Is Disc broken?

[Goshko]

ummm, Psychic Scream and Mind Control are baseline. Shining Force (our knockback) is talented, so why do I need 2 talents on row 3?

A bit hard to heal and MC if you don't take Dominant mind.

[Djriff]

A bit hard to heal and MC if you don't take Dominant mind.

True, but who needs to heal if the mobs are CC'd? :P

[Goshko]

True, but who needs to heal if the mobs are CC'd? :P

You do have a point

[Deleted]

So I should use Shining Force or my AoE fear and potentially pull more mobs as CC? Last I checked that's all disc has in the realm of CC. That is definitely not the answer.

IMO its better to knockback a mob and let the party live than to let it slaughter you. If other people get upset at you just tell them that they should have interrupetd themselves then. Also, are people forgeting life grip? I frequently grip pugs out of bad when they stand in it for too long, that is often better than spamming shadowmend until they move.

[Djriff]

IMO its better to knockback a mob and let the party live than to let it slaughter you. If other people get upset at you just tell them that they should have interrupetd themselves then. Also, are people forgeting life grip? I frequently grip pugs out of bad when they stand in it for too long, that is often better than spamming shadowmend until they move.

I agree that knocking back a mob is a good use if you're going to interrupt something, however it's a terrible idea if you knock the mob back into another mob and pull more and then wipe.

The discussion was about CC, not necessarily life grip which is a great tool to use and I've used it several times to pull people out of the fire.

[Rife]

If you're running with a group of proper good players playing good classes you don't even need a healer for mythics.

Run WW/WW/DH/DH/DH and trash will die before it has a chance to do anything outside of stuns and bosses only deal avoidable damage now.

It's no surprise that Disc does fine in an environment in which a healer isn't even needed.

Tank and dps (melee) design has taken us to a place where being a healer isn't important anymore for any reason other than for recovering for fuckups. If no one gets hit by the AoE on EoA last boss for example you don't need a healer. The tank doesn't need heals and DPS who don't stand in fire don't take damage. Yet that same boss is one of the hardest to heal most of the time because people stand in shit. Healing up that damage is literally what healing is all about in Legion.

The argument that Disc is fine so long as you don't run with retards is a stupid one. If you don't run with retards you don't even need a healer. Healers exist in this game to allow groups to recover from sub-optimal play. Disc's should be just as good at performing that role as other healers.

[anon5123]

If you're running with a group of proper good players playing good classes you don't even need a healer for mythics.

Run WW/WW/DH/DH/DH and trash will die before it has a chance to do anything outside of stuns and bosses only deal avoidable damage now.

wat

Not sure what "mythics" you're running where trash dies within the window of a 5 second stun, and where bosses apparently don't deal melee damage? And there are tons of unavoidable damage sources, what the hell are you talking about?

[Rife]

@anon5123 There are multiple stuns and you'd be surprised at how fast trash dies when you have 4 people doing 500k+ and 250-350k on bosses. Tanks don't need any healing when bosses die in 60 seconds or less and they can just chain cooldowns.

[Totaltotemic]

So I should use Shining Force or my AoE fear and potentially pull more mobs as CC? Last I checked that's all disc has in the realm of CC. That is definitely not the answer.

Is this real life? You knock the mobs back towards where you came from. What dungeons are you doing where this is impossible? The very room with the Risen Scouts is specifically set up to allow you to CC mobs however you want because there is no trash in the entire area you could possibly pull.

No wonder you guys have problems, you think you literally can't interrupt group destroying casts lol. Even simply knocking them 2 feet into a pillar stops it.

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He's probably thinking of MC. The fact it doesn't work on demons, undead and robots is inconsequential, you just need to GIT GUD enough and it will. You'll also get the knockback ... somehow. I'm guessing if your group is good you get 2 talent points for the third row. I'll have to get back to you on that one.

I didn't say anything about MC. You're making things up and straight up lying now to attempt to be right and cover up your own bad play. That's just sad.

