks.

[Deleted]

I plan to change between BM and Survival. Atm though, I am sticking around 115k dps in dungeons at 109. Can't wait to see what I am at at 110. I even out dpsed a 110 MM hunter the other day. I can't really complain dps wise about survival. Good aoe, especially in a pinch if you know its coming and save for it. Good single target.

BM should be fun too. Always enjoyed BM. Though Later in the expansion, I doubt doing any of the three would be out of the question.

I am still 105 so i did not even install recount in this exp yet, but i am curious.....how does the scaling work in dps meter? Yesterday i was with 110 friends in instance normal and i outdpsed pretty much everybody as MM.....but i guess it is not too affordable since i was 4 lvls below and i was curious to know how my dps was calculated and compared to 110s......if anybody knows

[Zantos]

I am still 105 so i did not even install recount in this exp yet, but i am curious.....how does the scaling work in dps meter? Yesterday i was with 110 friends in instance normal and i outdpsed pretty much everybody as MM.....but i guess it is not too affordable since i was 4 lvls below and i was curious to know how my dps was calculated and compared to 110s......if anybody knows

I haven't seen any drops honestly. I sat at around 120k prior to 110 and at 110 I stayed around it, if not a bit more. I really don't know why I see so many people just sudden;y suck at 110. I just gotta figure out my stat priorities now for Survival.

I'm not sure how Up to date that Azorth guide is, since it has "weak aoe capabilities" as a con, yet our Aoe capabilities are Insane if you know wtf you're doing.

[Deleted]

The AoE is not insane at all...SV isn't void of it, but it's pretty weak. Long build up, long cooldowns.


I have ~ilvl870 on all 3 artifacts (all have at least 13 traits), and Mm scales the best so far, even though I don't even have legacy unlocked.
SV gets the very important traits by lvl 12 or 13.. so it's not like it's difficult to compare

[Madh4tter]

Sims are not how raids will play out tho...
Indeed SV is dealing more dmg on singletarget fights but MM cleaves so much better without losing any singletarget dmg, it's also fairly mobile since you only need to move between Aimed Shots

Take sims always with a grain of salt.

[Hippyfighter]

I'm 841 ilvl and playing strictly SV with 17 points put into Talonclaw, I've only put 13 points in BM for fights where a ranged is needed (havent found one yet in all 8 mythic dungeons yet). I've put one of my points into Terms of Engagement in Talonclaw to get me a better questing experience aswell as a huge increase to mobility in fights with adds, while it doesnt provide any strict DPS increase its a very nice trait to have (especially with On the Trail golden dragon).

The rotation, artifact path and talents that are described in Icy-veins are correct. However the lvl 60 tier is alot more competitive in damage than what it gives credit for. Caltrops are clearly best for AoE, Steel Trap are the best (only slightly) for ST and Improved Traps are good allround option. Also the talent Butchery is a monster in AoE fights, so I wouldn't say that SV necessarily have bad AoE as the introduction to the guide says, but its not as good as the other specs. SV does have nice burst AoE though with Carve hitting for lots when there are many targets thanks to the "Hellcarver" trait, aswell as Fury of the Eagle just tearing all smaller mobs apart when used right.

One thing that I'm unsure about and that I havent been able to find info on anywhere is the usage of Fury of the Eagle. Sure you'll use with with 6 stacks of MF, but you don't always get 6 stacks of MF when the CD of FotE is finished, thus making you either waste damage by not using FotE on CD. That boilds down to the question.

*At how many stacks is it a DPS increase to use FotE on ST with your major abilities on CD? (ET, DfG, TA, Lacerate, AotE, SH)

*At how many stacks is it a DPS increase to use FotE on multiple targets?

I havent tested this, only guessed. Right now I'm using FotE on CD in AoE when I get 3-4 stacks depending on the situation and Hunting Companion procs, but if I know I can make it to 6 stacks then I wait for that to happen unless AoE is needed asap. I'm also using FotE on ST with 4+ stacks, unless I know I can reach 6 stacks.

I completely agree with you about Caltrops, from at least my initial testing it is slightly higher dps than Improved Traps on ST, but with packs makes Survival have AMAZING dps giving Survival its niche. Not only strong single and AOE burst but great sustained thanks to that one talent.

As for FOTE, i'm not sure myself, I always seem to finish my second mongoose bite rotation a couple seconds before FOTE comes off cooldown. So I am wondering if its worth holding off for a second or two so that every mongoose bite rotation includes a FOTE. But glad to find someone else enjoying survival!

[Deleted]

you can make up arguments all you want, SV is inferior to both BM and MM in basically every possible situation and any raidleader worth a damn is going to pick a DK or any other melee class over SV.

[Garkanh]

well, as MM i did 220k ST dps and 400k+ aoe (depending on the amounts of mobs, but averaging arround there on trash packs), with ilvl 820 on my MM.

now with ilvl 843 i do roughly 270k ST dps. and this is with sidewinders and black arrow as talents. i now BA is inferior, but can't be bothered switching talents everytime i go from a dungeon to do world quests, when i'm doing more than enough dps as is.

have tried survival out, it's decent fun, but i just felt it a little too clunky for my taste, and with my high latency atm, i can't really compete as it.

[Pounced]

Survival is so weak in dungeons compared to BM and even Marksman. They just have better kits for AOE than survival does.

[Mcbenchpress]

Survival is fun in BG's. You are basically impossible to kite and a 6 stack FotE just straight up kills clothies.

[Raakel]

I'm just 107 with my SV hunter but so far it's my toon I like most cause it feels completely new and different and I'm a bit burned out on my main (rogue). The solo experience is totally smooth with nice damage and gimmicks. I also enjoy the hit and run in PVP a lot - Again totally new and different playstyle which feels refreshing. Only did two dungeons so far but compared to solo where it feels smooth it get's a bit clunky in AOE situations with some downtime. But this doesn't bother me much 'cause it might get better later on or I can just swap to a second spec for dungeons...

Overall I think SV is one of the most underrated specs and I kind of like it that way.