The faction war has no future [Some Spoilers]

[CaptainV]

Lets talk about this for a moment from two points of view, lore, and logical progression of game mechanics literally speaking.

Lore:

For a while now the faction war theme has become somewhat a stale, dying thing, after the events of Stormhiem it is obvious that the -last- embers of that fire are slowly burning out while end game pvp events still exist across the world of small skirmishes.

The conflict between Alliance and Horde cannot last any longer, the continued fight would only end with the Legion winning if any division lasted, which leads me to believe inevitably, the factions must unite.

Many of the groups within those factions are all but ready to work together, and with every class basically ignoring the war itself in favor of a common unity against a single foe, it seems logical to assume, the war will end permanently.

But who will win? If there is a winner?

Taking this Logically: Who started it, who will finish it:

The Horde essentially began this fire with an inavert betrayal from Sylvanas Lieutenant Putress, whom gave Garrosh the fire he needed to start a real war agianst the Alliance. Unfortunatley at the time, Varian had not yet learned the value of diplomacy and peace, and didnt do anyone any favors by running straight into the fire himself, eager to see the Horde burn for its -betrayal- of the Alliance, a reoccuring theme in most storylines.

In Cataclysm, that conflict went Nuculear when Garrosh ended what little truce there was with the Alliance against the Lich King, and expanded purely for conquest sake, while Deathwing was beginning to destroy the world.

The Horde has basically gained massive victories during that time, most that gave it huge swathes of land and territory, but it did one thing wrong that has slowly come to haunt it ever since.

It united the Alliance.

Up until that point, the Alliance was a divided order of individuals that had no real common ground, they were driven by individual politics and problems in local borders, refusing to help each other at the call.

Then the Horde drove them together, and the Dragon that shattered the world, Deathwing, only amplified their unity.

Ever since, the Alliance began to become stronger, and stronger, until when the mists of pandaria conflict escalated, the Horde had a civil war thanks to Garrosh finally going too far.

This civil war fractured a war-unified Horde into two sides that essentially crippled its own faction from within, that faction has constantly suffered ever since, with its conquest driven victories quickly turning into a shattered dream of domination.

Warlords gave the Horde a small comeback, a break from the fight while the Alliance mostly had the brunt of the Iron Horde invasion, but the Horde did send its own troops to Draenor to take what riches it could, and to secure the aid of the AU Orcs.

This has bought it -some- troops back but not enough, the reality is, the events of Stormhiem have now -damned- the Horde, as Sylvanas and the Undead now have no real future because of them with Genn having annihilated the one real way the undead could have continued to -exist- unless she decides to align herself with the Legion.

This concludes that the Horde, is the defeated party, right?

Not necessarily, not -quite- but the Horde -will- change thats for sure.

Jaina is a factor and wild card in all this, and Genn too, the rage of these two chars may boil to a point that the Alliance ends up having its own civil war, enough, that it might cripple it from within. This would be the opportunity, the Horde needed as an equaliser to stand once again against its rival.

However...

The Horde is a tired beaten animal that has suffered quite a few gnashes itself. What it needs is not to end, but to unite, the Alliance will ultimatley become -both- factions, and the Horde will -become- part of the Alliance when the true conflict between the two is entirley over.

This seems all but inevitable, as events are now being set in motion that pull away from the tradition of factions, and step forwards into the creation of the Army of the Light, as Velen's Prophecy foretold in Cataclysm.


Aside from Lore, mechanically, we are moving into that age:

The ideas of faction pride will always exist, but I think its universal to say -most- people are slowly fading away from the purely psycho-patriot view of alliance vs horde mentality with the constant neutral enemy theme. Its a tired old trend that needs to end with a side winning, or both sides changing into one bigger side.

It also offers opportunities that are denied without it, the ability for blizzard to develop new races without fear of faction loyalty, the ability to create guilds without a boundry of side, the ability to raid/dungeon and experience content as one side rather than as two.

However, there could still be ways to make the boundry exist:


The Old would not be thrown out just like that:

Old racial specific content would still be relevent via legacy content, such as old dungeon revisits and raids, being locked to a specific factions old racial loyalties so if your Horde race, you'll still get the Horde story for certain raids.

Same for Alliance.

