Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[Aldare]

So are any of the hunter specs competitive with Outlaw rogue?

And how fun is the gameplay for either MM or BM?

I don't think there's much that's competitive with Outlaw Rogue at the moment, but I would expect an Outlaw nerf soon, possibly before raid release. As for how "fun" things are, that's really subjective. For me personally I think MM is more fun than BM, but there are still things about both specs I like and dislike.

[Deleted]

SV trinkets updated:

http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

Again, I'll work on a color-coded version tomorrow hopefully using the same sim results. I'm thinking red for things not available until Nighthold. Orange for Emerald Nightmare and Mythic+ and Green for things available right now.

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I can tweak around the gearset. I could revert them to a mythic dungeon set, but these lists are really just meant as a kind of shopping cart for where we're headed. As always, people should definitely sim with their own gear. This is really just supposed to show relative power rankings for wishlists (not dps increases for your current gear).

Whats the point of doing sims for the community if you use gear that is not even available as your baseline? That's extremely misleading, making your list useless to determine upgrades heading into Emerald Nightmare. Unless you are making a list for 7.1 karazhan? You really should do them in pre-raid/mythic dungeon gear with stats that are realistically obtainable when the raid opens. something like 840-850 ilvl.

[Fakiegeff]

Btw, your trinket sims on Icyveins list the tracking charm really high, does it include the 10% dmg bonus against demons?

the dmg proc on that thing is really strong, i tested it against the procs of various trinkets ive found and its like 2-4x better than everything so far

[Deleted]

the dmg proc on that thing is really strong, i tested it against the procs of various trinkets ive found and its like 2-4x better than everything so far

Weird... it rarely goes above ~3% for me and I'm like "My rabbit foot adds ~6% mastery damage and has more agi, so it should be better".

[Effinhunter]

Whats the point of doing sims for the community if you use gear that is not even available as your baseline? That's extremely misleading, making your list useless to determine upgrades heading into Emerald Nightmare. Unless you are making a list for 7.1 karazhan? You really should do them in pre-raid/mythic dungeon gear with stats that are realistically obtainable when the raid opens. something like 840-850 ilvl.

I'm using a higher gear profile because I want to see how trinkets are scaling as we get gear. I couldn't care less about the gear you have right now from heroics and mythic dungeons. I'm interested in seeing how things are going to scale in Mythic+, which most of us are going to be spamming as soon as EN hits, and I'm interested in understanding what trinkets I am going to be targeting, if any, in EN, above and beyond what I'm able to snag in Mythics and Mythic+. I put the weapon ilvl at 900, because most of us are already at ~870 artifacts with our third relic, and Mythic+ and EN are going to put you over 900. I'm interested in seeing if there are certain trinkets that benefit from this (e.g., some SV ones). The other gear will amplify how powerful some of these trinket procs get, and I am interested in seeing that because it tells me what trinkets I should be holding onto, and what I should be simming myself with my gear.

A trinket listing is not an end product that tells you everything. It's a listing of what you should be simming for yourself in your own gear with either Simcraft or AMR, imo.

There are two main things you should be looking for in this list. These things are:

1) How each trinket scales with item level increases. Some trinkets can start even with others but as you get TFs, they rise quickly above others. This is the kind of thing I am personally be looking for--scalability in the Mythic+ rewards.
2) What trinkets in the current or next raid instances are going to be more powerful than what you are currently wearing, so you can plan accordingly, and also so you can give your loot councils/loot masters better information on how much better the trinket might be.

Now, I'm going to change the gear back to 840/870 or maybe lower EN, so I can stop hearing some of this nonsense, which I can only assume is coming from "Hunter" Discord. It's nowhere near as important as some of you have been lead to believe, and I have absolutely zero belief that this will stop these kinds of attacks on what is going on in this thread, but whatever. I can run these on another computer while I play the game on my gaming pc. You're not really wasting as much of my time as some of you seem to be thinking you are.

The color coding that I have been talking about should show you what is currently obtainable (green), what is going to be obtainable very soon (yellow) and what is off in the future (orange/red), as best as I can sim them right now. That should help with finding information for those interested in using this kind of list. I'm also going to be running trinket sims for 3-6 targets, because some of these are better for Mythic+ than others.

