No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Thirstblood]

Please shut this thread the fuck up now.. this is already getting old news.. just close the thread already... not fucking hard...

[Granyala]

If you're finding logistics in World of Warcraft troublesome enough to say "is it worth it to even bother?", I won't even dare to think what else troubles you in life.

Actually it makes perfect sense. Esp if you are a person that has little time to play.

Imho, every minute i am riding around waiting to get where I want to go in order to do stuff is a minute of my valuable free time wasted not playing the actual game.

World quests are hilariously unfun on ground mounts. Not sure what to do. Part of me wants to send the account to sleep until this BS is over and I can fly again.

[Kazgrel]

Perhaps you've already forgotten that there were a few highly-offended posts about Khadgar saying he preferred his flight form and disliked saddle sores when he takes you out to Azsuna. Outrage of the moment for a few hours. Very demonstrative about how people are willing to be offended by just about anything.

Lol, how did that offend people? If anything, sounds like Khadgar prefers to be able to fly. /shrug

[Wingspan]

Some people may enjoy having flight. I get that. What I don't get is how not having it diminishes the quality of the other content.

Different strokes.


Over 90% of my game time (for eight continuous years) was spent in outdoor zones, so removing it had a pretty severe impact on my game content.

There are so many things that they could have removed and I would not have batted an eye (WPvP, raids, arenas) because they did not impact my game in any quantifiable way... but flight had a HUGE impact on how I played, so it actually inspired me to walk away from an 8-year run on the game.


Different people play different ways. Nothing new or unusual about that.

[Granyala]

Lol, how did that offend people? If anything, sounds like Khadgar prefers to be able to fly. /shrug

Dunno. Just made me go: "I feel ya, buddy".

[hyphnos]

http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...page=2#post-39



This is how much Blizzard hates players consuming content too quickly.

The sad thing about all of this is the more Blizzard nerfs and restricts player movement the more burnout there will be. Or more precisely they are accelerating player burnout by removing player options to able to navigate a world and do the world quests.

Blizzard thinks they are stretching out sub numbers, but what they are doing is causing players to drop off like flies within the first few months. Oh, and let me re-iterate that there are not garrisons to hide this ground and pound experience this time around. And we haven't even hit the one month mark for this expansion yet.

I tend to agree with you. Unless there is something that allow artifacts to progress reasonably outside the world quest system, it will not take very long at all for players to get tired of fighting at level nuisance mobs almost daily while spending probably at least half their playtime on TRANSIT.

They got away with it in WoD as long as they did because nobody really needed to go anywhere. They have imposed going lots of places and tied to this expacs "legendary/artifact" timesuck and coupled that with scaling mobs. I expect the burnout to faster than WoD and instead of a forum outcry it will probably just be a lot of dropped subs and hopefully piss poor follow-on sales to day 1.

[Dormie]

The only way you can argue there's literally no choice is if the zone is designed to where you need flying mounts to access parts of it.

Or if I'm not dense enough to take psychology and how people play this game into account.

The game is currently incomplete without flying in the open world of Legion as far as I am concerned.

LOL. And you people wonder why I can't take you serious.

[Saracens]

If the discussion is going to continue, it needs to do just that. Otherwise, if the bickering and flaming continues, I will close the thread.

[Mafic]

It's like they want to repeat the mistakes Wildstar did by thinking that the majority of their gaming community likes "hardcore"...

Wildstar had too much focus on raiding and not the questing and story of the world. Legion tries to add more to the story and questing experience for non raiders but still falls short. The crazy thing is Wildstar has a better transport system than WoW at the moment.

- - - Updated - - -

I tend to agree with you. Unless there is something that allow artifacts to progress reasonably outside the world quest system, it will not take very long at all for players to get tired of fighting at level nuisance mobs almost daily while spending probably at least half their playtime on TRANSIT.

They got away with it in WoD as long as they did because nobody really needed to go anywhere. They have imposed going lots of places and tied to this expacs "legendary/artifact" timesuck and coupled that with scaling mobs. I expect the burnout to faster than WoD and instead of a forum outcry it will probably just be a lot of dropped subs and hopefully piss poor follow-on sales to day 1.

