Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[shaunika123]

I see no mentions of Slice and Dice. So I guess that's not even worth taking?

well in addition to it being flat out worse than RtB it also makes you lose MfD

[Kaigami]

What I posted works fine for Pandemic (bar is green if it's outside of Pandemic range, red if it is in Pandemic range) but obviously does not have the check for 2 or more buffs.



This is what my RTB WAs look like combined (buffs that are active appear below the bar) http://i.imgur.com/5B7bndk.png

Do you have the WA for your icons as well? That'd be awesome

[Master Guns]

I really hope I am not the only one who hates rtb. I get 10 one buff rolls in a row on almost every boss and most times during trash. I rarely ever use run through because I'm spending all my combo points on re rolls. This may be fun for some but it's a garbage mechanic and frustrating as hell to get my first 2 buff roll when the boss is at 10% hp.

[Kaigami]

Oh, also, did the disguise you get from ambush/pickpocket with glyph always stay, then go away when mounted, then come back again after dismounting?

whilst world questing im basically permanently in a silly humanoid disguise

[lolpve]

I really hope I am not the only one who hates rtb. I get 10 one buff rolls in a row on almost every boss and most times during trash. I rarely ever use run through because I'm spending all my combo points on re rolls. This may be fun for some but it's a garbage mechanic and frustrating as hell to get my first 2 buff roll when the boss is at 10% hp.

I came to the same realisation a few weeks ago and decided that spending the next 2 years playing casino wasn't my idea of fun.

[ymirsson]

I really hope I am not the only one who hates rtb. I get 10 one buff rolls in a row on almost every boss and most times during trash. I rarely ever use run through because I'm spending all my combo points on re rolls. This may be fun for some but it's a garbage mechanic and frustrating as hell to get my first 2 buff roll when the boss is at 10% hp.

Hyperbole does not factor into simulations.

[Master Guns]

Except it's not hyperbole. But nice try.

So, you're denying that this happens? Because it does. Very few times do I ever roll 6 buffs, probably once every 3-4 dungeons. And yes, I get 9-10 one buff rolls before the boss is dead, and by the time I get decent, my DPS window has closed.

It's called rng. But you saying that it can't happen just makes you look ignorant.

[Deleted]

Except it's not hyperbole. But nice try.

So, you're denying that this happens? Because it does. Very few times do I ever roll 6 buffs, probably once every 3-4 dungeons. And yes, I get 9-10 one buff rolls before the boss is dead, and by the time I get decent, my DPS window has closed.

It's called rng. But you saying that it can't happen just makes you look ignorant.

I am equally as pissed off as you with roll the bones, however after playing around with a target dummy today we have two options:

835 ilvl:
170-270k single target dps with roll the bones (215k average) & very good AOE
OR
200-210k single target dps with slice & dice (205k average) & good AOE

It feels sooo much nicer using slice & dice and not having to look at my buff bar every two seconds, but we are going to suffer on trash.

[Deleted]

I managed to get two back-to-back 6 buff procs on King Deepbeard the other day. I ended on 352k dps at 839 ilvl, with 822 Dreadblades. FeelsGoodMan

[elfporn]

Except it's not hyperbole. But nice try.

So, you're denying that this happens? Because it does. Very few times do I ever roll 6 buffs, probably once every 3-4 dungeons. And yes, I get 9-10 one buff rolls before the boss is dead, and by the time I get decent, my DPS window has closed.

It's called rng. But you saying that it can't happen just makes you look ignorant.

9-10 one-buff rolls is almost as rare as 6-procs. You're grossly exaggerating. And IF you're not, then you're not using your buffs wisely. broadsides, JR, and BT will speed up your rotation, SiW and TB should be used with CotD/AR.

If you're going through a dry period where all you are doing is rerolling 9-10 times, it is your fault and not the fault of the ability design.

RNG is random, sure, but what you're describing has a very very low chance of happening.