For older leveling content, the general flow would -still- be about the factions, allowing people to at least experience the story building from chapter to chapter as they eventually become one with their rivals and understand the transition that lead to it.

Over-all, there is no need to remove whats already there, but rather, to add something new to what isnt.

To open the door to a bigger world and stop being afraid to embrace it.


Its time to stop living in the past, and start moving into tommorow. The next real stage is a battle beyond alliance and horde, but a battle of good vs evil, perhaps, the future will have us not just joining together to form the army of light, but perhaps even being tempted by the Legion itself, to create an entirley -new- conflict, between those loyal to the alliance/horde army and those that betray it for the power of the demons and their ilk.

[Phabulous]

If this opens the door to cross-faction play, and by extension I could be a Human Shaman, I'd sign.

[Al Gorefiend]

If this opens the door to cross-faction play, and by extension I could be a Human Shaman, I'd sign.

I want to be a horde gnome demon hunter, that'd be awesome!

[CaptainV]

Honestly, I forsee any future faction conflict if there is any, being something along the lines of the Army of the Light vs those that might betray the factions and join the Legion itself.

With the current theme suggesting The Legion isnt "entirley" evil, some might actually be persuaded to join it in its -greater good- brutal but methodical way of thinking and help it to tyranise and dominate/destroy the galaxy before it can be destroyed by something worse.

Basically, it almost comes across as the Army of the Light being the new Alliance, and the Legion being a new extreme type of Horde.

[ItachiZaku]

lol biased bullshit post.

[micwini]

The Alliance already won in MoP by killing the horde faction leader.
What we see now are skirmishes between the Alliance and an uncoherent horde.
The horde is a mess, which we can see by looking at who is warchief at the moment: The one race that joined the horde initially for protection, is now its strongest force(and even they are weaker than ever before).

[Combatbutler]

The one race that joined the horde initially for protection, is now its strongest force(and even they are weaker than ever before).

Ever since the Val'kyr joined their ranks they have been resurrecting the population of Lordaeron from mass graves.

OT

Yes the faction conflict does not make much sense with so many threats around that neither faction can handle on its own.

[Rend Blackhand]

Blizzard need to do an expansion where there isn't a main big apocalyptic threat to the world. Maybe small raids like centaur in desolace or bloodthirsty ogres in arathi highlands.

Only then will a faction war make sense again

[CParker1987]

The Alliance already won in MoP by killing the horde faction leader.

The Alliance didn't win nor did you kill Garrosh. The Horde had a civil war, as stated above your comment. The Alliance and the sane members of the Horde teamed up and defeated Garrosh. So the victory was not yours alone. Now Garrosh wasn't killed during SoO either. Garrosh was taken into custody and was suppose to be tried for his crimes until he was freed and taken back in time in order to create an alternate timeline. It was during this "alternate timeline" that Garrosh was killed... by Thrall. So in the end, the Horde killed Garrosh.

I don't know where you have been the last 3 or 4 years.

[Deleted]

This actually made me quit wow since i got 110.
I played wow because of horde vs alliance now that i dont even feel like am part of the horde in legion made me look to other games.

I am happy some like 1 big army of light thing, i dont so i move on till this hole plot is either over or a warcraft reboot.

[Kitanii]

This actually made me quit wow since i got 110.

Seriously? Like in super seriously? I don't mean to be a hypocrite, I dinged 110 on the day the game was released, but you are really basing that decision off of the first week of gameplay? Wow.

[huth]

Blizzard need to do an expansion where there isn't a main big apocalyptic threat to the world. Maybe small raids like centaur in desolace or bloodthirsty ogres in arathi highlands.

Only then will a faction war make sense again

Some "relaxation" time would be nice anyway. A story where any defeated threat always leads directly to the next, even bigger, one, is pretty tiring after a while.
I'm still for a South Seas based, exploration focused expansion. You could still have the underlying conflicts of the WarCraft universe involved by our goals being finding out more about the Titans, finding weapons and defenses to use against the Legion/Void Lords and such, but not have any immediate world-ending threat. Maybe thwart some scheming by Azshara and N'Zoth on the side, but nothing on the scale of Legion or Cataclysm.

[Deleted]

"The ONLY hope for the azeroth and the universe is to give ME Bolvar the Lich King YOUR DEAD".

