I just can't get behind fel rushing on rotation :(

[Kainslife]

It's pointless to discuss this with them. Raids will come out and real dps logs will show that demonhunter is 15%-20% behind feral/rogue and they're gonna cry and just swap classes anyway. Fuckem.

I shouldn't care, but I need to vent my frustrations with these people. They're the same exact people who are causing me to get tells that read something like

"Sorry, I add 10 iLvLs to the requirements for Demon Hunters because there are so many terrible ones."

I mean, I knew the community backlash was going to be bad but it's much more work to find groups than I was anticipating it would be. Granted, the bads are doing me a favor by making it easier to stand out once my foot is in the door. The problem is that the door is barely open a crack already for melee DPS. Now I have to contend with that and the reputation preceding me that these guys are no doubt having a hand in crafting.

[sajin001]

No, but no one in this thread is asking for variety.

Your camp is asking for a core, rotationally-mandatory ability to be made optional through talents for a 5% DPS loss. This request is objectively identical to a Fire Mage asking for talents that make Fireball optional. It would be a complete waste of talents, as Blizzard would have to sacrifice talents that would enhance the flavor of the proper build to instead offer talents that would remove it completely. For evidence of this, see how miserable the Marksman tree's first row is - Lone Wolf is the only talent one should ever take in that row and it only exists because Blizzard caved and listened to folks like you asking for core mechanical changes to the spec.

And, on top of that, you want this build to be within 5% DPS of the proper build, at the risk of something unforeseen causing it to actually be stronger than the Fel Rush build, which would completely ruin the class for everyone who is playing one properly and as Blizzard obviously intends them to.

What people in this thread are truly asking for is a third Demon Hunter spec that does not use Fel Rush as part of the core rotation. The fact that Blizzard didn't go that route, and the fact that the Fel Rush / Momentum build is 20% ahead of a non-Fel Rush / Momentum build, should be all of the evidence you need that this is how the class is designed to be played. At this point, any reasonable person takes one of two options - they choose to play correctly and use Fel Rush or they reroll to a class that doesn't have movement and repositioning as part of their skillcap. There are roughly 11 other melee specs to choose from that don't have this core mechanic.

It's unreasonable to expect Blizzard to make a build that doesn't use movement and repositioning as a core gameplay mechanic because they've already done that with every single other melee spec in the game. It would be unreasonable to expect Blizzard to craft a Fire mage build that didn't use Fireball, thus it's unreasonable for you to expect them to craft a Havoc DH build that doesn't use Fel Rush. If you truly want to play a spec that doesn't reposition regularly then you do not want to play DH. You might think you do, but you don't.

The playstyle is just that, a style. If that was the desired shape of the class would not talents like momentum, fel mastery, etc. Be baseline aspects of the class rather than mandatory talents that must be taken? Otherwise, the purpose of even having talents is defeated and harkens back to the time where specs have one build and anyone who chose a talent outside of the one build is bad.

[Kainslife]

The playstyle is just that, a style. If that was the desired shape of the class would not talents like momentum, fel mastery, etc. Be baseline aspects of the class rather than mandatory talents that must be taken? Otherwise, the purpose of even having talents is defeated and harkens back to the time where specs have one build and anyone who chose a talent outside of the one build is bad.

No, because those abilities are enhancing the playstyle not altering it. You'd still be using Fel Rush rotationally even if you chose not to take either of those talents.

For examples of this in other classes, take a look at the following talents:

* Unholy DKs still use Death Coil even if they choose to not take Shadow Infusion or Necrosis.
* Fury Warriors still use Raging Blow even if they choose to not take Inner Rage. They still use Rampage even if they don't choose to take Carnage.
* Enhancement Shaman still use Lava Lash if they don't take Hot Hand. They also still use Rockbiter/Boulderfist if they don't take Landslide. They also still use Crash Lightning if they don't choose to take Crashing Storm.

Suggesting that Momentum and Fel Mastery be removed or made baseline would also be suggesting that any talent similar to those listed above should also be removed or made baseline. Suggesting that Fel Rush be made optional by taking a talent would be suggesting that any of the abilities mentioned above also be made optional by not taking specific talents, something that would be regarded as ludicrous.