What will be interesting to see is how quickly if they bring an artifact catchup system before or after flying is introduced.

[Dormie]

Please tell me why a disconnected travel experience of a portal or flightmaster is better than a continous one with personal flight.

Before you can do that, I will consider your arguments beaten. Troll.

If you took two seconds to think about it I wouldn't have to tell you. All a portal does is essentially connect two parts of the world as if they were right next to eachother. What flying does is give you free reign over what you want to skip and drops you right on your objective. No danger, no thinking, just num lock and alt tab.

[Mafic]

Different strokes.


Over 90% of my game time (for eight continuous years) was spent in outdoor zones, so removing it had a pretty severe impact on my game content.

There are so many things that they could have removed and I would not have batted an eye (WPvP, raids, arenas) because they did not impact my game in any quantifiable way... but flight had a HUGE impact on how I played, so it actually inspired me to walk away from an 8-year run on the game.


Different people play different ways. Nothing new or unusual about that.

This is the same for me as well.

It is a big part of my gaming experience. Let those that like their instances have fun there but don't take away flying for those that like world content.

[Kazgrel]

Or if I'm not dense enough to take psychology and how people play this game into account.

If people are too weak-willed to stick to their beloved ground mounts when it's their preferred method of travel...that's not the flying mounts fault.

Oh, that's right, no one wants to "waste time" in this game (or in general).

[hyphnos]

Wildstar had too much focus on raiding and not the questing and story of the world. Legion tries to add more to the story and questing experience for non raiders but still falls short. The crazy thing is Wildstar has a better transport system than WoW at the moment.

- - - Updated - - -



What will be interesting to see is how quickly if they bring an artifact catchup system before or after flying is introduced.

It will happen long before. Tying fundamental abilities to a one or two character timesink is IMO not gonna fly. A lot of talent and glyph abilities that were innate have simply been offloaded onto the artifact timesink, which will preclude a lot of the gameplay that comes from alts for a lot of people.

They do however seem to be able to sell 3 million or so box copies of essentially anything which is sadly I think they thing that protects the devs from too much scrutiny over the lost sub revenue. If subs crater again though, perhaps someone will ask them why can't you sell the boxes and then keep the customers from leaving. Or maybe not. They're not getting my money until the devs decide that my time should be spent playing, not wasted on travel and stringing out content with over the top time gating. It will be months into the game before LFR is open and given that 60% or whatever of players that use the raids at all use LFR, it ought to be interesting to see how patient they will be paying for 3 months of subs before they can access their endgame content.

[Kazgrel]

If you took two seconds to think about it I wouldn't have to tell you. All a portal does is essentially connect two parts of the world as if they were right next to eachother. What flying does is give you free reign over what you want to skip and drops you right on your objective. No danger, no thinking, just num lock and alt tab.

So insta-teleport via portal for immersion is better than flying. Ok then.

[Wingspan]

Blizzard made around $175,000,000 dollars on first day sales of Legion.

To be fair here, I don't think this is entirely accurate.


If we are considering the same source (the 3.3 million copies thing) then that seemed to be worded in such a way it was an "as of the first day" statement, which would include the pre-sales over the last 6 or 8 months. And then of course there is the fact they probably only make 30% or so on the box sales after all the hands in the pie get done.


This is not to say that it is not a strong sales number regardless.

[Mafic]

It will happen long before. Tying fundamental abilities to a one or two character timesink is IMO not gonna fly. A lot of talent and glyph abilities that were innate have simply been offloaded onto the artifact timesink, which will preclude a lot of the gameplay that comes from alts for a lot of people.

They do however seem to be able to sell 3 million or so box copies of essentially anything which is sadly I think they thing that protects the devs from too much scrutiny over the lost sub revenue. If subs crater again though, perhaps someone will ask them why can't you sell the boxes and then keep the customers from leaving. Or maybe not. They're not getting my money until the devs decide that my time should be spent playing, not wasted on travel and stringing out content with over the top time gating. It will be months into the game before LFR is open and given that 60% or whatever of players that use the raids at all use LFR, it ought to be interesting to see how patient they will be paying for 3 months of subs before they can access their endgame content.

