WoW was never better in the last 5 years...

[Pull My Finger]

6 months.

That's how long it roughly takes before sour opinions on new expansions begin to appear. Within those 6 months it was all praise on how glorious the content was and how it redeemed the shitfest that the previous expo left behind.

Legion's still in an early honeymoon phase. We'll see in 6 months time how well this holds up.

In 6 months I may not even actively play any more, so I don't see how that makes sense.

Legion is the expansion. It's what we have now. That's what I'm judging, not some stuff they might or might not patch in later.

[Deleted]

I am disappointed so far by Mythic dungeons. They were pretty much no different from heroics, just higher ilvl req. Game has been fun, but I do miss my MoP rotation as holy paladin.
Now I have flash of light and flash of light and some more flash of light. It's like 50%+ of my casted spells. At least early expansions the choices used to be between throughput, mana use and cooldowns. Now the only choice is to use a cooldown or not.
Mana only matters if dps stand in stuff, which is healable even in Mythics sometimes. The only time I've ran out of mana is when I heal bad dps more than the tank. Mythic Maw of Souls second boss, where a single dps received 23% of healing and tank 25%.

Class Campaign felt pretty empty, 80% of it being time-gated Garrison style missions.
I've encountered more harmful bugs than ever before.
Class balance I'm not too sure on. DH aoe burst is really crazy, some classes rotations got destroyed.

What I've been happy about so it's not all negative:
Dungeons. Even if I hate Eye of Azshara itself, the dungeon and idea feels really fun. The dungeons feel really different and unique with interesting mechanics, if only the mechanics mattered.
World quests and ilvl progression feel really fun. Multi-tag on all mobs is cool, actually helping other players and others helping you. The world actually is there now and there is a reason to go there.
Healer dps. Sometimes I'm not even the last on boss dps meters. Doing wqs as healer is possible and isn't worse than retri in many places.
Getting the artifact. The scenario and quest line was fun. Overall quests have been mostly fun.


It's funny OP (or was it op) mentions Retri paladin as being so much more fun now than before. Many lists rank it as the worst melee and it's mechanics as really bad. Levelling as one was good, but doing wqs or dungeons as retri isn't fun at all.

[caervek]

I think most of the shine of Legion ATM is that it's new and has modified features (like world quests rpelacing dailies), it's definitely better than WoD so far however I think we will have to wait for the raids before saying it's better than MoP (which will prob be a yes having seen footage of raids from beta).

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I am disappointed so far by Mythic dungeons. They were pretty much no different from heroics, just higher ilvl req.

That's because mythic in Legion is the same as heroic pre-legion, heroic in legion is equal to normal pre-legion and normal is just an extra easy face-roll mode for use while levelling. If you want dungeons as hard as WoD mythics or pre-WoD heroics you need to wait for Mythic+

[TheVaryag]

I do not want to compare the game with the period 2005-2011 because nostalgia plays such a big role, but ever since Cata the game was never this good really.

I think the strongest 3 points are:

- the way returning players are brought back in: never smoother. The game fits you as a new glove. This was a huge problem for returning players over the years.

- this huge and vast number of playing styles are mixed almost perfectly now. The economy is back, to me one of the most intruiging things in on line play (a pity they killed trading and AH's in Diablo 3)...

- the smoothening of avatar play, less buttons and more distinction between specs.

It is great 9/10.

What 3 points did you see that became better ?

Fyi, whatever moderator gave me an Infraction point for adding to this post before, stop that. Personal bias Is real, hiding behind Scrapbot Is easy I get It. You admins seem to give Infractions at random, at whim, and due your own personal bias' or beliefs which shoudn't mix into an admin's job, thank you.

[MasterHamster]

By this time in WoD I had my professions maxed, my garrison well progressed, got 25 followers and was overgearing dungeons. Then I found a Draenor that offered me zero longevity thanks to feedback in MoP. No factions. Pure garbage rewards from apexis that was so incredibly slow to farm. Nothing to maintain like the various Suramar systems, or an endgame progression (Artifacts)
And one major patch.

