Feral ST DPS

[mookiiy]

Is/Will feral be the highest single target dps in raids/dungons mythic?
Or will anything beat it(is already beating it)?

[Thorim]

Is/Will feral be the highest single target dps in raids/dungons mythic?
Or will anything beat it(is already beating it)?

With full BIS and a perfect rotation, it is simming top. There will be no fights in any of the raids that we know of which will be purely extended single target fights though, so....we will be beaten by everyone else with actually good AOE.

[mookiiy]

Yeah but i'm not talking about AOE, i'm asking strictly single target. But i will take that as a yes, feral does have the highest ST in the game.

[Goron24]

Yeah but i'm not talking about AOE, i'm asking strictly single target. But i will take that as a yes, feral does have the highest ST in the game.

Assuming 0 movement and 100% up time. Which in most raids is not the case

[Eidoh]

Nope, I must say Rogue beat us by far, and maybe other classes too. The Simcraft report is not 100% reliable, you have to notice that.
I hope this report will not make feral nerfed. I think this would be a huge mistake.
Yes Feral have a important potential dps on ST, but it depends on too much and various situation, and on these cases, rogue is above.

[mookiiy]

So what reason would there be to bring a feral instead of a rogue. Feral has no burst at all anymore gets beaten by rogue in that. According to you rogue has better ST dps than feral. So i just wasted my own/guilds time leveling a feral instead of rogue (i main both)

Edit: Also what else beats it in ST dps? arms?

[Eidoh]

drood have combat rez, can tank few seconds ect ... those little differences can bring a drood (feral) to a raid roster.
And I haven't said that Feral was bad, just, it can be easily beaten by a rogue and is not the master dps on ST.
all of these are my thought, your choice to follow or not.
I prefer feral gameplay than rogue one, that is my personal opinion. For a guild which is not under top 50 world, no need to worry about dps optimisation in this advanced way tho. Just have fun

[renji1337]

With full BIS and a perfect rotation, it is simming top. There will be no fights in any of the raids that we know of which will be purely extended single target fights though, so....we will be beaten by everyone else with actually good AOE.

Do people forget that feral is top tier not only on ST but on 2-3 target cleave? There's a reasons ferals did so well in the beta raid testing q.q. It only suffers in the area of AoE.

Have you even looked at the fights? o_o Feral is a bleed based class and in alot of emerald nightmare, you WILL be able to have multiple bleeds fully roll on cleave. (IIRC alot of the druids were using SOTF to manage 2-3rips going at once, it's worse ST, but amazing 2-3 target cleave).

Feral can fully run away from a monster/boss for over 10seconds because of how long there bleeds are, and how long they wait pooling for energy, they do quite well in a lot of emerald nightmare because of this. They mainly just suffer in M+

Top tier guilds like from scratch even have a feral druid this raid tier.

[SB360]

Im pulling really nice ST dps on my feral in dungeons. Around 810 ilvl, doing better than some with 825+. Excited to see how it is in raids. AoE is lacking for me though.

[teddabear]

So what reason would there be to bring a feral instead of a rogue. Feral has no burst at all anymore gets beaten by rogue in that. According to you rogue has better ST dps than feral. So i just wasted my own/guilds time leveling a feral instead of rogue (i main both)

There is none. Rogue has the highest utility in the game and Feral has the lowest.

[renji1337]

There is none. Rogue has the highest utility in the game and Feral has the lowest.

Why are two of the top guilds using feral druids this tier then while they are racing?

I'll give you a hint, one of them is from scratch.

Druids do bring BRez, and high innate self healing, while rogues have a better tool-kit for not getting hit, there tool-kit still almost 100% of the time ends up being used as defense, which is the same with ferals.

As it stands. I judge Melee DPS in this way.

1. Competitive single target dmg / output on priority adds (tldr ST and 2-3 target cleave, feral does this well)
2. Competitive AoE dmg (feral does not do this well)
3. Immunities/CD's/Utility (Survival Instincts last a long time once you have AP in it, high inherent self-healing, interrupts, BRez, Stun)

Ultimately, feral has better ST dps, rogue has better AoE DPS, and however, rogues kit (Evasion, etc) is very strong, but feral will have 9 second survival instinct with 2 charges and a BRez, which is not bad at all.

