I just can't get behind fel rushing on rotation :(

[Deleted]

questiun: do you guys really use fel rush offensively in dungeons? and retreat too? I'm still doing normal dungeons while leveling but passing through packs of mobs and bosses is just not fun, I have tried different positions and it is a choooree. Not to mention how risky it is considering boss mechanics and suuuuch

[Not Againnn]

questiun: do you guys really use fel rush offensively in dungeons? and retreat too? I'm still doing normal dungeons while leveling but passing through packs of mobs and bosses is just not fun, I have tried different positions and it is a choooree. Not to mention how risky it is considering boss mechanics and suuuuch

i posted a video on this forum a few minutes ago that shows off momentum. and yes, we do all of that.

[Luko]

questiun: do you guys really use fel rush offensively in dungeons? and retreat too? I'm still doing normal dungeons while leveling but passing through packs of mobs and bosses is just not fun, I have tried different positions and it is a choooree. Not to mention how risky it is considering boss mechanics and suuuuch

Serious question. Are you controlling your camera with your mouse? If so, it's as simple as a quick snap back to where you need to be if you happen to go through a pack, but more often than not, you're rushing after a retreat which (assuming you positioned right) puts you almost right back where you were before the leap backwards.

[Deleted]

I don't get why people don't like fel rushing for damage. It's so unique for a melee class to operate like that and that's without momentum which is an even cooler way to play the spec AND its the best way for pure damage. There are so many people whining though that they hate playing that way, in which case don't, you don't have to, but you end up turning a fun and unique class into something incredibly boring. I guess people just wanna sprout wings, look flashy and press 2 buttons though. :/

[Goregan]

I know its not the top choice but going for fel rush and felblade abck in is also my choice here as its so fun to play and froma casual pve perspective easy to udnerstand, also the resets happen quite often so you can also use it with vault.

[Schizoide]

Bloodlet is much, much more damage than Felblade. Try throwing a glaive while you run back in after VRing out.

[Deleted]

i posted a video on this forum a few minutes ago that shows off momentum. and yes, we do all of that.

yeah, well, that is what I'm doing, and there are moments when I need to run to target

Serious question. Are you controlling your camera with your mouse? If so, it's as simple as a quick snap back to where you need to be if you happen to go through a pack, but more often than not, you're rushing after a retreat which (assuming you positioned right) puts you almost right back where you were before the leap backwards.

yes. isn't retreat-rush a waste of it? in a sense that each one gives a bonus and by combining it we don't squish damugg out of our other abilities?

[jayinjersey]

Now playing heavy for a week...I can say if I was to "tune" the class/talents

I would remove Momo from VR
So we could VR into a FR (the truest form of a momentum smash I can think of).


And to counter Bloodlet's dominance over Felblade...I would allow Felblade to proc Momo.
Which would allow for greater Momo uptime at the expense of the Bloodlet damage.

[Deleted]

Now playing heavy for a week...I can say if I was to "tune" the class/talents

I would remove Momo from VR
So we could VR into a FR (the truest form of a momentum smash I can think of).


And to counter Bloodlet's dominance over Felblade...I would allow Felblade to proc Momo.
Which would allow for greater Momo uptime at the expense of the Bloodlet damage.

nah thats poopy

[Hexxidecimal]

yeah, well, that is what I'm doing, and there are moments when I need to run to target

yes. isn't retreat-rush a waste of it? in a sense that each one gives a bonus and by combining it we don't squish damugg out of our other abilities?

Retreat rush is a waste if you are specced for momo. If you aren't it's perfectly fine.

[kaelleria]

Felrush is an overloaded ability because it's specifically designed to feel good to use... Removing some of the damage from it would get away from that and make the ability worse from a game design perspective.

The devs have very specific class fantasies they're trying to play out and things like FR play into that. DH are supposed to be a hyper-mobile, aoe damage dealer. Removing the incentive to be mobile goes directly against that class fantasy.

[Katchii]

Only thing I don't like about Fel Rush as a major damage component is while leveling you are quite often at high altitudes for quests (High Mountain and Stormheim specifically) and in tight spots so Fel Rushing and VR'ing is incredibly risky. Highmountain quests at the top of the mountains with the Harpies were a pain in the ass since I literally could not Fel Rush without flying of the mountain in several instances.

Momentum needs to be like 1-2 seconds longer, 4 seconds when you need to re position to take advantage of it and then only have a 1-2 second window to do anything with a GCD of 1.5 seconds or so only leaves you to do like 1 move after you activate it. In a raid environment when you also have to be paying attention to mechanics....I foresee a SHITLOAD of Demon Hunters not being able to use Momentum effectively simply because it's just not active long enough for them to FR/VR and re position AND watch mechanics and THEN use an ability that is buffed by 20%. It could be argued that it's a skill thing, but even optimally executed, sims only show ~60% uptime. That means that with only a ~2 second window to execute anything people realistically only benefit from Momentum 30% of the time. And it's within that much smaller 30% that you need to operate to maximze DPS...which just doesn't seem likely in most raid situations and seems like more of a liability to me.

Currently only Throw Glaive and Eye Beam are likely to be consistently buffed by Momentum, everything else is likely to get lost in positioning so you don't die from AoE or something.

I like the idea of the talent and how it forces you to play, it's a fun playstyle, I just think in a high intensity raid environment being so focused on optimizing your uptime just practically forces people with Momentum to make bad decisions to optimize their DPS and end up dead or soaking up healer mana on avoidable damage.

