Havoc in Legion: 7.2.5 Guide

[Vanyali]

I'm using the fel rush, momentum build, with chaos blades at the end yes.

But i don't see how haste benefits it.. I almost never need Fury, and that's the only upsite i can see from it. It must be better to get more damage behind your chaos strikes when they hit, together with everything else, than more autoattacks?

Anyways .. That sucks!

Icy veins suggests Crit -> Versa -> Mastery -> Haste when going chaos blades, i though that Icy veins actually was trustworthy now-o-days

Wordup and I get our information from the same place, it's quite trustworthy. That said, I'm going to take a day here soon to catchup on anything that might have been lost in launch madness; stat weights may have updated slightly. That's why I provide the link

So i got Faulty Countermeasure 825 which i am using. But i also have Mark of Dargul 840 and Memento of Agarbonda 825. Should i use MaD as second trinket?

The BiS list assumes same ilvl - higher ilvl trinkets with more stats are probably going to do better.

Is the Darkmoon trinket / Alch trinket worth getting as Veng DH?

Venge thread, I don't have those kind of answers.

[Kimpan]

Wordup and I get our information from the same place, it's quite trustworthy. That said, I'm going to take a day here soon to catchup on anything that might have been lost in launch madness; stat weights may have updated slightly. That's why I provide the link



The BiS list assumes same ilvl - higher ilvl trinkets with more stats are probably going to do better.



Venge thread, I don't have those kind of answers.

Oh yeah, sorry: I mean for Havoc ofc (Copy pasted my question for veng and forgot to change to havoc)

[Deleted]

guyz, i think taking talent Prepared is good only on paper and simcraft.

In reality you will almost always jump out of range, except for big bosses.

I guess simcraft did not calculated that boss uptime we lost by spamming VR every 15s.

Demon Blades are just easier and better.

[Vanyali]

Oh yeah, sorry: I mean for Havoc ofc (Copy pasted my question for veng and forgot to change to havoc)

DMC is BiS for Havoc Alchy trinket was about fourth last I looked.

[Nmkyungri]

i got the alch trinket is it worth upgrading it to max as a havoc dh?

[Deleted]

guyz, i think taking talent Prepared is good only on paper and simcraft.

In reality you will almost always jump out of range, except for big bosses.

I guess simcraft did not calculated that boss uptime we lost by spamming VR every 15s.

Demon Blades are just easier and better.

Be on max range, DPS from bosses side and you rush/VR from side to side. That will minimize running.

Also use Fel barrage and glaive throw after VR

[Mamut]

Are 106 taelnts still Momentum > Nemesis > Fel Eruption? Today I spend alot of time testing talents on dummy in Order Hall. Momentum was clear winner but its really easy here due wall right behind dummy. Hovever I pulled around 7-10k more dps with fel eruption than with nemesis. Im lvl 107 only tho so have to test again at max lvl but I was really surprised I did more dps with FE.

[Deix-EU]

Be on max range, DPS from bosses side and you rush/VR from side to side. That will minimize running.

Also use Fel barrage and glaive throw after VR

Yes it's obivously the way to do it but just by "running" a bit need to be accounted for when min/maxing effectively. And he's got a point cause I'm asking the same. Will do some real test later on. With the same gameplay, if I do more DPS, it's obviously that the bit of running we do (because of: tank moving, you moving to avoid shits (and there are a tone), timings) "may be" not the optimal momentum build.

We had the same dilemna at the begining of Monk tank era in MoP with "on paper build better" (which are not to alarm you, often to take with a grain of salt). Because, well, yes it was surely better math wise to get crit crit crit etc. But in the end, it occured that staggering mechanic + stamina was more FLEXIBLE with HEALERS mechanics. We could easily extrapolate the same with more FLEXIBLE with MOVE FACTORS mechanics. Same goes wiith "going front of the boss" => rarely acceptable while progressing.

[Syncness]

guyz, i think taking talent Prepared is good only on paper and simcraft.

In reality you will almost always jump out of range, except for big bosses.

I guess simcraft did not calculated that boss uptime we lost by spamming VR every 15s.

Demon Blades are just easier and better.

If you save either glance or barrage for VR or FR that mitigates the downtime significantly. You're then only essentially missing one white never swing. Definitely worth the 20%.

[phuzy]

Hey guys,
Im not sure about 17th trait to take. Following the diagram is not a set in stone thing. Id like to look at other options.
You think Its fine to take feast on the souls before chaos vision? Can I have 21 points by raid time.
I feel like feast on the souls will be more useful now in dungeons.

[iddqd]

oh, if you have fury spend it immediately in annihilation, pretty obvious with formulas (900+% weapon damage > 200% out of 150%). TG during VR or boss moves etc.

