I just got kicked from a grp , shadow is shit

[Video Games]

Becausw it matters A LOT what fight it is. Was it high movement? What specs did you out dps? Etc. If the boss allows me to stand still a lot, then yea, dps is great. But thats rare, few examples of bosses that screw us over are Odyn, Wrath of Azshara, the sea giant before that. There are others, but you probably get the point.

The only fight I have trouble with is oden, the dragon in dht and cordana. Everything else I am usually #1 at around 180-220k if not 2. Wrath I just used s2m because fuck it 9m+ more damage than #2.

Cant tell if sarcasm or not. I believe the majority on forums are better than the average player, they tend to care more about learning the class properly.

It's not because better than average on wow isn't saying much. I'm not saying I'm god's gift to wow, but if I did as much research as I did and still performed bad as any class, that is a skill issue.

[zenkai]

Cant tell if sarcasm or not. I believe the majority on forums are better than the average player, they tend to care more about learning the class properly.

^-- this Most terrible players don't even visit forums to learn how to play better. They probably just go to Noxxic and/or mash their face on the keyboard.

[Christonya]

Not going to lie. Sounds like you're playing the wrong class. Maybe you should try mage.

Also, Spriest dps is fine, and yeah, you should be using voidform on trash, 90% of the dungeon is trash. You don't however want to blow your big CDs or any thing on the pack before the boss.

[Djriff]

If we can't keep discussion civil i'll have to close the thread. I've already had to hand out 2 infractions, I would like to not have to hand out anymore.

[Woop Woop]

Not going to lie. Sounds like you're playing the wrong class. Maybe you should try mage.

Also, Spriest dps is fine, and yeah, you should be using voidform on trash, 90% of the dungeon is trash. You don't however want to blow your big CDs or any thing on the pack before the boss.

Where is our aoe then? And dont say 'multidot'..ever tried multidotting 10+ targets? NOT fun.

[Arbiter]

At the end of the day, do the mobs go down?

Too many people go overboard on needing to have the best dps in all situations. Meters work best on an individual basis to help yourself improve, and in raid situations where the raid leader needs to provide guidance.

Player attitudes need to change more than anything else.

Honestly, there is a difference between under performing and being lazy though.

If I'm in a group and someone is under performing then I'm usually fine. People have to learn and I understand that. Even help where I can.

However, I'm not against kicking someone just because they refuse to use important mechanics to their class because they don't feel like it. It's not like people would keep me around if I'm tanking or healing a dungeon and people keep dying because I didn't see the need to use my abilities on trash. At the end of the day it's selfish and it's holding every one else back. I have things to do inside and outside of the game and I don't really like people holding me back from it because they want to be lazy.

And yes, the meters do a pretty good job at telling me if you're not even putting an effort. I'm not even talking about "oh you didn't use Shadowfiend that last trash pull I'm going to kick you". More of "You've used no other ability but Mind Sear on every tiny trash pull since we've got in here and because of that you're not even doing third of the second to last dps so I need to remove you because the other 4 people in this dungeon would like to be able to finish sooner than later". I'd probably even ask if it's intentional first, but if someone had the nerve to say something like "Why the hell would I use Voidform on trash"..then yea instant boot.

I don't think that's unreasonable. It's an MMO and people need to learn to understand that it's not just your time you're wasting on the game when you group with others.

A guy decided to afk in a dungeon I was tanking yesterday for the trash and didn't even say anything. Healer vote kicked him so the friends made the excuse that he went to go eat. Couldn't even kick him because the other 2 dps in the group were his friends so it was just me and the healer. Had an argument about it and they used the same argument as you "stuff is dying so stop complaining just because you get an instant queue". I had food sitting in front of me as well, but the guy queuing just to afk added quite a bit extra time to the dungeon at everyone else's expense. Stuff is dying, but laziness is far from ok.

