Is it ever acceptable to play a weak spec you enjoy in PvE?

[Deleted]

I have raided Mythic Hellfire Citadel shortly after release of that patch. Now I'm not raiding mythic. I literally have no nerves for noobs and elitist pricks. It is so tiring to see elitist pricks screaming on people and it has no effect. Don't get me wrong, I always played warlock and I always had high dps and godly avoidable damage. I cant tag along with average raiding guilds because they often think high of themselves and what they provide is poor.

So, me, who likes the game a lot and it's story, I find it rather enjoyable to play LFR because there I have expectations that come true unlike in other situations.

I understand you being tired of the mythic scene and its problems, but i do not understand how can someone who has been raiding mythic find LFR "enjoyable".
Well more power to you i guess.

[Mellrod]

Then gtfo of Multiplayer games.

That's a shitty rhetoric, and I hope that's not your idea of fun. There are many different ways to play the game, and he doesn't have to quit because he doesn't want other people telling him how to have fun. Not here, not in any game. No one wants to be bossed around in real life, so why let yourself be when in a game? This isn't vanilla anymore, priests can be shadow spec and mages can do something other than CC. There is probably a meta based around artifact progression in relation to certain specs for this expansion, but I still that if you find your spec fun, then find a guild that'll accept you, rather than trying to hard to meet one's requirements.

[Deleted]

The only time I've played a spec I don't enjoy is when I was in a high(ish) end raiding guild and we were pushing bleeding edge content. I usually play a Holy Priest but for most fights Disc had the better raid cooldowns, so that's what my raid leader asked me to play. For 5 mans or content we had comfortably on farm I'd switch back to Holy. Specs are a tool that are there to be used. You can always have a preference but sometimes you just have to use the right tool for the job.

Nowadays I only do Heroic raids so I play whatever spec I enjoy most.

[Witchsong]

That said, there is the option to simply play this spec into PvE but to me, the game is only real at Mythic and I've heard in tryouts they'll reject you on sight based on what spec you are running. But are there ever exceptions? What I have on mind is Frost DK btw, and what I am regretting is likely not going Unholy since I tried tanking on the class and decided it's not for me.

Depends on the guild. I got recruited as a holy priest in WoD, even though holy priest was by far the weakest healing spec in the game at that point. If your goal is to do mythic, but not aim for world first, you should be able to find a guild that accepts you for the spec that you enjoy.

[Deleted]

You can always have a preference but sometimes you just have to use the right tool for the job.

Yes and no; this is a game after all, if you choose let´s say a mage because you like frost spec and that spec only, having to play with another spec of that mage might be not fun for you, so even if it is a DPS monster what is the point of playing something you are not enjoying at all?
Maybe blizzard should clarify what specs are gonna be viable for competitive raiding and which ones not, from the start of an expansion, so everyone knows before it is too late which options they have when choosing a class/spec

[Dahij]

Im the leader of a 3 raids/week guild with heroic clear as the standard and will move onto mythic in the future. I always min/max no matter what and I do encourage everyone else to do so as well, however, I always tell them to play the spec they enjoy, in my eyes a raider that actually enjoys playing will show up for raids and most likely perform better than they orherwise would.

[Baine]

Mainly for PvE concerns, yeah. Let's just say, I'm someone who's only ever PvP'd and rushed into leveling Artfact power for a spec only really stated to acceptable for that this expac. When I finally discovered PvE is the real game and want to get into it, I'm pretty choked with regret now that I'm stuck with that spec.

That said, there is the option to simply play this spec into PvE but to me, the game is only real at Mythic and I've heard in tryouts they'll reject you on sight based on what spec you are running. But are there ever exceptions? What I have on mind is Frost DK btw, and what I am regretting is likely not going Unholy since I tried tanking on the class and decided it's not for me.

I can understand the decision to reject weaker specs at the competitive level, but personnally I never change spec. I stick to it because I like its gameplay, not for competitive reasons.

[Eurhetemec]

The trouble is that "weak" is such a subjective term. As Blizzard themselves as said, some people scream that a spec is weak or even unplayable when it's doing 3-5% less DPS than others. Whereas for some people, even 25% isn't "weak".

On top of that there's the issue of how well one can play a spec - someone who is a master of a particular spec may well be able to put out more DPS with that than they can with a very different playstyle of spec that has technically superior damage (Esp. with melee vs range).

