Resto help needed

[Deleted]

Hey!

I'm a newly restoration druid main (was a blood tank), and I'm currently having truck loads of issues in mythic dungeons. Tanks with all of my hots on them just keep dropping below 40% constantly, making me have to spam regrowth's endlessly on people all around me because the dmg intake from adds/bosses is far greater than what my hots heal for. This in turn is making me go oom pretty often which is getting quite annoying. Our holy paladin and resto shaman have next to no issues healing mythics while I'm struggling. Since armory isn't working for some reason I'm just going to write down my stats/talents

Cenarion Ward, Displacer Beast, Guardian Affinity, Typhoon, Soul of the Forest, Germination, Flourish.
Ilvl 830
Crit: 16%
Haste: 21%
Mastery: 13%
Versatility: 3%

I make sure to keep rejuv up twice on tank, as well as making sure that lifebloom is also up 100%, while also applying regrowth.

Sometimes it's smoother, when I have a guardian or prot warrior. But blood and DH are a pain in the ass to heal. Any response and critique will be appreciated.

[Tiberria]

You shouldn't need to be endlessly spamming Regrowths on people - especially non tanks. If you find that you're having issues keeping single targets alive, I would suggest switching Soul of the Forest to Cultivation. That way, your priority should be to immediately get a Rejuv up on any target that dips to low health, because it immediately gives at least 2 mastery stacks. You may also want to try dropping Germination for Spring Blossoms, at least if you can get all or most of your party positioned in an Efflo. That will give you a minimum of 3 mastery stacks (Rejuv, Cultivation and Spring Blossoms) on any target that needs to be triage healed, which should help a lot in making the Rejuv blanket hit harder and reducing the amount of direct heals needed. SB is often better to use in practise than Germination, because SB provides the mastery stack passively and without GCD and mana investment, saving more GCDs and mana to be used as needed elsewhere.

Also, make sure to make liberal use of lining up Wild Growth with Flourish and/or Essence of G'Hanir whenever there is more than moderate party wide damage. The two of them chained together is a virtual extra raid CD and greatly improves overall party healing - especially if you already have Rejuvs on all or most party members before the WG was cast (and you likely will). I prefer to use CW on near cooldown to keep the tank stable whenever there is anything more than light tank damage as well. It is often my 2nd or 3rd highest healing output source in a Mythic 5 man.

[chunx0r]

I ran all of the mythics(except CoS, Arcway) before the lockout on my resto druid, starting at 820ish and ending 839. I run with prosperity and stonebark. I really think stonebark is a must have. It really helps on trash pulls. by the time the iron bark is off the tank at least 1 of the mobs is dead.

[Wild]

U need to talent ironbark instead of flourish and keep in on CD on the tank when needed. All hots and make sure u also cast WG to heal tank.
Keep ur SWIFTMEND on CD as needed and use it(sotf) with Rejuvenation/Germination!
Also make sure u renew lifebloom at <4 sec for it to bloom.
Efflorecense always under tank/melee.
Hit G'Hanir when needed, keep it mostly on CD.

I get perfectly well with this.

[Rocksteadee]

Also make sure u renew lifebloom at <4 sec for it to bloom.

Is it less than 4 or 5 seconds? I guess I can check later but at work right now.

[Tiberria]

I don't think Stonebark is at all required - at least for regular Mythics (Mythic+ it might be in some dungeons). I found that as long as I was doing things properly, and the tank was properly using active mitigation, etc, that I didn't need Ironbark to be used anywhere close to on cooldown at 90 seconds. The extra 30 seconds would be a waste a lot of the time. Plus, if you use Flourish while the Cenarion Ward HoT is rolling on the tank, you are adding a huge amount of extra tank healing that rivals the extra tank mitigation you get from being able to use Ironbark 33% more often. Plus, you then also have the flexibility to leverage Flourish with WG for party healing as needed.

I still maintain that Stonebark is largely a terrible talent, and really only should be taken if you absolutely can not keep a tank up without it. That just shouldn't be the case in Mythics at 815+ ilvl.

[Sedative]

Also make sure u renew lifebloom at <4 sec for it to bloom.

Is it less than 4 or 5 seconds? I guess I can check later but at work right now.

Am I a completely boosted animal or...? What does this mean? I thought we wanted to let it expire for the bloom heal, then recast it, not renew it?