[Vampiregenesis]

Hm i saw an improvement , i played another dungeon as shadow and even though i was below our mt who was a pala , i wasnt far of from the others and sustained around 95k and i toped in one boss aswell and i had shadow crash which id idnt use much at all , if i had bender or pi i would easily compete witn them at single target. I dont have a good aoe rotation but i think i have improved a lot my st rotation even when im forced to move.

St shadow is enjoyable thats the main reason i leveled this char , i like ranged dps , i like the rotation tbh but multidoting is really boring. The shitier part is that i have instant queues as holy and 45+min as shadow.

[l33t]

At the end of the day, do the mobs go down?

Too many people go overboard on needing to have the best dps in all situations. Meters work best on an individual basis to help yourself improve, and in raid situations where the raid leader needs to provide guidance.

Player attitudes need to change more than anything else.

I don't think bad spec design is player's fault. Players tend to choose easy ways out. On the other side, players do not have to take a burden of carrying a bad worthless spec on their shoulders. Yes, mobs are slowly dying, but there is a reason why the role is called "DAMAGE DEALER". I can hardly call somebody a "DAMAGE DEALER" when he fails to outdps a freaking tank in any possible scenario. Not to mention obvious things, like, more dps => less fight time => less damage dealt to a party => less struggle for a healer => overall more pleasant experience for everybody.

What really has to change is developers' attitude towards dps specs of so-called "hybrid" classes. We shouldn't suffer because pures have to feel good about themselves. That's stupid, that's unfair and that's clearly an absolutely idiotic game design.

Also: us and ele shamans, we really must be allowed to rape meters for at least one expansion in a row, because we deserve it for all these years of unfairness.

[Christonya]

Where is our aoe then? And dont say 'multidot'..ever tried multidotting 10+ targets? NOT fun.

I enjoy it. It's why I play dot specs. Again, if you don't then perhaps you're playing the wrong class. Also mind sear is a spell, but you'd probably want to apply pain to every thing first at the very least

[Deleted]

As I was close to 110 I've started collecting holy gear, and ended up with 4% haste at 110. It was horrible, not damage to speak of. You really need at least ~5k to feel comfortable.

[KaPe]

What really has to change is developers' attitude towards dps specs of so-called "hybrid" classes. We shouldn't suffer because pures have to feel good about themselves. That's stupid, that's unfair and that's clearly an absolutely idiotic game design.

Also: us and ele shamans, we really must be allowed to rape meters for at least one expansion in a row, because we deserve it for all these years of unfairness.

This has nothing to do with hybrids. You don't need to look much further than Windwalkers, Demon Hunters or Warlocks. It's simply Blizzard ignoring AOE balance once again - even though this is the first expansion where dungeons, and thus trash packs, are supposed to matter. Obviously, this means much more work for them, but some issues are glaringly obvious. It's just a matter of them deciding if DH/WW aoe damage is what we're all supposed to be doing and buffing everyone else - or the opposite and thus nerfing the outliers.

Or maybe saying "fuck it, let's replace everyone AOE with Mind Sear".

I enjoy it. It's why I play dot specs. Again, if you don't then perhaps you're playing the wrong class. Also mind sear is a spell, but you'd probably want to apply pain to every thing first at the very least

By the time you dot so many mobs, other classes will already do millions hitpoints worth of damage. You'll never catch up, unless you have absurd Mass Hysteria stacks... but that means you're using S2M, so spaming dots will probably kill you.

Also, Mind Sear is probably the worst AOE spell in the game. Anyone claiming otherwise should try using it to kill random 300k spiderlings/other swarming trash. It's disgusting how such weak monsters can actually present a threat to Shadow, while everyone else just cleaves them down without effort. Even Shadowcrash doesn't one shot them without crits.

[Rumex]

People need to relax about being bad at AOE. I dont care, might just cast a mind bomb and feel i helped the healer/grp or whatever. Shadow really shines on 3+ target with some fair amount of hp and boss fights. Im pretty sure shadow with StM is one of the highest single target specs out there. Blizz just need to fix StM, make it a 3 min cd or something!