In the end it's going to come down to how weak, and what are you doing. If we're talking "10% on-paper lower damage", and you're doing bleeding-edge raiding, that's probably not okay, unless you're a god. If you're not doing bleeding edge raiding though... that's probably fine. Whereas, say, 25% less is probably not okay for anything but solo pissing around, at least in my book.

[Deleted]

Yes and no; this is a game after all, if you choose let´s say a mage because you like frost spec and that spec only, having to play with another spec of that mage might be not fun for you, so even if it is a DPS monster what is the point of playing something you are not enjoying at all?
Maybe blizzard should clarify what specs are gonna be viable for competitive raiding and which ones not, from the start of an expansion, so everyone knows before it is too late which options they have when choosing a class/spec

I think it depends on how you define 'fun'. If you're idea of fun is only playing one class/spec then at certain times in the course of WoW you'll have a pretty miserable time. Almost every spec has been 'useless' at some point. If your idea of fun is pushing the hardest content then it's not as important what spec you play. You might not enjot it as much whilst playing, but the rush from downing the hardest content the game can offer isn't diminished any just because you did it in your least fav spec. As you say, it's a game and people get enjoyment from different things.

[Charge me Doctor]

If 10-20% output from one person is making you wipe, you are either pushing the absolute limit or something else has gone terribly wrong.

Lets say its in average content and you arent pushing the limits. That 10-20% most likely isnt the difference between a wipe and a kill. However, I dont look at from that point of view. Whenever I play I think of what else I can do to make the raid easier. What utility can I bring, what talents etc.

Personally, when Enhance is performing poorly, I think I can do more for my raid team as X Y Z, I think, I could be doing more to help them. Sure that 20% isnt going to be the make or break. However, I like to know that i am doing my best.

If someone in my guild (and we arent cutting edge, but we do Mythic) is happy to just play whatever and is happy to play something that they know is under performing and doesnt really care because they want to play how they want to play. Personally, I dont want to raid with them.



Thats the beauty of logs. We know exactly who is fudging their numbers. We know exactly who isnt swapping to adds. We would never ever kick that person. Do you join two bit guilds who use recount for this shit?



We have several mages in our raid team so I will use a real example.

One was drastically underperforming in a spec that was not the accepted raid spec. They were consistency 10-20% under the other mages.

What happens is, in a Mythic guild, even an average one, is the other two mages start talking. The ranged start talking. The entire team starts to realise hey, im putting in all this effort and this guy is playing Frost or whatever the underperforming spec is. Youre faced with a whole team who either starts to resent one player or a team that says well fuck it. If hes gonna play whatever, Ill play whatever.

Its not a case of simply "lets kick him" and if a guild takes that stance, its poor leadership.

We talk to him, understand why hes playing X spec. Tell them they need to be doing X. Work with them. If in a few weeks the issues havent been resolved, we need to start looking at what else to do. Seeing if its a UI/addon thing etc

I think in my example, we had one of the officers sit down for a few hours and actually go through everything and helped them in Fire. But yes, sometimes, after a few weeks of working with someone they might need to move on. I remember I had to tell a Death Knight to go because he wanted to play 2H Frost. Thats simply unacceptable in Heroic and Mythic raiding because there are two other DPS specs that perform the same role at a much higher level.

You cant simply throw loot to people or expect other people to put in 100% effort every week if someone is happy putting in 80% effort because its fun.

So for me, its NEVER about "If he was doing 20% extra this boss would be dead." NEVER. Its simply about people putting in the effort not only for themselves but for their friends around them.

Well now i understand what you meant. I was talking from a perspective of casual mythic with limited amount of people (that's why i mentioned benched players. They are still guild members and should have a chance to get into a raid). Off course when you are doing week 1 mythic raid, while undergeared you will push everything to get an advantage, especially when you have resources to do so.

From my experience, people with only one spec are often OK with them being replaced if you explain to them that they are dragging the raid down, so, if you have someone to replace them - sure thing, but if you are going to LFG channel and spam "full raid need +1 DD" or something - that's bad. If you are the one spec player you just have to accept this and expect being brought up only for 1-2 bosses i guess.