I don't even know what you guys hope to accomplish whining on a non-official forum about how bad you are at Disc. Just play something else and be done with it if you think it's so unable to do basic content.

[anon5123]

There are multiple stuns

Two words:

Diminishing Returns

Tanks don't need any healing when bosses die in 60 seconds or less and they can just chain cooldowns.

Warrior tanks and their brokenly OP Ignore Pain, maybe, but outside of that, no.

If you're so insistent that this works though, I'd love to see a video of a mythic dungeon run with no healer.

[Logwyn]

Why do people always assume this?

I mean it's not like we had Legion specs during the 7.0 prepatch in WoD.......oh wait

Disc isn't hard to play, it's just clunky compared to the other healers, and struggles in 5mans because you have to juggle the group and the tank at the same time, being the only healer.

With all the self healing that tanks have now. Should this be an issue? Or tanks not using there healing? Demon hunters main abilities spam heal themselves as it is...

[davesignal]

Is this real life? You knock the mobs back towards where you came from. What dungeons are you doing where this is impossible? The very room with the Risen Scouts is specifically set up to allow you to CC mobs however you want because there is no trash in the entire area you could possibly pull.

No wonder you guys have problems, you think you literally can't interrupt group destroying casts lol. Even simply knocking them 2 feet into a pillar stops it.

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I didn't say anything about MC. You're making things up and straight up lying now to attempt to be right and cover up your own bad play. That's just sad.

I don't even know what you guys hope to accomplish whining on a non-official forum about how bad you are at Disc. Just play something else and be done with it if you think it's so unable to do basic content.

Maybe they like riling up the Discipline Defense Squad? You make it really easy.

Infracted for Trolling - Djriff

[Djriff]

Is this real life? You knock the mobs back towards where you came from. What dungeons are you doing where this is impossible? The very room with the Risen Scouts is specifically set up to allow you to CC mobs however you want because there is no trash in the entire area you could possibly pull.

No wonder you guys have problems, you think you literally can't interrupt group destroying casts lol. Even simply knocking them 2 feet into a pillar stops it.

Sure in that specific scenario, however do that in EoA or in any other instance where trash packs are close enough to where it could happen. Sure you can knock it toward you, but it's not an absolutely reliable from of CC IMO.

I'm not having any problems in mythics at all, I was speaking generally.

I didn't say anything about MC. You're making things up and straight up lying now to attempt to be right and cover up your own bad play. That's just sad.

I don't even know what you guys hope to accomplish whining on a non-official forum about how bad you are at Disc. Just play something else and be done with it if you think it's so unable to do basic content.

I'm not sure why you're being so antagonistic, you just said CC and didn't specify and technically MC is a form of CC.

This forum is for discussion mate, and honestly all you've been doing is telling everyone how bad they are.

With all the self healing that tanks have now. Should this be an issue? Or tanks not using there healing? Demon hunters main abilities spam heal themselves as it is...

Even with that, sometimes the tank gets trucked and you have to heal, it sucks when things line up badly, but it happens.

The main problem is, if disc get's caught flat footed it's hard to catch up.

[Inhoc]

I created a thread about this but figured I'd copy it here:

I've seen a lot of complaining about discipline priests and thought I'd share my experience as someone healing with discipline in mythic 5 mans.

First, disc is really good as long as you understand a few key things about the spec. You must have the following talents without exception: Castigaton, Twist of Fate, and Grace. I also strongly recommend Mindbender though it is not necessary.

Next, you need to understand that disc is a spot heal spec, meaning you will almost never cast Power Word: Radiance. I only use this ability if I need to apply Atonement to three targets and need to shave 1 second off application for some reason. So almost never.

Therefore, you should almost always be applying Atonement to targets individually, with targets with damage getting Power Word: Shield or Shadow Mend, and targets with little or no damage receiving Plea. Once you have Atonement on your group or at least the members who need healing, you cast Penance. If your group still needs healing and Atonement is still up you can cast Smite, Light's Wrath, or use Mindbender for strong sustained group healing.