We're in 7.0 and I've probably already experienced more meaningful world content than WoD had during it's entire lifespan. And I still have a ton left. WQ scaling makes something worth visiting daily. Professions taking time and effort to master. Factions that once again are relevant to progression.

Sorry, but the people who are saying "we said the same in WoD" either haven't given this much thought, or just want Legion to fail. Comparing Legion to WoD is an insult, just as WoD was an insult to the game.

[caervek]

By this time in WoD I had my professions maxed, my garrison well progressed, got 25 followers and was overgearing dungeons.

As opposed to now where your professions are un-maxed your order hall is barely started you haven't collected all the followers and you don't overgear dungeons?

Seriously if that's true then the difference is that you haven't put as much time/effort in this expansion.

WQ scaling makes something worth visiting daily.

World quests are daily quests with automatic accept and hand in, the scaling is no different to the rewards for doing dailies getting better throughout previous expansions.

Sorry, but the people who are saying "we said the same in WoD" either haven't given this much thought, or just want Legion to fail.

Seems like you either haven't given it much thought or are being overly optimistic about what you're seeing...

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Reasons I think it's best yet:
~ Zone scaling will increase longevity - endgame content viable in every zone, not just one like Tanaan.
~ Some of the best art in history of WoW.
~ Suramar. Most ambitious city they've ever created. Best art. And a plot line more mature than any I can remember in WoW.
~ Dungeons nicely balanced, with great art, back stories, and interesting boss fights.
~ M+ should keep dungeons relevant for longer than any previous xpac.
~ World quests give us a reason to get out and explore daily.
~ We haven't even seen Karazhan or the raids yet!

[Rezhial]

Really liking most things thus far. I think one of my favorite parts is the game gets you back into the world every day. With world quests I can see that happening throughout the entire expansion, which is really exciting.

[Beckers]

I agree, this is the most fun I had in game in years.

Most of the classes I play are fun, the one that are not are benched and I made peace with it. The world is bonkers amazing, if it was up to me I would never return to the other continents.
There is a lot to do, WQ are fun (and due to the lack of flight have much more depth in my opinion) and I think they took only the best parts of the garrison and made the class orders that as a druid I adore.

[HordeFanboy]

Imo it is even better than wotlk. This expansion has everything what we wanted. This expansion is the new era o World of warcraft.

[Acidz]

Depends on your perspective. As a disc priest who likes to pvp the game has never been this crap.

[MasterHamster]

As opposed to now where your professions are un-maxed your order hall is barely started you haven't collected all the followers and you don't overgear dungeons?

Seriously if that's true then the difference is that you haven't put as much time/effort in this expansion.

I've probably got more hours into Legion than I had in WoD by this time. Got to 100, did heroics 2 afternoons and got geared, did garrisons/followers then there was nothing but wait for raids. Great.

Difference now being I'm not being spoonfed to the point my character is ready for raids and have nothing to do in 30 hours /played.
My profs can't be capped just by tradeable mats, instead I actually have to put in effort, unlocking recipes and ranks. Gather Bloods. Actually master my profession instead of crafting the same low-level shit to max.
Order Hall campaign is long and I'm focusing on WQs, Artifact Power, factions and Suramar.
I'm at the point I can start Mythic+. Dungeons that doesn't stop being relevant in 2 days.

Legion non-raid endgame is goddamn vast compared to the joke of WoD.

World quests are daily quests with automatic accept and hand in, the scaling is no different to the rewards for doing dailies getting better throughout previous expansions.

And new raids are just Molten Cores with flashier effects

Seems like you either haven't given it much thought or are being overly optimistic about what you're seeing...

I've definitely given it more thought than most people here. Looking at the bigger picture that most crybabies apparently can't.
I've already seen enough to know that Legion is a vastly different league than WoD in terms of longevity and design. I can already tell that Legion won't bleed subs like a gushing wound a la raid-or-logout WoD.