You are weighing evasion and cloak vs BRez and Survival instinct, and stampeding roar(very important CD in raids), and in a raid comp there is a place for both of these

Feral also has the niche ability to go into bear form and basically not take any damage + have 2.8m HP.

[teddabear]

When the first tier race is done I expect Feral's to be badly outnumbered. A lot will depend on how and when the talent tree is rebalanced. Right now it is badly unbalanced.

I do not consider Feral competitive at priority target damage with the current talent tree. That could be mitigated if Feral's priority target talents were more competitive.

The feral version of stampeding roar is too small, only 6% the size of the regular version.

Also the first tier mostly avoids Feral's bigger weaknesses but I think that is very unlikely to continue in the next 2 tiers.

[renji1337]

When the first tier race is done I expect Feral's to be badly outnumbered. A lot will depend on how and when the talent tree is rebalanced. Right now it is badly unbalanced.

I do not consider Feral competitive at priority target damage with the current talent tree. That could be mitigated if Feral's priority target talents were more competitive.

The feral version of stampeding roar is too small, only 6% the size of the regular version.

Also the first tier mostly avoids Feral's bigger weaknesses but I think that is very unlikely to continue in the next 2 tiers.

Feral did decently during the Nighthold testing too. We don't have a guardian druid in our raid comp, so stampeding roar is required from someone. It is 15 yards, which is still useful. Speculating on raid tiers after nighthold is pointless, we don't even know if we will have another one after it.

I am still confused by what you mean as "badly unbalanced". We are amazing at ST and 2-3 target cleave. We can't also be amazing at AOE too, otherwise we would need ST and cleave nerfs. We have ramp-up time, and in all mythic fights there is enough time to ramp-up

Ultimate we have

Top tier ST, Near Bottom tier AoE (there are worse AoE classes though), decent burst AoE with shadow thrash/BRS if needed. We have good mobility, and we do have more utility then some classes do, and less then others.

Target switching sucks ONLY because we need ramp-up time, which is readily available in heroic progression and mythic progression (this is why ferals did decently in emerald nightmare and nighthold)

Feral is a competitive class this expansion for raids, just not competitive for M+ (you'll still get M10 done easily, which is all that matters), It is however hard to play.

There's alot of balance tuning that I believe will be coming, and more than likely other classes will be tuned down (DH AoE, WW AoE)

[Backstabjoe]

I've been wondering which talents do u use for ST? Incarnation+Blood Scent or Savage Roar+Lunar Inspiration?

[mookiiy]

Feral did decently during the Nighthold testing too. We don't have a guardian druid in our raid comp, so stampeding roar is required from someone. It is 15 yards, which is still useful. Speculating on raid tiers after nighthold is pointless, we don't even know if we will have another one after it.

I am still confused by what you mean as "badly unbalanced". We are amazing at ST and 2-3 target cleave. We can't also be amazing at AOE too, otherwise we would need ST and cleave nerfs. We have ramp-up time, and in all mythic fights there is enough time to ramp-up

Ultimate we have

Top tier ST, Near Bottom tier AoE (there are worse AoE classes though), decent burst AoE with shadow thrash/BRS if needed. We have good mobility, and we do have more utility then some classes do, and less then others.

Target switching sucks ONLY because we need ramp-up time, which is readily available in heroic progression and mythic progression (this is why ferals did decently in emerald nightmare and nighthold)

Feral is a competitive class this expansion for raids, just not competitive for M+ (you'll still get M10 done easily, which is all that matters), It is however hard to play.

There's alot of balance tuning that I believe will be coming, and more than likely other classes will be tuned down (DH AoE, WW AoE)

That's what i thought, i've seen Feral topping pure boss dps in pretty much every mythic, and for raids the fight will last much longer which favours the feral even more for ST. So the other guy saying rogue outclasses it in ST is full of it.

Thank you for clarifying it!

- - - Updated - - -

I've been wondering which talents do u use for ST? Incarnation+Blood Scent or Savage Roar+Lunar Inspiration?

Savage Roar+Lunar Inspiration makes the most sense, not 100% sure though.

[renji1337]

That's what i thought, i've seen Feral topping pure boss dps in pretty much every mythic, and for raids the fight will last much longer which favours the feral even more for ST. So the other guy saying rogue outclasses it in ST is full of it.

