[Legion] Brusalk's Destro Guide

[Arghazul]

Are you going to be adding artifact relics? I assume either immolate damage or immolate crit are the best.

[Deleted]

So I know I asked this before..

but what's our stat weights?

Noxxic and SimCraft favour Haste + Crit.

Mr Robot favours haste + mastery

[Vindications]

So I know I asked this before..

but what's our stat weights?

Noxxic and SimCraft favour Haste + Crit.

Mr Robot favours haste + mastery

Bro.. it's literally on the first page of the thread... in the guide this thread is responding to.

"but general consensus right now is Haste >> Crit > Vers >= Mastery."

[Baconeggcheese]

I simmed the crap out of my char this morning and my results were nothing like what's been going around the lock discord. Only if I took a very specific talent setup did haste have any significant value over the other stats, and even then it was more like 1.2 for haste with .8 for the absolute worst stat, and the other 2 stats being roughly equal with int which is a massive difference vs the statweights floating around. If I used any of the typical dungeon setups the stat weights shifted and all stats may as well be equal.

As far as I can tell from repeated sims (if these sims are any accurate) is that ilvl / sockets are more important than optimal stats for at least what gear is possible to get right now.

[Gaidax]

Yes, as soon as you leave the artificial single target comfort zone the stat weights seem to change a lot.

I think Haste is still the best overall, but the rest is much murkier as differences there jump around and are pretty close.

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Yes, as soon as you leave the artificial single target comfort zone the stat weights seem to change a lot.

I think Haste is still the best overall, but the rest is much murkier as differences there jump around and are pretty close.

To be honest I'm not even sure the sims are in good state yet.

[Deleted]

I simmed the crap out of my char this morning and my results were nothing like what's been going around the lock discord. Only if I took a very specific talent setup did haste have any significant value over the other stats, and even then it was more like 1.2 for haste with .8 for the absolute worst stat, and the other 2 stats being roughly equal with int which is a massive difference vs the statweights floating around. If I used any of the typical dungeon setups the stat weights shifted and all stats may as well be equal.

As far as I can tell from repeated sims (if these sims are any accurate) is that ilvl / sockets are more important than optimal stats for at least what gear is possible to get right now.

Thanks, could I get a link to that Discord? Would prefer a more real-time chat with other Locks.

Bro.. it's literally on the first page of the thread... in the guide this thread is responding to.

"but general consensus right now is Haste >> Crit > Vers >= Mastery."

Yes and when was that last edited?

As I said Mr Robot has VERY RECENTLY changed Destro to Haste > Mastery > Crit

Like within the past few days.

[Deleted]

Thanks, could I get a link to that Discord? Would prefer a more real-time chat with other Locks.



Yes and when was that last edited?

As I said Mr Robot has VERY RECENTLY changed Destro to Haste > Mastery > Crit

Like within the past few days.

Mastery > crit?

Damn.

Honestly if I could I'd take only Int + Haste on every item. Haste is so much fun. Mastery is not.

[bio347]

Has there been any analysis anywhere on neck enchants? I'm seeing a relatively even split between Claw and Satyr from various sources, and about none of them have actually written any reasoning for their choice.

[Gaidax]

I always claimed and keep claiming that at the very least Mastery>Versatility. I do not know which simulator is correct or not, but Versatility>=Mastery simply makes no sense and you can check it.

[Deleted]

First of all thank you very much for the quality guide. Hard to come by these days. In addition I have 2 questions regarding the guide/content.

1. If specced into RB and NOT wreak havoc, how do I utilize Havoc the best in cleave situations? Do I (double)immolate 2 targets beforehand, havoc and then 2x chaos bolt and 2x conflag?! If no delay or movement in between, this works timewise.

2. Is cata a dps increase single target? Or do we just not use it in that case?

[Xorn]

I always claimed and keep claiming that at the very least Mastery>Versatility. I do not know which simulator is correct or not, but Versatility>=Mastery simply makes no sense and you can check it.

I mean, you'd think that, but for a few classes/specs Versatility is the BEST stat. It's weird, but maybe not outside the realm of possibilities

[Xeranath]

I always claimed and keep claiming that at the very least Mastery>Versatility. I do not know which simulator is correct or not, but Versatility>=Mastery simply makes no sense and you can check it.

I'm simming once a day, and it's still showing version trumping mastery, which seems wrong. I'm sure you'd be safe if you just focus on haste and take what ever secondary comes your way, at least this early in to the sims.

Sometimes I wish they'd amend chaos bolt to read: always crits, and always benefits from your maximum mastery"

[Xorn]

I'm simming once a day, and it's still showing version trumping mastery, which seems wrong. I'm sure you'd be safe if you just focus on haste and take what ever secondary comes your way, at least this early in to the sims.