Whereas WoD was "We have nothing to do", Legion is "Too much!"
I know which problem I prefer to have.

[Deleted]

I have 144h played now, alt+main+leveling process. And I am not feeling that I am tired of the content OR that I have nothing to do.

[Thimagryn]

In 6 months I may not even actively play any more, so I don't see how that makes sense.

Legion is the expansion. It's what we have now. That's what I'm judging, not some stuff they might or might not patch in later.

And that'd be an impression considering how little time is spent on the content in its entirity. An MMO is meant to be played over a long period of time, not just within the 6 months you chose to play and stop. Someone who played a month of WoD and quit could say it was the best expansion they ever played, but it wouldn't be a fair assessment of the expansion. Would you agree with someone who said WoD was a fantastic expansion from the mouth of someone who only played the first couple weeks of WoD and quit soon after?

Legion is the expansion we have now, but that doesn't mean we can give it a fair assessment right now. Even game review sites are wising up and giving a 'first impressions' review score and follow up with another review at a later date for MMO expansions. By player standards, every expansion gets rated in retrospect, and no one cares (or remembers) to compare expansion by first impressions. We won't know if Legion will be the 'best expansion' until it arrives in its entirity. Sure, you can judge it as you have it now, but that'd be no different than the WoW players who touted WoD as the greatest expansion since TBC in its first week of play.

Like I said, 6 months into it is generally when the honeymoon phase of new content glitz wears off and people begin to see the content as it is rather than what they want or expect it to be. We'll begin to see if all the features and gimmicks Blizzard added hold up to repeated play, or if they're just going to be repetitive menial tasks like Garrisons ended up being. New content is fantastic, but not if you're not subject to having to do the same stuff for months on end.

[callipygoustp]

Exactly threads like this was made first week of WoD.
Just a reminder.

^This

Also, for roughly the first month of WoD you had 15-20 servers daily at full capacity. So far, in Legion, the most servers I've seen at full at the same time has been 6.

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I have 144h played now, alt+main+leveling process. And I am not feeling that I am tired of the content OR that I have nothing to do.

That's not surprising at all. 144h? Dude, you are still well with in the "honeymoon" period of your WoW experience.

[Cthulhu 2020]

My favorite part so far is all of the class lore. Blizzard kept saying "Yeah we want to add class lore in but we just didn't have any time for it. (Because we were working on green orc Jesus's story)"

Well this expansion not only delivers hugely on class lore, but on world lore as well as it relates to the classes. You understand the role of rogues, death knights, druids, etc. in the world better than ever before as you play through their stories.

While at their core, many of the classes still play extremely similarly, they definitely widened the gap as to HOW similar those playstyles were. The homogenization that happened in Cata through WoD is now being picked apart and we're finally starting to see some original mechanics again. You feel a sense of class pride like you used to be able to in Wrath and prior. In MoP it's like "Oh you're a DK? So in other words you're a melee DPS."

While there's still that ranged/melee dps distinction, and you want a balance of both, there's now class identity, and you don't want to pack your raid/group full of one class because you want a variety instead of just wanting ranged/melee dps balance.

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly threads like this was made first week of WoD.
Just a reminder.

You also saw a whole lot of "Okay I finished this stuff, now what do I do?" to which the answer was farmville your garrison.

The mission table might be back, but it plays such a minor role in character advancement. In WoD you could get everything you needed from your garrison. In Legion you get some small bonuses from your order hall, but you have to go into the world to get most of your cake and eat it too.

There are people out in the world again like there were for MoP dailies, but this time around, because of the chests you get for completing 4 world quests, you'll see people doing them well into the expansion as they offer an elevated chance of getting legendaries, as well as tons of order hall resources or gold.

[Sabever]

I do not want to compare the game with the period 2005-2011 because nostalgia plays such a big role, but ever since Cata the game was never this good really.

I think the strongest 3 points are:

- the way returning players are brought back in: never smoother. The game fits you as a new glove. This was a huge problem for returning players over the years.