[Unholyground]

Honestly they need to make it so Fel Rush doesn't push you forward unless you are moving similar to the Monks Roll in other directions and do its damage in a burst. This would solve a lot of these issues people are having, it would make everyone happy.

[Kainslife]

Honestly they need to make it so Fel Rush doesn't push you forward unless you are moving similar to the Monks Roll in other directions and do its damage in a burst. his would solve a lot of these issues people are having, it would make everyone happy.

And introduce a whole host of other problems like "Why does DH now play like every other melee class in the game?" It wouldn't make everyone happy because there are people who literally rolled DH because of Fel Rush.

[Deleted]

I insist, FR is fine, VR is the problem.

[Unholyground]

And introduce a whole host of other problems like "Why does DH now play like every other melee class in the game?" It wouldn't make everyone happy because there are people who literally rolled DH because of Fel Rush.

That seems like a dumb reason roll a DH as a whole they are amazing even without it. It is a great idea and they could just make it so momentum takes that away and it becomes an auto push forward.

[sajin001]

No, because those abilities are enhancing the playstyle not altering it. You'd still be using Fel Rush rotationally even if you chose not to take either of those talents.

For examples of this in other classes, take a look at the following talents:

* Unholy DKs still use Death Coil even if they choose to not take Shadow Infusion or Necrosis.
* Fury Warriors still use Raging Blow even if they choose to not take Inner Rage. They still use Rampage even if they don't choose to take Carnage.
* Enhancement Shaman still use Lava Lash if they don't take Hot Hand. They also still use Rockbiter/Boulderfist if they don't take Landslide. They also still use Crash Lightning if they don't choose to take Crashing Storm.

Suggesting that Momentum and Fel Mastery be removed or made baseline would also be suggesting that any talent similar to those listed above should also be removed or made baseline. Suggesting that Fel Rush be made optional by taking a talent would be suggesting that any of the abilities mentioned above also be made optional by not taking specific talents, something that would be regarded as ludicrous.

And a shaman who specs hailstorm adds an ability to their rotation that would otherwise go unused.

You prefer fel rush and I get it. I don't mind it, but I'd like to see havoc have more than one talent build, mainly for fights where movement and positioning will be restricted and fel rushing around might end up killing you and hindering progress on a boss.

[Kainslife]

That seems like a dumb reason roll a DH as a whole they are amazing even without it. It is a great idea and they could just make it so momentum takes that away and it becomes an auto push forward.

This doesn't even make sense. Without using Fel Rush, DH plays identical to almost any other melee class - stand still behind the target and spam buttons. How is that at all amazing? Frankly, your terrible suggestion takes away the single thing unique to Havoc.

You think Havoc being the only spec in the entire game to use repositioning and skillshots as a core mechanic is a dumb reason to play it?

And a shaman who specs hailstorm adds an ability to their rotation that would otherwise go unused.

Frostbrand is not a core rotational ability. There are about 50 other abilities in the game that offer the same exact functionality as Frostbrand. Fel Rush is both a core rotational ability and the only one of its kind in the entire game. Your analogy does not apply here.

[Unholyground]

This doesn't even make sense. Without using Fel Rush, DH plays identical to almost any other melee class - stand still behind the target and spam buttons. How is that at all amazing? Frankly, your terrible suggestion takes away the single thing unique to Havoc.



Frostbrand is not a core rotational ability. Fel Rush is, thus that's a completely useless analogy.

I don't know, I think my idea is the best compromise you are going to get without them making Fel Rush a talent choice and making Felblade the rotational ability as a default.

[Kainslife]

I don't know, I think my idea is the best compromise you are going to get without them making Fel Rush a talent choice and making Felblade the rotational ability as a default.

A turd is still a turd even if it's the shiniest turd. There is no compromise on this subject. Fel Rush is as core to Havoc as Fireball is to a Fire Mage. It would be unreasonable to compromise over making Fireball optional, thus it's unreasonable to compromise over making Fel Rush optional.

[Unholyground]

A turd is still a turd even if it's the shiniest turd. There is no compromise on this subject. Fel Rush is as core to Havoc as Fireball is to a Fire Mage. It would be unreasonable to compromise over making Fireball optional, thus it's unreasonable to compromise over making Fel Rush optional.

Then the other Idea is making it so that Felblade replaces Fel Rush when you pick it as an upgraded version.