[MatadorMedia]

I would definitely be on board with cross-faction raiding. I raid mainly on Alliance and a couple RL friends are Horde. Or at the very least have an "illusion" or whatever like they implemented in PVP that allows you to queue as the other faction and race-swap temporarily.

[Aurabolt]

I agree, the Faction War is done from a Lore perspective. Skirmishes alone aren't enough as those are expected. It needs to be ramped up like The Wrathgate Incident did for Varian. Something massive...something devastating enough to make make a Faction War relevant. It should also span at least EK and Kalimdor so at the very least it would involve The Undercity, Gilneas, Darnassus and Orgrimmar. Maybe Ironforge and Thunder Bluff, too.

How it could work is this:

Genn enlists the assistence of Tyrande and launches a two-pronged attack in Ashenvale, Northern Barrens, Silverpine Forest and the Hillsbrad Foothills/Alterac. Genn takes Southshore, the Ruins of Alterac, Pyrewood Village and the Hillsbrad Sludge Fields from the Forsaken. Meanwhile, the Night Elves retake Silverwind Refuge and Maestra's Post while also destroying Hellscream's Watch and the Mor'shan Rampart, setting up an outpost at the Barrens/Ashenvale Boarder to cut Orgrimmar off from its main route into Ashenvale. They establish a forward base in the Northern Barrens Northwest of The Crossroads with the help of Dwarves from Ironforge as well.

In retaliation, Sylvanas launches a New Plague attack on Aerie Peak and the recently rebuilt Menethil Harbor. This naturally pissess off Ironforge--mostly the Wildhammer Clan--and they start bombing Tarren Mill and the Sepulcher. The Dwarves send troops and supplies to the retaken and rebuilt Southshore to reinforce their allies in the full-scale conflict to come. The Alliance holds the advantage in terms of terrain thanks to Genn taking and rebuilding Alterac (Alliance Hub). This puts him in favor with the exiled Alterac Nobles, who return to the region from Stormwind to help rebuild their homeland. With that and their Wildhammer allies, they dominate the skies and can launch attacks on any Horde outposts in the region.

The Forsaken hold the advantage of time, of course: They don't have to worry about a silly thing like starving or breathing. Despite losing a good chunk of their territory, it is of little consequence. The plague attack they launched on Menethil Harbor and Aerie Peak bought them some time at the very least. Meanwhile, New Kargath far to the south in the Badlands is fully constructed and reinforced into a powerful Horde stronghold. Concerned, the Alliance takes over Angor Fortress as they deem New Kargath a threat to both Dwarven and Human Interests. The Alliance also reinforces Morgan's Vigil, which is at the Burning Steppes/Redridge Boarder.

On Kalimdor, Gallywix launches an attack on Forest Song and captures it for the Horde. The Alliance Forces who were stationed there manage to cross into Azshara and join up with the Night Elves already there, taking Valormok. The Horde (FINALLY!) reinforces The Crossroads ala Orgrimmar, solidifying its importance to the Horde. The Horde also build a two bridges across The Great Divide for the first time since The Cataclysm, allowing their allies in Thunder Bluff to move overland supplies and troops to the Crossroads. The Horde also takes the destroyed Northwatch Hold and rebuilds it for their own use. In a move sure to anger Jaina Proudmoore, the Horde returns to the Ruins of Theramore and claims it for themselves, turning it into a naval base. This gives the Horde its second dedicated seaport on Kalimdor after Bilgewater Harbor, this time allowing allowing them to contend with Stormwind City if need be (Horde Hub).

The Night Elves still hold the advantage in terms of familiarity with most of the continent. Every root and path is their ally. Despite the incursion, the Night Elves rally their forces in Feralas and push North into Desolace. Tyrande orders Shandris Feathermoon, who commands the Night Elf army in Feralas to march north to Stonetalon Mountain, where the Alliance where the Alliance has mounted a series of victories over the Horde. Shandris splits her army in Desolace and sends some troops to Nijel's point where they construct a road from Desolace to the Northern Barrens and a second road into Stonetalon itself. Meanwhile, the Horde reinforces their positiions in Stonetalon and Desolace. They lure Shadris into a trap on Stonetalon Mountain but thanks to the timely arrival of reinforcements from the road she had secretly built, the Horde are forced to retreat after suffering massive casualties.