If you don't find these lists useful because of *insert whatever reason Azor is telling you this time*, then don't look at the list. Very simple. However, what is happening to me throughout the day is that I am getting whispers from random hunters asking me if one trinket is better than two to three others they link to me, and I'm trying to enjoy the game. So, I'd like to get out some general advice to help them figure out which of these are worth simming.

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Why are you, right now, going through all that trouble though? You should focus on mythic/early nightmare gear. Everything else is useless and it's very likely that you'll have to do all the sims again, no one knows what will happen to the hunter class in 3 months. I thought that Sim is supposed to help people who can't do it themselves (because they don't know how). I don't see the point in doing this - as it doesn't really help anybody right now, does it?

What I do with my time is my business. I can do all of these at the same time. As I have said, the color-coding should help people separate what is in near-term future, far-term future, and what is right now. Sims are easy to run again, and they have to be constantly re-run, not just because of something that Blizzard does, but because Simcraft or AMR or anything else can have bugs that are fixed. This is my aggravation to deal with, not yours.

If you don't see the point in a list, then don't use it. I don't know why I have to explain what you should be looking for in a trinket list, but I've done that.

[Azortharion]

It's pretty fucking funny that you think you're the victim of some hunter Discord conspiracy. Maybe people are bitching to you about the sims because they are actually a misleading joke, based on gear that we will obviously not have for ages. I haven't told anyone to come bitch at you, I was just the first to bring it up and some people obviously noted the same things as I did.

Jesus christ.

[Deleted]

@ Effin

Get your feelings straight again, we didn't try to be mean, we were asking why you'd "spam" (yes, it's completely overwhelming, thats just how it is) Sims that are completely useless to us right now. If we have to sim everything ourselves anyway, what's the point in posting the Sims. I don't get it.

How is it nonsense?

If you don't find these lists useful because of *insert whatever reason Azor is telling you this time*, then don't look at the list. Very simple. However, what is happening to me throughout the day is that I am getting whispers from random hunters asking me if one trinket is better than two to three others they link to me, and I'm trying to enjoy the game. So, I'd like to get out some general advice to help them figure out which of these are worth simming.

And you give them, quite possibly, wrong information, so they shut up? Wth. A list about which trinkets to look for @ around 840, and which to look for @ around 860 and then @ around 880 etc would be more valuable than this huge list which nobody, who relies on theorycrafters to find out "what's best", would understand.
I mean, you even post sims and say, in the very same post, that these Sims have issues because X or Y is not right. That's so misleading for anyone who doesn't know his way around Simcraft and the guys that do know their stuff, probably know about all that anyway, don't they?

[Effinhunter]

It's pretty fucking funny that you think you're the victim of some hunter Discord conspiracy. Maybe people are bitching to you about the sims because they are actually a misleading joke, based on gear that we will obviously not have for ages. I haven't told anyone to come bitch at you, I was just the first to bring it up and some people obviously noted the same things as I did.

Jesus christ.

There are people linking me your chats and talking to me about your chats in Discord, frequently. I don't care to know what's going on in Discord, but I hear about it constantly. What you and your cohorts did to the AMR folks in Hunter Discord. Your responses to this thread. People latching on to whatever you say. Acting on your behalf.

It's pretty fucking funny that you think speaking to 2k+ hunters in Discord stays in the Discord.

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And you give them, quite possibly, wrong information, so they shut up? Wth. A list about which trinkets to look for @ around 840, and which to look for @ around 860 and then @ around 880 etc would be more valuable than this huge list which nobody, who relies on theorycrafters to find out "what's best", would understand.
I mean, you even post sims and say, in the very same post, that these Sims have issues because X or Y is not right. That's so misleading for anyone who doesn't know his way around Simcraft and the guys that do know their stuff, probably know about all that anyway, don't they?

As I said, I'm going to be color-coding things to help people find what they are looking for, e.g., your example of whether it's available in game right now or with EN release. I've said this multiple times.

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P.S. I've started the 840/870 gear baseline sims for the trinkets. I'll upload them when they're done.

[Azortharion]

Yeah, you're a joke in the Hunter Discord, no one's hiding that, but no one has been told to bitch about your trinket sims being bad, that's on their own initiative.

[Effinhunter]

You are an absolute cancer on our community. People are so scared to speak publicly in that Discord or here that we have lost a lot of what made us a great community for many years. If this is a joke to you, then that's really sad. Most people are just so scared to get on your hate list, that they stop communicating and stop contributing. What we're left with, as a community, is mostly just trolls.