[Kainslife]

Then the other Idea is making it so that Felblade replaces Fel Rush when you pick it as an upgraded version.

That's also a ridiculous idea. Are you seriously suggesting that Bloodthirst become a Fury Talent or Fireball become a Fire Mage talent? No? Then why are suggesting the Havoc equivalent become a talent?

[Hexxidecimal]

Except their pet is not a rotational ability AND not taking Lone Wolf is a huge DPS loss. Fel Rush is closer to Marked Shot or Aimed Shot for MM. In fact, Blizzard originally had Marksman without a pet but due to community whiny about it they went ahead and added Lone Wolf to the talent tree.

Guess who wins there? Absolutely no one, because now Marksman has an entire dead row because the only choice to play correctly is Lone Wolf. And funnily enough, because so many Demon Hunters obviously will refuse to play around with Fel Rush, Blizzard has had to make half of our rows dead rows to force people to accept Fel Rush as a rotational ability. Because they need to weed out the Illidan wannabees, we have one row of talents that boils down to a choice between ST or AE. Funnily enough, your camp's desire for a non-Fel Rush playstyle probably directly contributed to how hard Blizzard is pushing the Fel Rush playstyle by nerfing every other build into the ground.

If you can't see that as the ultimate evidence that Blizzard fully intends Fel Rush to be used rotationally then I don't know if you'll ever see the truth.



We absolutely are talking about mages and warriors because we're evaluating the (false) statement that other classes in the game have talents that removecore rotation abilities. The perceived issue is that you don't like using an ability that's inherent to the base class a la Pyroblast or Rampage. The functional up-or-downsides of using any of the core abilities has nothing to do with the argument.

Arguing that Fel Rush should not be part of any Havoc DH's main rotation, regardless of build, is like arguing that a Fire Mage should be able to take a talent to remove the Hot Streak requirement from insta-Pyro or remove the Enrage mechanic from a Fury Warrior. In other words, Fel Rush is to Havoc as Fireball and Rampage are to Fire and Arms.



It does mean shut up and sit down and here's why: it's how the class is intended to be played. It's how Demon Hunter mains want to play the class. If you don't want to Fel Rush around you do not want to play a Demon Hunter. A person who does not want to use Rampage would never play a Fury Warrior and they certainly wouldn't try to petition Blizzard to try to bring a non-Rampage style into the game, risking that it accidentally becomes the go-to spec, ruining Rampage for all of the Fury Warriors that chose Fury because of the ability.

Similarly, you're asking Blizzard to fundamentally change the way DH plays for only a 5% DPS loss - a DPS loss that could easily become a DPS gain accidentally due to factors unforeseen by Blizzard. In addition, by refusing to play the game properly, you're hurting DH reputation beyond what was already going to be a terrible barrier to try to overcome. You're making it harder for Demon Hunters who play properly because it's easier for people to assume you're going to be garbage.

So yes, please do sit down and be quiet and reroll to something else and stop attempting to ruin the class for the rest of us.

No one said anything about taking Fel Rush away for everyone. The only thing anyone is saying is that it shouldn't rotationally core for everyone. The made up scenario where all DHs will be oppressed if the damage difference is only 5% is real cute though. Oh you absolutely right no class ever before has had such large sweeping changes to their core rotations ever. DKs definitely didn't go through some serious changes through out Wrath that changed their core rotational abilities kappa.

As far as sitting down and shutting up, or what? You gonna bitch some more about people petitioning Blizzard for a change? Anything but that pleaaase. Also to note, I love momo, I love fel rush. I feel like I have to reiterate this since so much of your word vomit indicates that I don't. I just simply believe DHs shouldn't have to Fel Rush as a core rotational ability. I will, cause I love it, but not everyone does and not everyone should have to in my estimation. It's fantastic you don't believe so and you do you. I will continue with my rhetoric though and you can deal with that however you like.

[Unholyground]

That's also a ridiculous idea. Are you seriously suggesting that Bloodthirst become a Fury Talent or Fireball become a Fire Mage talent? No? Then why are suggesting the Havoc equivalent become a talent?

Well then my first Idea is the only way to please everyone, you won't win this battle so go back to playing your old main.