Try to keep Shadow Word: Pain on as many targets as possible but do not go out of your way to apply to every target and do not dot if you should be healing.

You do these things and practice, then you can heal any mythic with a disc priest pretty easily.

Hey man I really appreciated this reply. I was interested in knowing what other talents you took up from the talent tree besides the ones you mentioned? Also, any tips on how to heal effectively when having to move around, AoE heal, and heal tank? Some boss fights that require all three of those at the same time give me a lot of difficulty.

Thanks!

[Totaltotemic]

Sure in that specific scenario, however do that in EoA or in any other instance where trash packs are close enough to where it could happen. Sure you can knock it toward you, but it's not an absolutely reliable from of CC IMO.

I'm not having any problems in mythics at all, I was speaking generally.

I'm not sure why you're being so antagonistic, you just said CC and didn't specify and technically MC is a form of CC.

You seem to have never even tried it, so what do you know about how successful that is at interrupting harmful casts? You also have Psychic Scream at your disposal which breaks almost instantly so it too can be used to interrupt casts in a pinch. Neither of these things is a desirable way to stop devastating casts that total over 5 million damage, but they are far, far better solutions than doing nothing, dying, and then complaining on the Internet about it and denying that they were ever even solutions to begin with.

And seriously? Dominate Mind is what comes to mind before Psychic Scream? You know you can even cast Shackle Undead at almost every mob in Blackrook to stop a single cast, right?

This forum is for discussion mate, and honestly all you've been doing is telling everyone how bad they are.

Sure, if you get triggered by individual words and ignore the paragraphs upon paragraphs of supporting explanation. Easier to set up a strawman of the big bad meanie than to address any actual points, right? That's totally more productive to discussion than straight-up falsehoods like

So I should use Shining Force or my AoE fear and potentially pull more mobs as CC? Last I checked that's all disc has in the realm of CC.

When you specifically mention MC and fail to mention Shackle Undead as well. But hey, this is MMOC, and the solution to quell dissidents to the popular opinion is to make things up and pull the "discussion" card because apparently not being a circlejerk echo chamber is prohibitive to discussion, while lies and slander are what, conducive to it?

[Bareturtle]

I'm kind of curious about what fights/trash are causing people to complain about a lack of CC. I've cleared all the mythics both weeks now and we didn't use anything more than cap totem/dps interrupts on key casts. I'm kinda with Total on this one, if your party members can't press their buttons the group shouldn't succeed. Maybe if you guys identified specific fights or pulls that are causing you trouble we could help you find solutions?

[Djriff]

You seem to have never even tried it, so what do you know about how successful that is at interrupting harmful casts? You also have Psychic Scream at your disposal which breaks almost instantly so it too can be used to interrupt casts in a pinch. Neither of these things is a desirable way to stop devastating casts that total over 5 million damage, but they are far, far better solutions than doing nothing, dying, and then complaining on the Internet about it and denying that they were ever even solutions to begin with.

I have tried it quite successfully, I'm just saying that it's not reliable as CC. As an interrupt? Sure.

And seriously? Dominate Mind is what comes to mind before Psychic Scream? You know you can even cast Shackle Undead at almost every mob in Blackrook to stop a single cast, right?

I mentioned Psychic Scream earlier, in fact you quoted me saying that. And sure if you want to use Shackle Undead, you can.

Sure, if you get triggered by individual words and ignore the paragraphs upon paragraphs of supporting explanation. Easier to set up a strawman of the big bad meanie than to address any actual points, right? That's totally more productive to discussion than straight-up falsehoods like

So I should use Shining Force or my AoE fear and potentially pull more mobs as CC? Last I checked that's all disc has in the realm of CC.

When you specifically mention MC and fail to mention Shackle Undead as well. But hey, this is MMOC, and the solution to quell dissidents to the popular opinion is to make things up and pull the "discussion" card because apparently not being a circlejerk echo chamber is prohibitive to discussion, while lies and slander are what, conducive to it?