[Azortharion]

Rather have a few assholes putting out good information than an "everyone is good enough" community where the smallest seed of misinformation can spread throughout the community like wildfire and where feelycrafting bullshit is in the driver's seat driving the decision making of the majority.

[Deleted]

SV hunter is #1 guys. Please pick it!

Also, I don't think Azortharion is cancer. He is more like aids, as it spreads better! <3

[Finbezz]

Rather have a few assholes putting out good information than an "everyone is good enough" community where the smallest seed of misinformation can spread throughout the community like wildfire and where feelycrafting bullshit is in the driver's seat driving the decision making of the majority.

Go send your gremlins after someone else. You're a waste of time. Sad as hell you're allegedly the same age as me.

Great input Finbez, I learned a lot from your post.

Most of your posts are nothing but insults. Tit for tat.

[Azortharion]

Great input Finbez, I learned a lot from your post.

[Deleted]

the sooner this azortharion is banned, the better.

talking shit to people all the time, your always arrogant and rude, go and bother someone else you nerd raging idiot

[eschatological]

Let's stop this now. Sniping other posters is not allowed on these forums. For a long time, there has been a line between criticism of theorycrafting and criticism of the theorycrafter that y'all have been walking, but I think it's about time to simply go your separate ways. There's a reason there's two separate threads on this subforum dealing with theorycrafting, and most of it has to do with the lack of civility displayed between the different modes of thinking. This isn't Discord, and behavior acceptable there isn't here.

[Effinhunter]

MM trinket sims are updated with the 840/870 gear levels.

http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

No change in relative rankings, but that's what I was trying to explain over the "Why are you misleading people?" complaints.

I'll post the BM and SV trinket sims as soon as they're finished, and as I promised, I will color coordinate these so it's easier to find what you're looking for.

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SV trinket sims are updated with the 840/870 gear levels

http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

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BM trinket sims are updated with the 840/870 gear levels

http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

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Added all stages of the new Darkmoon trinkets, and I also added some other trinkets that were missing. I'm going to be running 3 and 6 target sims after I get through reruns of the single target ones for each spec with the new trinkets.

MM is finished first (single target)

http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

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SV is updated with the new trinkets.

http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

I am batching three and six target sims that may prove interesting for some of the multi-target trinkets. I'll upload those and update post tomorrow afternoon when they're finished (assuming nothing goes wrong during the sim).

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BM trinkets single target updated and MM and SV trinkets in three targets uploaded

BM trinkets 1 target: http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html
MM trinkets 3 target: http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html
SV trinkets 3 target: http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

So, I have some bad news for anyone thinking Figurehead was almost like having our very own soul capacitor. The cap on this gimps the trinket severely. Basically, if you absolutely cap the damage funnel on this trinket in the 825 version, you can only add a maximum of 4796 dps, even if you have a great AoE pack because this is the theoretically max (575549 damage / 120s = 4796 dps). The absolute highest version we appear to have on any horizon is the 900ilvl version, and the proc on that can only hit 9646 dps (1157578 damage / 120s = 9646 dps).

The AoE trinkets without such a cap, such as the Twisting Wind from EN, have much better potential in Mythic+.

I'll upload the other 3 and 6 target trinket sims when they are done.

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BM trinkets 3 target: http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

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MM trinkets 6 target: http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

[GT4]

Let's stop this now. Sniping other posters is not allowed on these forums. For a long time, there has been a line between criticism of theorycrafting and criticism of the theorycrafter that y'all have been walking, but I think it's about time to simply go your separate ways. There's a reason there's two separate threads on this subforum dealing with theorycrafting, and most of it has to do with the lack of civility displayed between the different modes of thinking. This isn't Discord, and behavior acceptable there isn't here.

Maybe you should tell that directly to a certain somebody who tends to make every single thread about himself (it's actually quite hilarious how often they post screenshots of their logs instead of actually taking part in the discussion) and then lash out at everybody around when they're criticized for doing so?

You know there's something wrong when you look at a random thread in this forum and it more likely than not contains posts by that certain somebody derailing the topic and/or insulting others just to inflate their ego.

I don't even need to mention the name here because I'm sure everybody semi-frequent to this forum knows who I'm talking about anyway.

[Azortharion]

Log linking, wut.

[aznxk3vi17]

Log linking, wut.

It's in your signature, man.