[Balance] Legion Discussion

[Alame]

I heard that ST was allegedly one of our stronger points, wasn't it?

Single target is one of our stronger points in that it's better than our burst AoE.

Moonkin's true strength is sustained AoE, really shining in spread AoE (think a council fight where each boss has to be 10yrds apart)

Concerning the patchwerk sim, as others have said there's only so much that you can conclude from it. In a real single target boss encounter there are mechanics that will change the action list, and in general that means every class gets lower numbers than listed here. Movement impacts some classes more than others (melee have virtually no penalty if they can stay in range) and the amount & type of mechanics vary from boss to boss. There's no way to correct for mechanics and pull out a good estimate - this is why people always tell you to take sim results with a mountain of salt.

Based on what I've seen, in the 5 major archtypes of boss fights we are:

Pure single target - Just below average
Single target w/ burst cleave - Well below average
1 boss w/ long-life adds - Slightly above average
Council - Above average
Multi-target (think Spoils of Pandaria) - slightly below average

All in all, nothing to write home about.

I also think despite some individual's best efforts the APL is quite far from optimal. I need more experience before I can really guess how though.

[joltcola1234]

What specs are people using for heroics/mythics right now? Just curious on what variations people have gone with in the lower portions of the talent tree:

Force of Nature
Renewal
Resto Affininty
Typhoon
Incarnation
Astral Communion
Fury of Elune

Is what I've been using, my item level is very low though as I've only been 110 for a couple days

I'm mostly interested in what people have gone with between Incarnation/Stellar Flare, Astral/Blessing of the Ancients.

[Kyanion]

What specs are people using for heroics/mythics right now? Just curious on what variations people have gone with in the lower portions of the talent tree:

Force of Nature
Renewal
Resto Affininty
Typhoon
Incarnation
Astral Communion
Fury of Elune

Is what I've been using, my item level is very low though as I've only been 110 for a couple days

I'm mostly interested in what people have gone with between Incarnation/Stellar Flare, Astral/Blessing of the Ancients.

In mythics I tend to run:

Starlord
Renewal
Guardian Affinity (switched to this after the hotfix to healing touch)
Typhoon
Soul of the Forest
Shooting Stars
Nature's Balance

I find it easier to maintain the dots on single target fights with NB and I like Starlord/SoTF together. However my mythic group has amazing AoE damage without me so I can focus a bit more on single target.

I just haven't enjoyed the FoE playstyle so avoided using it for now.

[Kharahh]

In mythics I tend to run:

Starlord
Renewal
Guardian Affinity (switched to this after the hotfix to healing touch)
Typhoon
Soul of the Forest
Shooting Stars
Nature's Balance

I find it easier to maintain the dots on single target fights with NB and I like Starlord/SoTF together. However my mythic group has amazing AoE damage without me so I can focus a bit more on single target.

I just haven't enjoyed the FoE playstyle so avoided using it for now.

I've tried the SLord/StFlare/CA/NB build and it is good, just the trash cleave is rather subpar - you definitely will not keep up with a DH. On bosses though is another story in the sense that theyre much closer. I'd recommend using this as it feels simple enough.

I am currently focusing on learning the FoE spec, achieving 300-400k /w ilvl 843 on most boss fights, and a good amount of damage on trash that seems very competitive to the melee clusterfuck that seems to be happening:

FoN
DBeast (need the mobility; you would silly to not take this /w dash on such a high cooldown and the need to be quick in mythic+)
Restoration (because in 5 mans the utility of off heals is amazing and is wipe prevention by far; less in raids)
Typhoon
Incarnation
AC
FoE

Definitely have screwed up the rotation a few times, but it is so worth learning to do it. I find it is exceptionally strong in dungeons where the boss does not really move much / tank places boss in a stationary place. A good example would be VH where FoE seems to be up pretty much for every trash pack.

Side note: It feels amazing throwing down the ion cannon coupled with a moonmoon!