I'm not getting "triggered" as you say, but honestly if you want to talk about an echo chamber you really need to take a step back.

Half of the stuff you're saying I agree with and you seem to be arguing just for the sake of arguing.

[Krstl]

I don't understand how this is STILL a topic of discussion. Disc is not broken, Disc healers are not bad healers. I was healing Mythic dungeons the 2nd day of Legion with shit gear and had no trouble healing anyone after we figured out the mechanics of the fight. What people need to realize is, people need to be accountable for not standing in stupid and learning how to use their own personal cds and not depend on someone else to do it for them. Healers are there to heal you through mechanics of a boss fight, not to heal you while you stand in poison just so you can keep pushing out those dps numbers. DPS doesn't matter if you are dead and I will gladly let someone die because they are being stupid like that. Don't make your healers work harder than they should. Take some accountability for yourselves.

As for the mana issues, At the end of a boss fight, yes, I do need to get my mana back up. But it's my belief that if you end a boss fight with most of your mana left, you are doing it wrong. Learn to use your mana cds properly (disc has a few, in case you don't know). There's only 1 boss that I've really had mana/healing issues for and that's the stupid serpent boss Serpentrix on Mythic Eye of Azshara. There's a lot of movement with the wind, everyone running around to kill the arcane and fire heads, and poison dropping all over the ground to look out for.

What I mostly see are people complaining about how they don't know how to play the class properly.

[anon5123]

I don't understand how this is STILL a topic of discussion. Disc is not broken, Disc healers are not bad healers.

They're viable, yes, but still the weakest healer.

Disc has to work harder to get the same results as other healers, and mistakes punish them harder.

Comparing it to Holy, Disc does not have any equivalent for Serenity. They don't have a big "oh shit" single target heal, all they have is a dinky little PWS that absorbs maybe 10% of a DPS's health, and Shadow Mend.

They do have a bigass group heal.....but it only heals like 10-15% of the group's health, and is on a 90 second CD, compared to Sanctify, which heals around 30-40% on each target hit, and has a 60 second CD that can be reduced with Serendipity.

Disc is also lacking in the cooldown department, having arguably the worst cooldowns of all the healers. Rapture is meh because PWS is meh. Barrier is meh because it requires everyone to be stacked up. Pain Sup is decent, but 8 seconds on a 4 minute CD is cancer. Power Infusion is decent enough.

Compare that to Holy, who has a big raidwide heal CD, a "save the tank from death" CD, and a "massive throughput for 30 seconds" CD.

I really don't want to hate Disc, but it just feels like a support healer, rather than a standalone healer. Does it work? Yes. Is it viable? Sure. Is it as good as the other healers? Not really, no.

What I mostly see are people complaining about how they don't know how to play the class properly.

And I see more cries if "git gud, it's just your lack of skill!"

7.0 Disc has been out for 2 months now, and even longer if you count PTR and beta. "not knowing how to play the class properly" isn't a valid explanation for hardships.

[pseudoJ]

Interesting. Do you think that Disc does not have a knockback or a CC? That would explain a lot of the problems you think you have (although you have said you have no problems so...?)

No I don't...Though I think that the CC priests do have is situational (either unreliable, works only on specific mob types, or has quite long cd) Nevertheless I agree with you that CC does make things easier and people should employ it way more than they actually do.

also I never said I don't have any problems -- I said that I can do mythics despite having these difficulties...

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Interesting. Do you think that Disc does not have a knockback or a CC? That would explain a lot of the problems you think you have (although you have said you have no problems so...?)

No I don't...Though I think that the CC priests do have is situational (either unreliable, works only on specific mob types, or has quite long cd) Nevertheless I agree with you that CC does make things easier and people should employ it way more than they actually do.

also I never said I don't have any problems -- I said that I can do mythics despite having these difficulties.