Sometimes I wish they'd amend chaos bolt to read: always crits, and always benefits from your maximum mastery"

Ha, we can dream, right?


Actually... that would have been an AMAZING cooldown. An ability that that makes all of our spells gain the maximum benefit from our mastery amount for x seconds. Too similar to Combustion? Probably. But still better than what we've got

[Xeranath]

Ha, we can dream, right?


Actually... that would have been an AMAZING cooldown. An ability that that makes all of our spells gain the maximum benefit from our mastery amount for x seconds. Too similar to Combustion? Probably. But still better than what we've got

Knowing blizzard, they'd probably make the cooldown "doubles your mastery for 10 seconds" haha.

[Duckz0rs]

A question about off-specs. I'm maining destro but I'm getting to the point where I should probably be putting some points into an off-spec artifact soon. Obviously we'll end up maxing all the artifacts, but I personally prefer to focus on two before the release of Emerald Nightmare.

I was thinking Demo fills Destro's relative weak spots (burst AoE and ST) better than Affli and thus picking it as an off-spec. Is this correct from a raiding and mythic + point of view? The off-spec will only serve as a supplement to Destro really.

[Scathbais]

I was thinking Demo fills Destro's relative weak spots (burst AoE and ST) better than Affli and thus picking it as an off-spec. Is this correct from a raiding and mythic + point of view? The off-spec will only serve as a supplement to Destro really.

That is what I plan to do. I really love the idea of new Demo and if Watcher/Blizzard listens at all to our feedback, I might main Demo/ offspec Destro instead of Destro/Demo.

[Baconeggcheese]

@Dizzy2k

1~ It'd likely depend on how it lines up, but generally if you're in a situation where you don't have wreak havoc then your havoc targets aren't living very long and aren't very frequent so you'd just CB / conflag / incinerate appropriately.

2~ For the future just ask yourself, "does this spell do more damage than another spell in my X rotation?" If yes, then yes, if no, then no.

[Deleted]

sooo discord link anyone?

[Deleted]

sooo discord link anyone?

https://goo.gl/7PH6Bn

[Turturin the Warlock]

I always claimed and keep claiming that at the very least Mastery>Versatility. I do not know which simulator is correct or not, but Versatility>=Mastery simply makes no sense and you can check it.

Correct. The two most popular guides out there suggest versatility > mastery, but no evidence to support this claim is provided and it simply doesn't make sense.

On a single target, even if you assume pets do 20% of your damage, mastery is 37% more efficient than versatility. Here's basic math:

400 rating = 1% versatility = 1% dmg
117 rating = 1% mastery = 0.4% dmg*

*It's .5% of "your spells" so pet's don't benefit. .4% assumes pets do about 20% of your damage ST. For multi target it's much less and mastery gets even better compared with versatility.

So to get 1% damage from mastery you need 2.5 * 117 = 292 rating.

Since neither have any additional interaction (resources, cooldown reductions, et al), it's fair to compare them point for point.

Mathematically, mastery is fully 37% better than versatility (400/292 = 1.37) on a single target.


The only argument presented agains this is the "omg so random" argument related to mastery. While in a short burst window you could get unlucky, you could also get unlucky with crit. Yet no one claims you should avoid crit. and over the course of actual fights this will even out.

I get it, no one likes random. But I also don't see that as a valid reason to take a significantly less efficient stat. And I know it's not just me who thinks this is a headscratcher.

Look, the guidewriters do a great job and it's hard to get everything right. Yet this point has been brought up by multiple people without response or defense. There's no mathematical basis for the claim that vers > mastery, and a very thin logical claim at best.

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I simmed the crap out of my char this morning and my results were nothing like what's been going around the lock discord. Only if I took a very specific talent setup did haste have any significant value over the other stats, and even then it was more like 1.2 for haste with .8 for the absolute worst stat, and the other 2 stats being roughly equal with int which is a massive difference vs the statweights floating around. If I used any of the typical dungeon setups the stat weights shifted and all stats may as well be equal.

As far as I can tell from repeated sims (if these sims are any accurate) is that ilvl / sockets are more important than optimal stats for at least what gear is possible to get right now.

100% correct imo and same results I'm getting when looking at actual gear I have (not some BIS gear I want but can't even close to get because only 3 loot lockouts and only 2 for arcway/CoS). To much focus on secondaries right now. at more than 5 ilvl difference or when socket involved, take the ilvl/socket. at 5 ilvls, as long as versatility isn't involved, probably still safe to just take the ilvl.