[chunx0r]

Am I a completely boosted animal or...? What does this mean? I thought we wanted to let it expire for the bloom heal, then recast it, not renew it?

If you refresh it after a certain threshold time, which i think varies by haste? It will bloom when you cast the new lifebloom. I'm still running default UI so i'm not sure on the seconds but you can get a feel for it. Like you said though letting it fall off isn't world ending.

- - - Updated - - -

I still maintain that Stonebark is largely a terrible talent, and really only should be taken if you absolutely can not keep a tank up without it. That just shouldn't be the case in Mythics at 815+ ilvl.

I really like it. It's pretty versatile it can be used to save a tank, but i also use it offensively. I know if i have bloom double rejuv, and iron bark on the tank he won't take any noticeable damage. I can get in and get a 5cp rip off on the boss and get a good amount of damage in.

[Sedative]

If you refresh it after a certain threshold time, which i think varies by haste? It will bloom when you cast the new lifebloom. I'm still running default UI so i'm not sure on the seconds but you can get a feel for it. Like you said though letting it fall off isn't world ending.

This is not by design right...? Must have something to do with haste/latency? I can't find any documentation of this 'mechanic'...?

[Keiyra]

This is not by design right...? Must have something to do with haste/latency? I can't find any documentation of this 'mechanic'...?

there was already a WHOLE thread about this, so if you want more details you can search for it. Its the Pandemic mechanic given to all hots/dots in 2014.

Short version: Yes it is by design, its part of the pandemic refreshing that all hots/dots received in WoD. In short, if you refresh a hot/dot when it has 30% or less of its duration, the refreshed version has up to 130% of the normal duration (warlocks can get up to 150%).

Because lifebloom has the added bloom portion, when they implemented this mechanic, they included the bloom when refreshing in that pandemic window, so as not to penalize lifebloom compared to other hots/dots. So if you refresh a fresh lifebloom (15 sec) at 4.5 sec or less - you'll get the bloom and refresh the hot. When refreshing a max duration lifebloom (19.5 secs) you can get the bloom while refreshing at 5.85 secs or less. If you dont want to deal with tracking it or setting up WA for it - just refresh at 4 sec or under and you'll be good to go in either scenario.

[Sedative]

its part of the pandemic refreshing that all hots/dots received in WoD

Thanks, I was looking at something specific to Lifebloom erroneously. I looked up 'pandemic' and it seems to have been a mechanic added in WoD (which I mostly skipped). I'll do some reading on the pandemic mechanic. Cheers!

[Sonatine185]

Wouldn't it be better to cast healing touch if the tank already has a regrowth hot?

[wrathblade]

Not sure.
Healing touch is slow.
Regrowth is fast and gets more crit.
When it xrits you get the seed buff for more healing the next.time the take dmg.
Not sure tho!

[Keiyra]

Wouldn't it be better to cast healing touch if the tank already has a regrowth hot?

Depends on how "in danger" the tank is and how important mana is to you at that moment.

Healing Touch is slow and only heals for 400% SP. one extra stack of mastery from RG hot ain't that big a deal (and RG direct heal would benefit from it equally)

Regrowth + Living Seed (without the artifact bonus) on average (with no crit on gear) will heal for 494% SP (and that is ignoring the hot)
The artifact bonus to living seed makes it even stronger. (living seed is pretty reliable on the tank - not so much anyone else)
The downside is Regrowth costs double the mana, and should it fail to crit...well, not good.

SO which one you use depends on how in danger the tank is, how vital is it that the cast land fast, and can you afford to spend the mana down the road.

Generally in 5 mans (mythics and +) mana is not an issue, since u can drink often, and tank damage comes in hard and fast, so RG spamming during times of tank danger is more feasible.

[Wild]

When you refresh Lifebloom within the 30% of its *current* maximum duration it will bloom the *very moment* you refresh it. This means any refresh within the last 4.5 seconds of the original 15 seconds, which means that after 10.5 seconds you can get the first bloom.

One bloom is worth about 4 Rejuv ticks in HPs healed. Lifebloom's HoT + bloom heals for about 66% more HPs than Rejuv, in return for costing 20% more mana.

- - - Updated - - -

If you refresh it after a certain threshold time, which i think varies by haste? It will bloom when you cast the new lifebloom. I'm still running default UI so i'm not sure on the seconds but you can get a feel for it. Like you said though letting it fall off isn't world ending.