Let's be honest, in the current form, there is no huge "hitbox" bosses yet. VR make you always out of it a bit and you have to run a bit.

I cannot check ingame (work), but i think the correct value for TG is 490%. Despite it being physical and therefore not benefitting from our mastery and being reduced by armor (does the bleed effect?), i see it doing higher damage than annihilation and therefore should never reach 2 charges.

[Deleted]

Wordup and I get our information from the same place, it's quite trustworthy. That said, I'm going to take a day here soon to catchup on anything that might have been lost in launch madness; stat weights may have updated slightly. That's why I provide the link

Looking at some of the Simc stat weight, havoc has some of the lowest scaling stats (comparing it to arms). Is the reason we are so strong atm is that we have bad scaling and are just stronger without stats compared to other classes?

[Deix-EU]

Looking at some of the Simc stat weight, havoc has some of the lowest scaling stats (comparing it to arms). Is the reason we are so strong atm is that we have bad scaling and are just stronger without stats compared to other classes?

I'm observing the contrary. The more gear, the more I wreck recount comparing others. I have the idea that blizz got numbers we don't and they tested it so that we're on part with others in raids. Time will tell but at the moment, I'm jealoused by mates, really, destroying the charts each time. Sure, some bosses are not for us but AS A WHOLE in a dungeon, I'm ahead in damage done for a HUGE amount.

[Deleted]

I'm observing the contrary. The more gear, the more I wreck recount comparing others. I have the idea that blizz got numbers we don't and they tested it so that we're on part with others in raids. Time will tell but at the moment, I'm jealoused by mates, really, destroying the charts each time. Sure, some bosses are not for us but AS A WHOLE in a dungeon, I'm ahead in damage done for a HUGE amount.

I forgot to mention im talking about ST and 840ilvl , On 3 target cleave and burst aoe we seem a real powerhouse. Just ST scaling seems a bit low and that worries me that we will only be good for aoe burst and cleave in 890+ ilvl and further tiers.

Edit:

For reference arms = haste 10,86 > str 9,55 > mas 9,48 > vers 7.80 > crit 7.09
and havoc = agi 8.76 > crit 7.0 > vers 6.74 > haste 6.43 > mas 5.8

3 stats for arms scale higher then our primary stat 0.o

And then there is mythic gear profile.



Cant compare it to havoc mythic cause there is no profile but that mastery scaling :O

[Ardeth]

Checked a path for Twinblades of the Deceiver pre expansion that said to get Anguish first and went with that, but now I see the best trait to get first has been changed to Rage of the Illidari. How good is Rage compared Anguish? And is it enough to warrent a respec?

[Soulfròst]

Checked a path for Twinblades of the Deceiver pre expansion that said to get Anguish first and went with that, but now I see the best trait to get first has been changed to Rage of the Illidari. How good is Rage compared Anguish? And is it enough to warrent a respec?

I was wondering this too after I'd already specced into Anguish. I concluded that it was better (I was at rank 14 at this time) to just begin working over to RotI with the AP that I had, vs wasting a whole rank's worth of AP to respec and slow me down. I have two Fel relics that both increase Chaos Strike critical strike damage, making that trait up to rank 5 now, 30% increase. I figured that alone made staying in that path worthwhile, plus less time to obtain both golden traits.

[Flumpus]

I kinda feel like Bloodlet should be baseline at this point, and the talent slot should be replaced with something that removes the bleed, but causes Throw Glaive to do more up-front damage, making it a situational choice for cleave situations where things will not be alive long enough for the full duration of Bloodlet. Right now, Bloodlet is just too much damage to not take in any situation. Fel Blade is only situationally okay to take, and First Blood is just... ehh. Not good unless you're already using Blade Dance a lot (i.e. Skorpyron)

[Icecreamcake]

I kinda feel like Bloodlet should be baseline at this point, and the talent slot should be replaced with something that removes the bleed, but causes Throw Glaive to do more up-front damage, making it a situational choice for cleave situations where things will not be alive long enough for the full duration of Bloodlet. Right now, Bloodlet is just too much damage to not take in any situation. Fel Blade is only situationally okay to take, and First Blood is just... ehh. Not good unless you're already using Blade Dance a lot (i.e. Skorpyron)

It won't be because it's the noob option for the momentum spec, while Prepared is the min/max mythic raider option

[Flumpus]

It won't be because it's the noob option for the momentum spec, while Prepared is the min/max mythic raider option

Um... go back and check which talents are where, mate.

[Demoniacal]

How good is the 835 Six-Feather Fan compared to some of the top 840/850 trinkets in that sim?