[Deleted]

9-10 one-buff rolls is almost as rare as 6-procs. You're grossly exaggerating. And IF you're not, then you're not using your buffs wisely. broadsides, JR, and BT will speed up your rotation, SiW and TB should be used with CotD/AR.

If you're going through a dry period where all you are doing is rerolling 9-10 times, it is your fault and not the fault of the ability design.

RNG is random, sure, but what you're describing has a very very low chance of happening.

Rerolling to try to get true bearing or shark infested waters while using AR & CoTD seems silly, you are just wasting damage output. I have found that it works better to just deal with whatever buff you have during that time and start fishing for 2+ afterwards. So I don't see how saying 'SiW and TB be used with CoTD/AR' is going to help.

Also, how is saying 'broadsides, JR, and BT will speed up your rotation' going to help? The simulated numbers say it is best to re-roll to fish for 2+ buffs, if doesn't matter if you keep getting JR over and over again (for example).

Picture this scenario:

MfD -> RtB > CotD+AR+ghostly strike, spam run through until CoTD runs out, then fish for 2+ buffs if you haven't got them during your intial roll. First attempt at a roll: 1 buff, 2nd attempt: 1 buff, 3rd attempt: 1 buff... Ok this is shitty, *Pops thistle tea*, builds to 5-6 CP, rolls again: 1 buff, etc. etc.

How is that scenario user error? It happens to me often and my dps plummets.

[wombats23]

explain to me how broadsides, grand melee, jolly roger, or buried treasure increases your dps during your CDs?

broadsides has 0 effect during CotDB
grand melee only impacts your auto attack damage
jolly roger does have an impact, since you'll get the SS slash more often, but it has 0 impact on CP generation, which is the significant part of your CDs
buried treasure is for the most part made meaningless by AR (if you get 0 PS procs during your CDs, buried treasure might make it so sneak in an extra SS)

people need to get over this "always reroll for 2" bullshit and start thinking about how spells work in tandem with one another. i'm not saying "always reroll for 2" is a bad way of looking at things, but it's far more important to realize that outlaw is (if only just slightly) deeper than that.

a rule of thumb is there to guide the masses who are too lazy to think. don't be a sheep.

[Deleted]

explain to me how broadsides, grand melee, jolly roger, or buried treasure increases your dps during your CDs?

broadsides has 0 effect during CotDB
grand melee only impacts your auto attack damage
jolly roger does have an impact, since you'll get the SS slash more often, but it has 0 impact on CP generation, which is the significant part of your CDs
buried treasure is for the most part made meaningless by AR (if you get 0 PS procs during your CDs, buried treasure might make it so sneak in an extra SS)

people need to get over this "always reroll for 2" bullshit and start thinking about how spells work in tandem with one another. i'm not saying "always reroll for 2" is a bad way of looking at things, but it's far more important to realize that outlaw is (if only just slightly) deeper than that.

a rule of thumb is there to guide the masses who are too lazy to think. don't be a sheep.

Obviously those 4 buffs aren't going to increase your DPS during cooldowns, but that is 4 OUT OF 6 BUFFS. So you have a 33% chance to get the buff you want during CoTD & AR. Is re-rolling roughly 3 times worth losing out on 3 run throughs?

[Master Guns]

9-10 one-buff rolls is almost as rare as 6-procs. You're grossly exaggerating. And IF you're not, then you're not using your buffs wisely. broadsides, JR, and BT will speed up your rotation, SiW and TB should be used with CotD/AR.

If you're going through a dry period where all you are doing is rerolling 9-10 times, it is your fault and not the fault of the ability design.

RNG is random, sure, but what you're describing has a very very low chance of happening.

Yeah..no. It's best to roll for 2 buffs, period. Sims confirm this.

Also, you can't "dispute" what I'm saying, because it happened to me, not you. And it happens all the time. I truly do not care if you believe that or not.

[elfporn]

Rerolling to try to get true bearing or shark infested waters while using AR & CoTD seems silly, you are just wasting damage output. I have found that it works better to just deal with whatever buff you have during that time and start fishing for 2+ afterwards. So I don't see how saying 'SiW and TB be used with CoTD/AR' is going to help.