In an effort to force the Night Elves to fiight a war on two fronts, the Horde makes landfall on Darkshore--specifically the Ruins of Auberdine. Turns out the Goblins and the Darkspear Trolls set the plan in motion while the Night Elves were busy with the other fronts. Now with a presence so close to the Night Elven Capital, the Horde immediately sets to work cutting their overland supply lines. Realizing the danger, Moira Thassarian agrees to lead Dwarven reinforcements by air to Darkshore to destroy the Horde's new outpost and then push south into Ashenvale. They got the drop on the Horde by using Mages to teleport the Airship to Darkshore. The Alliance inflicts heavy damage but the Horde actually manages to shoot it down. Moira manages to escape unharmed and travels to Darnassus, where she joins up with the Night Elves to plan their next move.

Anduin will have no choice but to approve the Military expansions to support Stormwind's allies and protect their people. He'll esstentially be a figurehead while the other faction leaders take point with the Faction War.

...Sorry, head cannon went a bit out of control. LOL.

[huth]

I agree, the Faction War is done from a Lore perspective. Skirmishes alone aren't enough as those are expected. It needs to be ramped up like The Wrathgate Incident did for Varian. Something massive...something devastating enough to make make a Faction War relevant. It should also span at least EK and Kalimdor so at the very least it would involve The Undercity, Gilneas, Darnassus and Orgrimmar. Maybe Ironforge and Thunder Bluff, too.

I disagree. They should just let it die, as it simply doesn't fit in with their overarching storylines and is a mostly nonsensical distraction. Everybody and their dog is lining up to break down your front door and you have nothing better to do than squabble with your flatmate? Yeah, no. Doesn't make sense.

[Drpizka]

The Alliance already won in MoP by killing the horde faction leader.
What we see now are skirmishes between the Alliance and an uncoherent horde.
The horde is a mess, which we can see by looking at who is warchief at the moment: The one race that joined the horde initially for protection, is now its strongest force(and even they are weaker than ever before).

owwwwwww my goooood! What the hell did I just read?????


They killed the Horde faction leader in MoP ???? Really????? I thought Thrall killed him in WoD

They didn't kill a single thing by themselves, the combined forces of Horde and Alliance managed to bring down Garrosh, and it was Thrall who was about to give the killing blow. But the pandaren asked for a trial so the execution didn't take place.


That was a good joke though mate "The alliance killed the Horde faction leader" xD

[Escariot]

the horde is weak, its leader is weak

all it takes is a faction within alliance to realise this after the legion thing is over, and this time the alliance will attack the horde, to kill all the "bull-men" and the rest of the horde filth

[Eurhetemec]

I know this is going to sound very "My uncle works at Nintendo..." but...

Back in the Classic through WotLK era, I had a housemate who was friends with a lot of Blizzard people (particularly their musicians, oddly enough), and got into every Friends & Family Alpha/Beta - I know he actually did because I saw him playing them in the house! So anyway, he told me that Blizzard had wanted to have raids where the Horde and Alliance worked together from day 1, but had never been able to implement it, but told me it was a long-term goal, and that additionally, in the long-term, Blizzard wanted the Horde and Alliance to end up working together even the same parties etc..

I notice with the Broken Isle Scenario, precisely that happened - ten years later but... it happened. So was he right? Is it still a goal? I dunno, but very interesting to me.

I also notice that the lore and even the EMBLEMS are changing. For example, Dalaran's PvP hall has Genn Greymane's Black & Gold Alliance emblems, not the standard blue and gold ones (and I think the Horde may have similar). So perhaps they have a plan to have the Horde and Alliance work together but for PvP to still exist, with sub-factions of each? I dunno.

On top of this, I heard - and it may be a wacky lie or never have left Beta, so please tell me if so, that Pandarians speaking Panda and Demon Hunters speaking Demonic can understand each other cross-faction.

[Aurabolt]

I disagree. They should just let it die, as it simply doesn't fit in with their overarching storylines and is a mostly nonsensical distraction. Everybody and their dog is lining up to break down your front door and you have nothing better to do than squabble with your flatmate? Yeah, no. Doesn't make sense.

I'm the wrong person to direct that at. Take it up with Blizzard, which insists on the whole "two-factions who don't like each other" system. LOL.