- - - Updated - - -

Lifebloom's "bloom" does NOT vary by haste. It only depends on the original duration of the normal 15 sec, take 30% that makes 4.5 sec or lower. If you renew it at 5sec it wont bloom.
(u can always "hear" the bloom if u pay close attention, so just try it out)

[Deleted]

Hey!

I'm a newly restoration druid main (was a blood tank), and I'm currently having truck loads of issues in mythic dungeons. Tanks with all of my hots on them just keep dropping below 40% constantly, making me have to spam regrowth's endlessly on people all around me because the dmg intake from adds/bosses is far greater than what my hots heal for. This in turn is making me go oom pretty often which is getting quite annoying. Our holy paladin and resto shaman have next to no issues healing mythics while I'm struggling. Since armory isn't working for some reason I'm just going to write down my stats/talents

Cenarion Ward, Displacer Beast, Guardian Affinity, Typhoon, Soul of the Forest, Germination, Flourish.
Ilvl 830
Crit: 16%
Haste: 21%
Mastery: 13%
Versatility: 3%

I make sure to keep rejuv up twice on tank, as well as making sure that lifebloom is also up 100%, while also applying regrowth.

Sometimes it's smoother, when I have a guardian or prot warrior. But blood and DH are a pain in the ass to heal. Any response and critique will be appreciated.

Hello!

Before replying to your side of this, don't forget that blood and DH have tons of self-heal. If they don't play properly they will give you a very hard time, if not an impossible time.

Do you use your Essence of G'hanir on those spike damage moments? It's great for those "OH GOD EVERYONE IS ABOUT TO DIE" moments. For maximum healing:
Make sure your group has all at least one rejuv (if they all take damage obviously)
Pop swiftmend 1:
Regrowth on tank (200% healing after swiftmend because of SotF talent you have)
Pop swiftmend 2:
Cast wild growth (+75% healing after swiftmend because of SotF talent you have)
Pop Essence of G'Hanir.

[Wild]

I don't think Stonebark is at all required - at least for regular Mythics (Mythic+ it might be in some dungeons). I found that as long as I was doing things properly, and the tank was properly using active mitigation, etc, that I didn't need Ironbark to be used anywhere close to on cooldown at 90 seconds. The extra 30 seconds would be a waste a lot of the time. Plus, if you use Flourish while the Cenarion Ward HoT is rolling on the tank, you are adding a huge amount of extra tank healing that rivals the extra tank mitigation you get from being able to use Ironbark 33% more often. Plus, you then also have the flexibility to leverage Flourish with WG for party healing as needed.

I still maintain that Stonebark is largely a terrible talent, and really only should be taken if you absolutely can not keep a tank up without it. That just shouldn't be the case in Mythics at 815+ ilvl.

THIS mostly depends on the tank. I still see tanks that use no CD whatsoever when big dmg comes in. If u have a good tank, there is never a real problem. But what is the chance of getting a "good" tank in pugs?
If u use ironbark talented u aim secondarily for the lower CD but u aim primary for the 20% heal increase that u get from it. It is HUGE. I have never seen a tank die with Ironbark on him.
Its not an "oh shit then tank is gonna die" Skill, thats why u can also keep it on CD if needed. It is also great if big group dmg comes in, cast in on the tank and u can focus on the DDs and urself with no stess, thinking that when u heal the group the tank is gonna die.
in the end it all depends on "flavor". I like it, I use it, I get well with it, my tanks dont die with it. So it works for ME.

[RestoSpirit]

Hey!

I'm a newly restoration druid main (was a blood tank), and I'm currently having truck loads of issues in mythic dungeons. Tanks with all of my hots on them just keep dropping below 40% constantly, making me have to spam regrowth's endlessly on people all around me because the dmg intake from adds/bosses is far greater than what my hots heal for. This in turn is making me go oom pretty often which is getting quite annoying. Our holy paladin and resto shaman have next to no issues healing mythics while I'm struggling. Since armory isn't working for some reason I'm just going to write down my stats/talents

Cenarion Ward, Displacer Beast, Guardian Affinity, Typhoon, Soul of the Forest, Germination, Flourish.
Ilvl 830
Crit: 16%
Haste: 21%
Mastery: 13%
Versatility: 3%

I make sure to keep rejuv up twice on tank, as well as making sure that lifebloom is also up 100%, while also applying regrowth.

Sometimes it's smoother, when I have a guardian or prot warrior. But blood and DH are a pain in the ass to heal. Any response and critique will be appreciated.