[kaelleria]

I haven't had many issues(screw you Xavius) on the current content (all the mythic dungeons) and from what I understand the only fight that you really can't use it on when raiding rolls around is Star Augur.

Momentum usage is what sets apart good DH from bad DH. I don't see an issue with a skillcap talent/ability as we don't really have any others...

[Schizoide]

Momentum isn't the problem. It's worth 4% DPS and is challenging to execute properly, that equals a perfectly fine talent.

The problem is that Fel Rush needs to be used twice every 20s even without taking Fel Mastery, Prepared, and Momentum.

Players should be allowed to opt-out of repositioning rotationally via talents, at a <5% total DPS cost.

[darkwarrior42]

questiun: do you guys really use fel rush offensively in dungeons? and retreat too? I'm still doing normal dungeons while leveling but passing through packs of mobs and bosses is just not fun, I have tried different positions and it is a choooree. Not to mention how risky it is considering boss mechanics and suuuuch

They do, yes.

I tank. Between Fel Rushing Demon Hunters and Barraging Hunters, I've become very keenly aware of the location of every trash pack, as well as how to pick them up on the fly when someone shoots or charges into a group accidentally.

[Hexxidecimal]

Felrush is an overloaded ability because it's specifically designed to feel good to use... Removing some of the damage from it would get away from that and make the ability worse from a game design perspective.

The devs have very specific class fantasies they're trying to play out and things like FR play into that. DH are supposed to be a hyper-mobile, aoe damage dealer. Removing the incentive to be mobile goes directly against that class fantasy.

It also creates a pigeon hole. That fantasy puts far too much emphasis on talents that further empower the Fel Rushes use. There are a few things I think they could do to keep that fantasy and fix the issue. Fel Rush shouldn't be mandatory and really isn't necessary to keep the class "feeling" mobile. Take away some of the base damage from Fel Rush, back it into Fel Mastery then buff/move talents like First Blood. Blade Dance gives a large sense of mobility without actually being a mobility ability.

- - - Updated - - -

They do, yes.

I tank. Between Fel Rushing Demon Hunters and Barraging Hunters, I've become very keenly aware of the location of every trash pack, as well as how to pick them up on the fly when someone shoots or charges into a group accidentally.

Ah this. I tank as well occasionally on my DH. If there is a havoc DH or Barrage Hunter in my group, I just go ahead and pull easily pulled adds. I also announce it at the beginning, in the least mean way possible. I just say, I am going to be pulling extra mobs to avoid adds. I don't name names or classes lol. I like to be nice.

[darkwarrior42]

Ah this. I tank as well occasionally on my DH. If there is a havoc DH or Barrage Hunter in my group, I just go ahead and pull easily pulled adds. I also announce it at the beginning, in the least mean way possible. I just say, I am going to be pulling extra mobs to avoid adds. I don't name names or classes lol. I like to be nice.

That's not a bad idea ^_^

To be fair, I've also seen some fantastic havoc DHs, who used momentum without pulling extra adds or dashing in front of the Amalgam of Souls right in time to eat a Soul Reap (I had to giggle at that one).

[kaelleria]

It also creates a pigeon hole. That fantasy puts far too much emphasis on talents that further empower the Fel Rushes use. There are a few things I think they could do to keep that fantasy and fix the issue. Fel Rush shouldn't be mandatory and really isn't necessary to keep the class "feeling" mobile. Take away some of the base damage from Fel Rush, back it into Fel Mastery then buff/move talents like First Blood. Blade Dance gives a large sense of mobility without actually being a mobility ability.

BD currently is a bit of a trap ability, so buffing it could be beneficial, it just can't be the optimal or close to the optimal playstyle. If whatever talent makes BD better for ST usage is close to equivalent with the FR playstyle, I could see a lot of people just never using FR ever.

Realistically I'm way more concerned about Bloodlet and MoTG than I am of FR.

[Zeds Dead]

I play and enjoy the momentum build.

Our talent tree and particularly the first tier is just flat out bad.

We need.more options, particularly for single target since that is where we are weak.

As great as fel rush is, there is never a situation where you can't take the talent and have to use it on cd. This means any raid fight where it is not safe to rush about is gonna be horrendous.

For a class with only two specs, we deserve a Co.plete dps spec with options.

[Hexxidecimal]

BD currently is a bit of a trap ability, so buffing it could be beneficial, it just can't be the optimal or close to the optimal playstyle. If whatever talent makes BD better for ST usage is close to equivalent with the FR playstyle, I could see a lot of people just never using FR ever.

Realistically I'm way more concerned about Bloodlet and MoTG than I am of FR.

Why are you more concerned about those? They don't much affect mobility. Unless you mean pigeon holing talents, then yeah they are those as well. But those are more of a "nothing else is any good on the row" issue, well MotG anyway. All the more reason to buff first blood though then eh? That and in general TG is waaaay less of a annoying forced ability than Fel Rush can be.

But no, honestly you wouldn't have to worry about Blade Dance overtaking Fel Rush. As long as Fel Rush procs momo Fel Rush WOULD be used. That is the point. You make two distinctive play styles. One that uses Felrush on CD and one that utilizes Blade Dance instead. Tweak the numbers to the BD set up is slightly lower than Momo. You keep the same mobile feeling while still focusing on AoE.