So, my point is, if you, as a player, want to experience Mythic raids you can stick to your weak spec, but don't expect to get "early" experience (you will have to delay your progress to the point when you outgear mythic content). Be ready to be benched for most part of the raid. Or be a RL GF or something.
If you want to do actual mythic content - you have to be flexible and push everything to the limit. And i'm not talking about using the strongest spec, but about having multiple raid-ready toons in their strongest specs.

[Deleted]

If your idea of fun is pushing the hardest content then it's not as important what spec you play.

Hum i understand and agree to a certain extent on what you say, but i think it is not so simple sometimes, there are people who like pushing the hardest content who do not mind changing specs even it it means changing your role DPS/TANK/HEALER, people who like pushing the hardest content at whatever spec but not changing their role, and finally people who like pushing the hardest content but are adamant with one class and only one spec, being the latter the ones with the biggest issue in case their spec is at the bottom of the barrel.
But yeah i do agree that being like it is, if you are only up to one class and one spec, you better say goodbye to competitive PVE or PVP.

[MatadorMedia]

Play whatever spec you enjoy and have fun, it's a game. Unless you are "hardcore" progression raiding, just find a casual raiding guild.

[melodramocracy]

I mean, if you're not setting sights on mythic raiding you shouldn't be raiding since that is the endgame everyone is intended to strive toward.

This is a ridiculous assessment.

[Tobs92]

Friends and me did our first 3 mythics last night.
DK Tank, Disci, Pirate Rogue, Boomie and Frost Mage.

We barely had any problems at all. DPS was fine, heal was fine, tank successfully got his face beaten.

Play what you want, play with people you feel comfortable playing with and things will work.

[Kazgrel]

Ele shaman players have been doing this for most of that spec's existence.

[frymastermeat]

The FotM spec is only relevant if you're in a top 10 guild that's trying to clear on the first few weeks when damage checks are the major hurdle. After a few months the average mythic guild will have enough gear that wiping is not the result of subpar damage, it's the result of people screwing up mechanics. From the perspective of someone who was a gladiator in PvP before I ever seriously got into raiding, mythic raiding really isn't as hard as people make it out to be.

If you wanted to, you could go to one of these cancerous epeen.com sites and find the lowest ranked spec in the game and still do better than 80% of the people in your average mythic guild. People that get righteous about "not wasting my time" when they see someone playing an "unviable" spec are mostly just trying to hide their insecurity about choosing the FotM spec because they feel they need an edge or because they can't think for themselves.

[Ribesal]

Play what you want to play. There will always be a few situations where a "worse" spec is better than the "good" spec.
It just isn't worth to play something you don't like

And pushing your own damage as high as possible at all costs is sometimes a very bad idea since it can result in lower raid damage, sounds weird at first but mar'gok and kromog were good examples for this
unholy dks and enhancement shamans could aoe the hands at kromog pretty well without loosing much or any single target damage, but everyone in my raid specced as much aoe as possible, so even in first kills i had to look out that my firenova doesn't kill any hands to early.
At the 4th or 5th kill i could finally convince them it would be better to use single target talents and let our uh dk and me aoe the hands, as a result the boss died 1 min faster than in the previous week...
this may be unrelated to your question, but i just wanted to point out that theoretical damage isn't the only thing you should look at
and that's also an other problem, in logs your dps is shown as your own work, but it's the work of your whole raid group


going for world first kills is another topic

[ComputerNerd]

Acceptable by who's standards ?
No content fundamentally demands you play one over another.
In certain encounters there may be one with better tools, but that does not make it a requirement inherently.
It is players that create the view that certain specs are useless.

[Shadowferal]

Hmf...I played feral druid way back when it was considered a broken spec. (solo/casual)
It was fun for me.
At least then..

[trm90]

The biggest problem of FotM specs and sims is that most players don't want to spend the time to make an informed choice (i.e. actually playing around with and testing) if a spec is good or not. Mages are probably the worst for this - Frost and Arcane are literally nowhere to be seen.

I don't blame people. WoW demands time and energy, and we don't always have the time or energy to learn a new spec. When you're also investing a bunch of AP and speccing e.g. crit (for fire) instead of mastery/haste (for arcane), it can feel really risky to change things up. It gets even worse when a spec is so dependent on stats to get going (mastery for Arcane, haste for Ret, as examples).

This is pretty much why I would trust an unconventional DPS spec into a raid, especially if they've clearly put effort into learning the spec.