Hey
it really seems to be a problem with your group and not your healing skills. I have done mythics the first reset with Pally-Tank, Rogue, 2x Hunter (1x MM, 1x BM) and an average ilvl of 817, it was pretty easy. For some bosses I could even switch to DPS and we nuked them with BL still running.
I used Prosperity, Displacer, Balance Affinity, Mighty Bash, Sotf, Germination and Flourish (only switching Flourish to Stonebark for some of the harder Trashpacks).
The second reset I had like 838-840ilvl and went 2 mythics with a different guildgroup and we got DESTROYED. Even pulling close to 400k HPS I couldn't keep them alive. Your DPS HAS to CC the Trashpacks and the Tank has to use his cooldowns properly or you just can't heal it. So my advice is to tell your DPS to read guide and ask your tank to use his CDs.
Another problem could be your group lacking damage. We had the 3 DPS at around 250-300k and the tank at around 120-150k, that is for single target boss fights with the rogue spiking at almost 700k during big Trashpulls. Its worth to wait for BL coming off CD if you know you want to skip certain mechanics by just deleting the boss with 4 DPS + Tank.
As for the healing part:
Tank-Healing:
I usually keep a Lifebloom running on the tank no matter what, to get OoC proccs. Often using OoC with Sotf to get an empowered Regrowth on the Tank. Keep Rejus on him as you see fitting. Then return to Moonkin and start doing DPS.
Heavy-AOE-Healing:
Blanket the group with double rejus and sotf-WG - > Flourish -> G'hanir -> Tranq (if needed). You can use Innervate-Bloodlust for really big trash pulls if you know you wont need it for the next 2 bosses and just spam Regrowth + 1x WG during the innervate (only viable if Flourish+G'hanir is on CD).

Note: English is not my native tongue, I'm sorry for any mistakes. This post is obviously my opinion on the matter, I'm sure other people have different opinions and they are all correct.

Spirit

[Drekor]

Hey!

I'm a newly restoration druid main (was a blood tank), and I'm currently having truck loads of issues in mythic dungeons. Tanks with all of my hots on them just keep dropping below 40% constantly, making me have to spam regrowth's endlessly on people all around me because the dmg intake from adds/bosses is far greater than what my hots heal for. This in turn is making me go oom pretty often which is getting quite annoying. Our holy paladin and resto shaman have next to no issues healing mythics while I'm struggling. Since armory isn't working for some reason I'm just going to write down my stats/talents

Cenarion Ward, Displacer Beast, Guardian Affinity, Typhoon, Soul of the Forest, Germination, Flourish.
Ilvl 830
Crit: 16%
Haste: 21%
Mastery: 13%
Versatility: 3%

I make sure to keep rejuv up twice on tank, as well as making sure that lifebloom is also up 100%, while also applying regrowth.

Sometimes it's smoother, when I have a guardian or prot warrior. But blood and DH are a pain in the ass to heal. Any response and critique will be appreciated.

Alright so a few things...

DH Tank + Druid Healer is basically the worst combination possible. DH's health spikes up and down and we don't have the burst healing to really do anything about that. They have ridiculous amounts of self heal though so you don't really need to panic... although this combo will usual result it heart issues for both tank and healer. If you are playing with one regularly get in voice chat with each other and make sure you communicate cooldown usage. You'll also see this get substantially better as the DH progresses as they get better gear they have better uptime on demon spikes they get even better leech through legendaries... which will help out immensely.

Blood Tank shouldn't be an issue, and if there are major issues there it's almost likely entirely on the tanks side for not making proper use of bone shield and death strike.

There are some things you can do to mitigate this... if you are having issues with tank healing then putting more into mastery it is incredibly beneficial. While it's not ideal for raiding, for 5 man it's the best stat especially since you are running cenarion ward. As well try and line up your flourish for CW or a SoTF'd WG (or both!). If you have solid mastery along with most of your HoT's running and you flourish them your tank is typically safe. You can also switch to prosperity instead of CW this will give you stronger burst healing in 2x 200% RG's but you lose the mastery stack from CW, with your stats I'd probably recommend making the switch. I'm also not sure what race you are but if you can switch to Tauren it is the master race for 5 mans as trash pulls are almost all stunnable by war stomp.

Lastely just learning the dungeons helps immensely, if you know when the spike damage is going to come you can plan better and not have to play reactively as that is not where you want to play from as a druid.