[iddqd]

Noobquestion: why is it that you only cast Lunar Strike with 4+ targets? As it does cleave, i would have used it with 2+. Please enlighten me

[Lora]

anyone have any idea on how to obtain our hidden skin?

[Deleted]

What specs are people using for heroics/mythics right now? Just curious on what variations people have gone with in the lower portions of the talent tree:

Force of Nature
Renewal
Resto Affininty
Typhoon
Incarnation
Astral Communion
Fury of Elune

Is what I've been using, my item level is very low though as I've only been 110 for a couple days

I'm mostly interested in what people have gone with between Incarnation/Stellar Flare, Astral/Blessing of the Ancients.

I go with:
Starlord, Displacer, Resto, Typhoon, Incarnation, Shooting Stars, Natures

I like NB for the fact that it is strong single-target, and you can pretty much get rid of renewing Moonfire on longer cleaves. Combined with Shooting Stars the damage is pretty great. I should switch Starlord to Force of Nature, because it is strong in a lot of scenarios.

[xtramuscle]

When does shooting stars pull ahead of bota? I was using foe as I love it. But found better results with nb. That said I've since gained gear and not swapped back. Perhaps I should give it another go. Also can anyone beat a 2.3mil full moon on two targets?

[Adramelch]

In regards with the simulation posted above. It has us at gear with 10k crit, 4k versa, 2k mastery and 0 (!!!) haste, so take of that what you will. It also has 3 points into Empowerment and 2 relics that give +1 rank to that trait.

[Threadstrong]

I just noticed the lack of haste. What would be a more appropriate guesstimate of our pure ST numbers?

[joltcola1234]

Seems a number of people are running natures balance over fury of elune.

Can anyone elaborate on why this would be? Is it because the play style is just easier? The damage potential of FoE seems much higher then NB.

I can see the synergy between natures balance and shooting stars though.

[Madus]

Seems a number of people are running natures balance over fury of elune.

Can anyone elaborate on why this would be? Is it because the play style is just easier? The damage potential of FoE seems much higher then NB.

I can see the synergy between natures balance and shooting stars though.

Because using it is more of annoyance like fun and it can be easily wasted (even without your failing).

[Lucrece]

Seems a number of people are running natures balance over fury of elune.

Can anyone elaborate on why this would be? Is it because the play style is just easier? The damage potential of FoE seems much higher then NB.

I can see the synergy between natures balance and shooting stars though.

Nature's Balance is better for single target; that is, most dungeon bosses.

Moonkin is treash in aoe trash pulls except every 1.3 minutes when FoE is up. So you're choosing a talent to be less crap at aoe but you're still on average quite crap, when you could choose a talent to let you shine on bosses where your advantages are better spent.

[SpamHealzu]

Ive been running the spec purely around FoE damage and wreck quite a bit. Its pretty easy with WoE --> Incarnation --> AC --> FoE to keep it up for full Incarnation and you absolutely burn through boss health. Your dps on trash just needs to be better planned to make sure you have FoE up for bosses but still can be done to great success on trash as well. You just wont compete with DH or Dks on trash.

[Cyous]

What if we were fine and certain melee were just overtuned?

[Weissrolf]

What spells create the fastest AP per second, aka what is best used to keep FoE up?

[Gatao]

Could someone provide some info on which trinkets you are using?

Currently using oakheart's Gnarled root 850 and orb of voidsight,not sure if i should drop it for 840 eye of skovald

[Alame]

What if we were fine and certain melee were just overtuned?

Occam's razor.

Unless you're suggesting Blizzard is incapable of recognizing 6+ specs are overtuned - which would take massive incompetence on their part - the simplest answer is always that the one is the outlier, and not the many.

It's probable that 2-3 specs on the higher end of things are slightly overtuned, but to suggest the state of Balance is the true median and everything performing better than Balance is overtuned is ridiculous.

[Tyze]

So how is the rotation guys? I stopped my Boomkin at 102, went for Mage. But starting to look back.

Rotation smooth or 'stressful' by stressful I mean there's alot to think about :P

[MV Kaa]

Smooth, basically hit the buttonns that light up