I have played alot since release and i have actually pugged almost all my hc/mythic runs and no one have ever complained about my dmg being a bit low on aoe because i usually dominate on the boss fights, and it is the boss fights that matters, atleast to me. I think we will be fine with better gear and more haste and the legendary wrists look pretty insane, specially with StM!

But i can see the problems we got right now. We dont really contribute with anything aside from descent dps on boss fights and some control on adds, where other players got the whole package with good aoe, descent single target, cr/bl. Shadow really need something we can bring to the boss figths, not only some minor healing and descent single target. Im at 845 ilvl now and most of the times i get declined to mythic grps looking for 835+ players, even tho i know i will perform great, but a 835 unholy dk will probably bring more to the grp overall, and that can be a bit frustrating tbh.

[GT4]

People need to relax about being bad at AOE. I dont care, might just cast a mind bomb and feel i helped the healer/grp or whatever. Shadow really shines on 3+ target with some fair amount of hp and boss fights. Im pretty sure shadow with StM is one of the highest single target specs out there. Blizz just need to fix StM, make it a 3 min cd or something!

I have played alot since release and i have actually pugged almost all my hc/mythic runs and no one have ever complained about my dmg being a bit low on aoe because i usually dominate on the boss fights, and it is the boss fights that matters, atleast to me. I think we will be fine with better gear and more haste and the legendary wrists look pretty insane, specially with StM!

Other classes easily dish out the same single target (boss DPS) without SP ramp-up time, without relying on a oftentimes unusable mechanic such as S2M and without being shit at everything else in the game.

That argument really makes no sense unless Shadow is #1 single target DPS which it certainly isn't now (feral, arms, outlaw all perform significantly better) and probably won't even be in the future because other classes' stronger legendaries make up for Shadow's better secondary stat scaling.

[Garkanh]

i've been in a mythic dungeon with a shadow priest, where the holy paladin almost out dps'd him... the shadow was at like 140k dps, with the holy paladin at 130k...

[Woop Woop]

I enjoy it. It's why I play dot specs. Again, if you don't then perhaps you're playing the wrong class. Also mind sear is a spell, but you'd probably want to apply pain to every thing first at the very least

I also enjoy it, mostly. But if you are alone vs 10 minor mobs in the world, there is little you can do to burst them down. I dont think its too much to ask for a decent aoe. Hell, shorter cd on shadow crash would even go a long way...

[SirreASDF]

Oh if it would be just one aspect.

Care to elaborate on the other aspects? I guess one could argue that it's somewhat hard in 2s as well.. But other than that, I've had no issues?

If they do well in raids they will do even better on dungeon bosses, since you will spend a much higher proportion of your time within your cooldowns than during a raid encounter. And while raids obviously aren't out yet, they were doing well on beta and the sims look good so that seems to be the case.

If you're arguing that Shadow needs an AE buff for short lived targets, well, maybe they do. Problem is that will make them overpowered on longer-lived add fights where they can both multidot and have a then-strong AE like Sear going.

Not necesarily, if the boss dies before you have time for any kind of build-up. But I do see your point, at least regarding the aoe buff. I personally am somewhat fine with being trash on dungeon trash.. If it weren't for the risk of getting kicked. And I would never ever even dare try to attempt mythic dungeons with pick-up groups as shadow, because I'd feel like I would be underperforming. Which is where my issue comes in.

[hyperhyve]

ITT: We use capslock RANDOMLY to create emphasis on irrelevant THINGS.

I really like having one of our SHADOWPRIESTS with me in dungeons. Yeah, they aren't pulling monk/DH numbers on trash pulls, but they OBLITERATE the bosses (300 - 400k dps).
Just keep practicing and gearing up. Find a guild that will take you to dungeons. It's easy.
But if you really think that "ITS SHIT", you "HATE MULTIDOTING" and "HATE BEING IN SHADOWFORM ALLTHETIME", maybe just gtfo and reroll ret paladin. Seriously, these posts..