Also, how is saying 'broadsides, JR, and BT will speed up your rotation' going to help? The simulated numbers say it is best to re-roll to fish for 2+ buffs, if doesn't matter if you keep getting JR over and over again (for example).

Picture this scenario:

MfD -> RtB > CotD+AR+ghostly strike, spam run through until CoTD runs out, then fish for 2+ buffs if you haven't got them during your intial roll. First attempt at a roll: 1 buff, 2nd attempt: 1 buff, 3rd attempt: 1 buff... Ok this is shitty, *Pops thistle tea*, builds to 5-6 CP, rolls again: 1 buff, etc. etc.

How is that scenario user error? It happens to me often and my dps plummets.

you've misconstrued what i posted.

I wasn't elaborating on the correct use of RTB during a raid boss fight.

That dude is complaining because he's trying to play through dungeons rerolling constantly like he's fighting a raid boss.

Liberal use of MfD and knowing which buffs will help you when is the way to go through dungeons, not mindlessly sticking to the 2+ rule.

[Deleted]

Ok, I mis-interpreted what you said. Yeah, I agree that fishing for 2+ on trash is a bad move.

[elfporn]

Yeah..no. It's best to roll for 2 buffs, period. Sims confirm this.

Also, you can't "dispute" what I'm saying, because it happened to me, not you. And it happens all the time. I truly do not care if you believe that or not.

Sim's are not ran for 1-2minute dungeon boss fights, or for dungeon trash. The sims are ran specifically for raid bosses. These are completely different situations. Constant rerolling during a fight that lasts as long as 2 full dura rolls is not the way to play smart.

And yes, i dispute what you're saying, i have 3 days 17 hours /played at 110 as of today and there was one out of thousands of rtb rolls where i re-rolled more than 5 times(using CotDb) to get what i wanted.

9-10 rerolls is A LOT, that's sitting there for more than a minute just re-rolling. If you're doing that, you're doing it wrong, completely and utterly wrong.

And if say you're rerolling 9-10 times all the time with no 2+ buffs, you're also wrong, it's statistically very very very unlikely that the 36% chance to get 2+ buffs does not happen within 10 casts.

And finally, Do not play in dungeons like you would play during a raid boss, the sims apply loosely, and if your target is going to die in 60sec you don't waste that entire time rerolling for 2+.

[wombats23]

Obviously those 4 buffs aren't going to increase your DPS during cooldowns, but that is 4 OUT OF 6 BUFFS. So you have a 33% chance to get the buff you want during CoTD & AR. Is re-rolling roughly 3 times worth losing out on 3 run throughs?

what difference is there using RT during AR+CotDB and outside of it?

edit: alternatively, why is rerolling during your CDs necessarily bad? there has to be some explicit reason why rerolling during CDs is a worse move than just using more RTs.

that is, if RT does the same damage during CDs as well as outside CDs, and rerolling for 2 is optimal, why is rerolling for 2 during CDs wrong?

obviously in scenarios where you need the burst, yes, RT should be used. but if you're trying to figure out the long run optimal move, how is using RT over rerolling for 2+ suddenly better?

[Demeia]

And finally, Do not play in dungeons like you would play during a raid boss, the sims apply loosely, and if your target is going to die in 60sec you don't waste that entire time rerolling for 2+.

I'm not disputing any of your point, really, Elf, I just find that fishing for 2+ feels worth it on trash since you tend to chain packs/bosses together on 5m. But this is pure feeling on my part not based on any statistical evidence.

[elfporn]

I'm not disputing any of your point, really, Elf, I just find that fishing for 2+ feels worth it on trash since you tend to chain packs/bosses together on 5m. But this is pure feeling on my part not based on any statistical evidence.

it is, but through liberal use of MfD instead of build/spend on rtb. I generally fish for broadsides over everything else in dungeons, even keeping single procs