They have moved to a front loaded box model as I stated during WoD where subs and tokens are just a bonus at this point. So, they don't really care about keeping subs, but I would argue you make more money from subbed players. Becuase subbed players also are more likely to engage in micro transactions through the Blizzard store.

This is why gating movement out in the world and questing runs the danger of causing a problem down the line where their rate of return diminishes due to a bad rep. If Legion is more of the same as WoD beyond patch X.2 then I don't see things improving.

Especially if flying is re-introduced late into the Legion expansion cycle.

[Kazgrel]

So there's a world quest today called "The Magic of Flight" and the reward is a "Rotten Spellbook" that gives AP. The flavor text is possibly a reference to the northrend flying grimoire.

Undoubtedly Blizzard joking around, but people will take it as a slight to them personally, a slap in the face if you will, if they're one of the people who are REALLY addicted to flight.

The biggest beef I have with those books was when they dropped the price on them from 1k or whatever it was back then down to pretty much nothing (20g, maybe?). Was during Wrath, so that amout of gold had much more purchasing power than it does now. A luxury like that should've remained priced as such.

[Mafic]

So insta-teleport via portal for immersion is better than flying. Ok then.

Yeah with a flying mount you see players going to targets as a group. This is what made the Legion pre patch invasion events so fun and interesting.

[MoanaLisa]

To be fair here, I don't think this is entirely accurate.


If we are considering the same source (the 3.3 million copies thing) then that seemed to be worded in such a way it was an "as of the first day" statement, which would include the pre-sales over the last 6 or 8 months. And then of course there is the fact they probably only make 30% or so on the box sales after all the hands in the pie get done.


This is not to say that it is not a strong sales number regardless.

Probably so. It would be interesting to know how much of what they sell in pre-sales is digital downloads. I would assume that goes all to them straight across. Yeah, it's a strong start.

My main point was that they've factored in losses from flying not being available until later and have seemed to accept that. Which I think was smarter than keeping it out entirely given the number of flying mounts available in the store and the people who had previously purchased them. Taking flying out altogether was always going to be an issue and I have a suspicion (speculative of course) that for all the reasons they decided to put it back in that was high on the list. There very much was a bait-and-switch element to all of that with complete removal. Anyway, I have a sense that they are perfectly comfortable with the way it is now given that their preference is to not have flying at all.

That's being realistic. They don't want it. Otherwise they never would have tried to remove it entirely. SirCowDog is completely correct that flying becomes available when you least need it and that's their point: they don't really want flight to have utility other than what they provide in a limited way through toys and such. Anything or combination of things approaching unlimited flight will be squashed like a bug as we've seen this week. They want it to be a reward for those who just like flying around. It provides utility very late in the expansion if leveling alts but at that point everyone in Irvine has moved on to the next thing. If people find that attitude offensive then that's OK. But it's what it is and I think it unlikely to change. This is how it is.

[Wingspan]

This is the same for me as well.

It is a big part of my gaming experience. Let those that like their instances have fun there but don't take away flying for those that like world content.

Funny thing is, people would occasionally complain about not seeing people in the world zones, and I (one of the few who WAS in the world zones) left the game as a result of killing a mechanic that was supposed to repopulate the zones.


It was a foolish premise anyway... since all it takes to populate world zones is to put something in them worth having (that is seriously all it takes). Since I had "small goals" (professions, alts, questing, pet battles) I had plenty of reason to be there. And now that serious amounts of power (entry raid items, power for artifacts, etc) can be attained there then surprise-surprise, more people are in the world.


It will be interesting to see what will happen as people actually enter the raids though... right now, the populace is pretty warm and fuzzy with the outdoor zones, but how will that translate one people actually have another place to be? The raiders might start out-and-out hating the outdoor zones if they feel required to be there (it is likely actually) and if the outdoor zone gear starts scaling in any decent way in order to keep up, it might make them hate it even more.


Even though I no longer play, I still get a lot of entertainment from watching the events unfold... so there is that I guess. Watching the whole WoD thing unfold was a thing of beauty.