[Dawnrage]

ITT: We use capslock RANDOMLY to create emphasis on irrelevant THINGS.

I really like having one of our SHADOWPRIESTS with me in dungeons. Yeah, they aren't pulling monk/DH numbers on trash pulls, but they OBLITERATE the bosses (300 - 400k dps).
Just keep practicing and gearing up. Find a guild that will take you to dungeons. It's easy.
But if you really think that "ITS SHIT", you "HATE MULTIDOTING" and "HATE BEING IN SHADOWFORM ALLTHETIME", maybe just gtfo and reroll ret paladin. Seriously, these posts..

Please don't come in here and talk shit when you don't play an spriest. 300k on bosses (I would like to see an spriest do 400k that isn't the last fight of black rook hold) is only possible with heroism or some boss increase damage taken mechanic. We do good single but a lot of classes do as well, especially for the duration of fights in heroic and mythic being about 1 min - 1 min 30 secs. Classes with prominent cooldowns do good single target, and specs like outlaw rogues etc straight murder us on single target most of the time.

Trash is also a good 80% of the dungeon, so saying that you want an spriest because he's doing maybe 10k more than the average evenly geared dps on single target while 50-150k less damage on trash makes no sense. If your spriest is competing on trash, it's because the other DPS are incompetent, undergeared, or playing some shitty spec like frost mage. It's not a knock against anyone, but it's true. AoE for every class is not a complex rotation to execute (except for maybe shadow that has to multidot), most classes simply press one button and go ham.

Seriously, go level some random alt and look at the damage difference you do at 110. I have two alts at 110 who are far undergeared compared to my priest main who is 840 and their aoe is better than my spriest. They do less single target of course but they are also undergeared, and I don't feel their single target is horrible, compared to shadow with decent single target and horrible aoe.

Just face it, we are a raiding spec. It makes sense too, look at our kit and talents. Surrender to madness, mass hysteria etc, these are all thing that are designed with ramp up time in mind. If we were given anything else, it would just make us far too strong in too many situations. I'm not saying it's ok, but that's the fact of the matter and isn't going to change unless S2M and mass hysteria get nerfed to hell or changed.

[l33t]

ITT: We use capslock RANDOMLY to create emphasis on irrelevant THINGS.

I really like having one of our SHADOWPRIESTS with me in dungeons. Yeah, they aren't pulling monk/DH numbers on trash pulls, but they OBLITERATE the bosses (300 - 400k dps).
Just keep practicing and gearing up. Find a guild that will take you to dungeons. It's easy.
But if you really think that "ITS SHIT", you "HATE MULTIDOTING" and "HATE BEING IN SHADOWFORM ALLTHETIME", maybe just gtfo and reroll ret paladin. Seriously, these posts..

Or, maybe, instead of stupid trolling and not contributing anything useful to a thread, try to think why shadow priest players reroll in droves. Why shadow priests are beingh kicked from pug groups. Why shadow priests are being denied groups. Can you do that, or your intellectual ceiling is limited with throwing useless insults?

[Woop Woop]

ITT: We use capslock RANDOMLY to create emphasis on irrelevant THINGS.

I really like having one of our SHADOWPRIESTS with me in dungeons. Yeah, they aren't pulling monk/DH numbers on trash pulls, but they OBLITERATE the bosses (300 - 400k dps).
Just keep practicing and gearing up. Find a guild that will take you to dungeons. It's easy.
But if you really think that "ITS SHIT", you "HATE MULTIDOTING" and "HATE BEING IN SHADOWFORM ALLTHETIME", maybe just gtfo and reroll ret paladin. Seriously, these posts..

Oh, we do 300-400k dps on bosses without StM? Please educate me as to how to do that, master priest.