[Hexxidecimal]

Doesn't affect me I perform the fel rush mobility combo fine and enjoy it immensely. Your problem is not my problem stop projecting everyone is as shit as you.

The fuck are you even...so do I? I seriously want to know how you got the idea from what I said that I didn't immensely enjoy Fel Rush Mobility combo from what I said. What I was referring to is no where near the argument that I didn't like Fel Rush. I'll tell you what your problem is, it's making some seriously crazy logical leaps.

The only thing I addressed in your post was the bolded part or did you just not at all look at my post?

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Well then my first Idea is the only way to please everyone, you won't win this battle so go back to playing your old main.

My idea is rather simple. Take some of the base damage off of Fel Rush and bake it into Fel Mastery. Boom, Fel Mastery becomes the talent to make Fel Rush rotational ability we both love and it becomes a button that can be used solely for mobility for those who don't want to use it rotationally. I would also buff the other talents in the same tier as well.

[Kainslife]

Well then my first Idea is the only way to please everyone, you won't win this battle so go back to playing your old main.

Unfortunately for you, it's more than obvious that my opinion is aligned with Blizzard's design goals so we've already "won". If Fel Rush was intended to be optional it wouldn't have gotten this far as a required ability regardless of talent choices.

DKs definitely didn't go through some serious changes through out Wrath that changed their core rotational abilities kappa.

I'm not too familiar, but I don't think DKs launched with any non-talent core rotation abilities that were unique in function. There is literally no other spec in the entire game that can even talent into an ability like Fel Rush, let alone use one baseline. A non-baseline Fel Rush would directly contradict Blizzard's statement that the entire reason there is only one DPS tree for DH is because there is absolutely zero bloat. The entire spec solely exists because of Fel Rush, and more abstractly, repositioning and skillshots as a main mechanic.

[Hexxidecimal]

Unfortunately for you, it's more than obvious that my opinion is aligned with Blizzard's design goals so we've already "won". If Fel Rush was intended to be optional it wouldn't have gotten this far as a required ability regardless of talent choices.



I'm not too familiar, but I don't think DKs launched with any non-talent core rotation abilities that were unique in function. There is literally no other spec in the entire game that can even talent into an ability like Fel Rush, let alone use one baseline. A non-baseline Fel Rush would directly contradict Blizzard's statement that the entire reason there is only one DPS tree for DH is because there is absolutely zero bloat. The entire spec solely exists because of Fel Rush, and more abstractly, repositioning and skillshots as a main mechanic.

Your just saying things again also you are just plain wrong on some things. Chi Torpedo used to be very very much like Fel Rush. Also Flying serpent kick Functions similarly. Also how would it contradict Blizzards statement? With the change I suggest you aren't adding any new abilities just pushing different ones. Again I am glad you can make a statement like this "The entire spec solely exists because of Fel Rush, and more abstractly, repositioning and skillshots as a main mechanic." and so wholly believe yourself. But forgive me if I don't view you as the mouth piece for Blizzard on all things Demon Hunter.

[Schizoide]

No, but no one in this thread is asking for variety.

Your camp is asking for a core, rotationally-mandatory ability to be made optional through talents

That is the definition of variety. English.

The false equivalencies to fireball are particularly hilarious. Please keep that up.

[Unholyground]

The fuck are you even...so do I? I seriously want to know how you got the idea from what I said that I didn't immensely enjoy Fel Rush Mobility combo from what I said. What I was referring to is no where near the argument that I didn't like Fel Rush. I'll tell you what your problem is, it's making some seriously crazy logical leaps.

The only thing I addressed in your post was the bolded part or did you just not at all look at my post?

- - - Updated - - -



My idea is rather simple. Take some of the base damage off of Fel Rush and bake it into Fel Mastery. Boom, Fel Mastery becomes the talent to make Fel Rush rotational ability we both love and it becomes a button that can be used solely for mobility for those who don't want to use it rotationally. I would also buff the other talents in the same tier as well.

My idea was to make Fel Rush do about 20% less damage if you are not moving and make it do a small 5 yard burst around you unless you are moving in which it will do what it does currently. That is a solid intelligent way to fix the issue for those who don't like the mandatory rush forward as it does currently, also this way at higher amounts of mastery you will be losing out on far more damage if you don't do it but you can still compete if you don't like to be moving as much.