Thank you for clarifying it!

- - - Updated - - -



Savage Roar+Lunar Inspiration makes the most sense, not 100% sure though.

It's a trade really, a lot of players prefer to have huge AoE DPS and okayish-decent ST, we are just the reverse

Rogues do decent ST, and great AOE, and there utility is good, but basically, everything has a role. It is very rare that a class can do absolutely everything, and when it does, it gets nerfed.

I'm just basing my feral facts off of talks with high end players and logs and videos from the beta really, and my own experiences.\

You will see a lot of players sometimes be turned off by feral druids because it is a hard class to play, and this means that you will see plenty of bad pug ferals xD

[mookiiy]

It's a trade really, a lot of players prefer to have huge AoE DPS and okayish-decent ST, we are just the reverse

Rogues do decent ST, and great AOE, and there utility is good, but basically, everything has a role. It is very rare that a class can do absolutely everything, and when it does, it gets nerfed.

I'm just basing my feral facts off of talks with high end players and logs and videos from the beta really, and my own experiences.\

You will see a lot of players sometimes be turned off by feral druids because it is a hard class to play, and this means that you will see plenty of bad pug ferals xD

Are we ahead of arms in ST? cause like you said classes shouldn't have the best of both worlds, and i think arms does well in both

[renji1337]

Are we ahead of arms in ST? cause like you said classes shouldn't have the best of both worlds, and i think arms does well in both

Arms sometimes sims #1 ST and sometimes we sim #1 ST. They've been flopping back and forth. It's only ever small dps differences of 3-5k.

Warriors are an enigma this expac though, arms and prot seem amazingly strong.

I have yet to play with an arms warrior to personally see them in action though

[mookiiy]

Arms sometimes sims #1 ST and sometimes we sim #1 ST. They've been flopping back and forth. It's only ever small dps differences of 3-5k.

Warriors are an enigma this expac though, arms and prot seem amazingly strong.

I have yet to play with an arms warrior to personally see them in action though

I honestly think we will have way higher in raids, just cause of how much longer the fights will last. When the burst phase is over feral will sky rocket to the top.

[teddabear]

Feral did decently during the Nighthold testing too. We don't have a guardian druid in our raid comp, so stampeding roar is required from someone. It is 15 yards, which is still useful. Speculating on raid tiers after nighthold is pointless, we don't even know if we will have another one after it.

I am still confused by what you mean as "badly unbalanced". We are amazing at ST and 2-3 target cleave. We can't also be amazing at AOE too, otherwise we would need ST and cleave nerfs. We have ramp-up time, and in all mythic fights there is enough time to ramp-up

Ultimate we have

Top tier ST, Near Bottom tier AoE (there are worse AoE classes though), decent burst AoE with shadow thrash/BRS if needed. We have good mobility, and we do have more utility then some classes do, and less then others.

Target switching sucks ONLY because we need ramp-up time, which is readily available in heroic progression and mythic progression (this is why ferals did decently in emerald nightmare and nighthold)

Feral is a competitive class this expansion for raids, just not competitive for M+ (you'll still get M10 done easily, which is all that matters), It is however hard to play.

There's alot of balance tuning that I believe will be coming, and more than likely other classes will be tuned down (DH AoE, WW AoE)

On the 3 most important tiers 75, 90 and 100 there is no choice. SR, JW and BT are miles ahead of the competing talents.

BRS is badly under tuned. The recharge time would need to be half of what it is for Feral to be competive at AOE. Not top tier, just competitive.

A Predator, SotF, EG build could be viable for a priority add fight but since SR and JW are tuned so much higher the loss in DPS will never be worth it unless the tree is substantially retuned. Also FB is badly in need of a very large buff. Since Blizzard instead gave FB a very large nerf that casts considerable doubt on whether they have a clue about what they are doing.

Most of the last minute hot fixes were the exact opposite of what was needed leaving little hope that future tuning will adequately address what is needed. While I agree it would be fairly easy to make Feral a good well rounded spec I see no evidence that it is headed in that direction.

I think some people are overly optimistic because SR and BT are overtuned right now but I would not count on that lasting. Will Feral's shortcomings be adequately addressed when those 2 talents get nerfed? I highly doubt it