- this huge and vast number of playing styles are mixed almost perfectly now. The economy is back, to me one of the most intruiging things in on line play (a pity they killed trading and AH's in Diablo 3)...

- the smoothening of avatar play, less buttons and more distinction between specs.

It is great 9/10.

What 3 points did you see that became better ?

Subs estimated at 7MM right now, this includes all of china that was not recorded previously, Old players are not coming back. My old guild is still almost empty and we all played heavy in vanilla and BC.

In 7 weeks this game will be dead again.

[EternalBany]

legion is indeed a big step ahead and makes people feel the vibe warcraft universe used to give.
Let's hope this vibe stays for the whole expansion and the ones after!

i feel like i am playing warcraft III
but online

isnt this what people always wanted? before the sponsored hardcore teams started swooping in and racing like retards shitting all over the content and lore

[Pull My Finger]

And that'd be an impression considering how little time is spent on the content in its entirity. An MMO is meant to be played over a long period of time, not just within the 6 months you chose to play and stop. Someone who played a month of WoD and quit could say it was the best expansion they ever played, but it wouldn't be a fair assessment of the expansion. Would you agree with someone who said WoD was a fantastic expansion from the mouth of someone who only played the first couple weeks of WoD and quit soon after?

I don't think that there is a period of time that one is "supposed to" play an MMO or that there are set-in-stone laws about how long they're "meant" to be played. In any case, 6 months is already a reasonable period of time because it definitely includes everything that the expansion ships with and most probably also the first content patch. That's already a lot of gameplay and a long time for playing a video game. Everyone decides for themselves when they're "done" or when they've experienced what they consider the "meat" of the expansion.

Content patches mean progressively less and less to me. The further the expansion cycle progresses, the more it becomes simply prolongating the time period so the team has more time to work on the next xpac. The initial package is the REAL game - the further down the line, the more it just becomes replacing gear and treading water. So no, I don't have to see even the last x.7.3.1 bugfix patch to have an opinion on the product.

Or if you have to over-obsess about it, we could also say that the expansion is one thing, but the content patch period is a thing of its own. A lot of people don't stick around for the full length of the latter, quit at some point and Bizzard themselves are perfectly OK with it. Are all these people unqualified to comment on an expansion? Silly. It all comes down to priorities. The main package has always been "the real game" to me. The stuff that comes afterwards are encores for people who can't get enough.

Also, chances are: the longer you stick around, the more routine, boredom and chores set in, the more people stop really "playing" and being in the moment, but instead fall into a rhythm of doing their regular thing and getting more and more jaded and pissed off about stupid little shit that I don't obsess over all that much as long as I'm captivated by the game as a whole. So the opinion that people have AFTER the last patch can just as well be viewed as inaccurate or skewed.

[Thimagryn]

I don't think that there is a period of time that one is "supposed to" play an MMO or that there are set-in-stone laws about how long they're "meant" to be played.

Keep in mind the relevant topic at hand - judging the expansion. I understand your sentiment, but saying 'everyone has their own concept of fun' doesn't address the general consensus of rating an expansion. I agree, everyone does have their own opinion on the matter, but when it comes to a general concensus and a 'fair' judgement on any given expansion, a first impression is simply not enough. There is little value in WoD's first-week impressions compared to how it's viewed in its entirity. Legion isn't going to be fairly judged in the same way until we give it some time, and that's all I was pointing out. I never said nor hinted at anything being a set-in-stone law.

I just said 6 months is a good point to start to get a gauge of where this expansion will go; and even then I pointed out that it's not foolproof considering Cata was good past its 6-month duration but fell hard after. 6 Months is the soonest we can get a solid idea without waiting for the next expansion to get a full retroactive review. We just need time to move away from the 'OMG new content!' bias that everyone has at the beginning of every expansion. Otherwise, your idea of people playing their optimal duration of fun excuses any reason to criticize the expansions for their content delivery or the replay value over a long duration.