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  1. #1141
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    I don't see anything inherently disrespectful about refusing to stand for a national anthem. It's just a song.
    Nationalism is idiotic, and if he chooses not to participate in it, that's his prerogative.

    I have never understood patriotism. Being prideful of a place just because you were born there seems both egotistical and stupid to me. It's not like you chose to be born a US citizen, or a Canadian citizen, or a Chinese citizen -- RNG chose it for you. I mean, how full of yourself do you have to be to think that just because you're from a place, that it's the best in the world?
    Well you probably don't understand nationalism or patriotism because you're Canadian. Just kidding, Canada is alright.

    But really though, he is being disrespectful. That's the exact reason why he isn't standing. And it's not just a song. It's the national anthem of my home. Sure, our country isn't perfect, but it's my home. It's not just where I was born, it's where I grew up. It's where I went to school. It's where all of my friends and family are. My country represents all of these things to me. I don't see how that's hard to understand. If someone didn't at least have a certain attachment to where they grew up, where their friends and family were, or where they went to school then I would probably assume that person didn't have a very good life.

    That being said, I think I can see what you mean to a degree. We shouldn't allow ourselves to be blinded by nationalism to the point where we let things slide that just shouldn't slide. And you're right, if he wants to be disrespectful by not standing for the national anthem that's his right. It's also my right to view his decision how I see fit and make judgments based on my personal opinions.

    And btw, nationalism/patriotism is not thinking your country is the best. It is merely being proud of your country.

  2. #1142
    Quote Originally Posted by Docturphil View Post
    Well you probably don't understand nationalism or patriotism because you're Canadian. Just kidding, Canada is alright.

    But really though, he is being disrespectful. That's the exact reason why he isn't standing. And it's not just a song. It's the national anthem of my home. Sure, our country isn't perfect, but it's my home. It's not just where I was born, it's where I grew up. It's where I went to school. It's where all of my friends and family are. My country represents all of these things to me. I don't see how that's hard to understand. If someone didn't at least have a certain attachment to where they grew up, where their friends and family were, or where they went to school then I would probably assume that person didn't have a very good life.

    That being said, I think I can see what you mean to a degree. We shouldn't allow ourselves to be blinded by nationalism to the point where we let things slide that just shouldn't slide. And you're right, if he wants to be disrespectful by not standing for the national anthem that's his right. It's also my right to view his decision how I see fit and make judgments based on my personal opinions.

    And btw, nationalism/patriotism is not thinking your country is the best. It is merely being proud of your country.
    I read a prepared statement by Benjamin Watson, african american nfl player, might be ex-nfl now but here it is, because it seemed to sum up a lot of your points:

    I will not have the option to kneel this Sunday while the National Anthem is being played. A week ago, in what would prove to be my last pre-game opportunity of this 2016 season, I stood with my right hand over my heart as the anthem played. And if I am fortunate enough to ever be dressed for another game day I imagine I would be doing the same thing I did in my last. Standing. Not because America is ALL I desire it to be because most assuredly it is not. Racism still stews, families are fractured, the unborn are trashed, schools are struggling, religious freedom is increasingly under attack, violence pollutes our cities and our suburbs, and there is a growing divide between law enforcement and the community.

    I stand, however, because I grew up in NAVY town USA and traveled overseas to support members of our armed forces who follow orders regardless of their personal sentiments. I stand for those who were forced to give their lives building the country that confined them to the tobacco fields and indigo plantations. I stand because as a child, I saw my father stand. A man who lived the tumultuous transition from "separate but equal" to the times surrounding the Civil Rights Act when angry people who held signs at his new school viscously screamed "NIGGER GO HOME!" I stand because on the contrary, no one held such a sign when I walked into my grade school.

    Before competition, as I stand in shoulder pads and cleats, my helmet in my left hand, adrenaline flowing and my heart raging under my right, I never forget the ills of America but for a moment I envision its potential, remember its prosperity and give thanks to God for the land He has placed me in and the people I love who live in it.
    I stand, because this mixed bag of evil and good is MY home. And because it's MY home my standing is a pledge to continue the fight against all injustice and preserve the greatest attributes of the country, including Colin Kaepernick's right to kneel.

    His actions and similar actions by figures of the past and present are a vital part of our journey and a key component of the equation for social change and should be respected as such. From the country's inception, such displays against the status quo are distinctly American. My hope, though, is that these actions bring more attention to the PROBLEM than to the PROTESTOR. And that ensuing dialog discover truth and that truth give birth to justice in legitimate situations where there is none. My hope is that in this time of toil and discord we collectively use our positions in public and private life to take responsibility for our role and collectively seek solutions, not because we HAVE to but because we CARE to. Sometimes listening is of greater value than speaking. As elusive an aspiration as it may be, our goal, especially in the arena of race, should continue to be to create an America where eventually everyone can, in good conscience, stand. No matter the historical context or the present circumstance that is the unity I, perhaps naively, imagine when I see our flag and listen to our anthem.

    Conflict when handled correctly strengthens. Conflict when mismanaged destroys.

  3. #1143
    The Lightbringer Clone's Avatar
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    The US unable to take criticism, nothing new.

  4. #1144
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    That's how some people pay respect. Not everyone.

    It seems rather strange to me that others would try to dictate how people should pay respect to the military. If they even want to.

    But again, if we start stigmatizing people to stand in order to pay respect, then it's no longer a choice.
    hey guys im a special snowflake

    i do it different than u guys

    im better than u

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    The US unable to take criticism, nothing new.
    its not called criticism when its a bold face lie.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Docturphil View Post

    Plus I've always hated Kaepernick anyways. He just seems like an arrogant ass hole. Although I suppose most quarterbacks probably are.
    NO

    not every QB runs around kissing their biceps. if you want a role model look at brady, hes quiet about his accolades and has plenty of them. sad what they tried to do to him over that stupid deflate gate, which you would have to be an idiot to believe it. but that is another story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Docturphil View Post
    And btw, nationalism/patriotism is not thinking your country is the best. It is merely being proud of your country.
    you have to understand euros are scared of a strong nation. that is why they formed the EU and hope someday they will be a real country/power in the world instead of the 2nd rate they are now.

  5. #1145
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xirrohon View Post
    Demand flag worship? Really?

    You stand up to pay respect to the people that have fought and died for your freedom, the country you live in. The flag is just a symbol. How dont you understand this? Seriously.

    Thats the ONLY way I can pay my respects? There is no other possible way to do this? Like thank the soldiers or salute the soldiers themselves?

  6. #1146
    It's spreading into the regular season. The massive triggering of the right-wing racist #alllivesmatter people is going to make this NFL season actually fun to watch.



    EDIT: better pic

  7. #1147
    Is there not a better way to try and make a point? I mean there's people fighting and dying for what we have today. At least show them respect. Freedom isn't free, it's cost thousands of lives, and yea America is far from perfect, but education is the only way to change that imo.

  8. #1148
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    I don't see anything inherently disrespectful about refusing to stand for a national anthem. It's just a song.
    Nationalism is idiotic, and if he chooses not to participate in it, that's his prerogative.

    I have never understood patriotism. Being prideful of a place just because you were born there seems both egotistical and stupid to me. It's not like you chose to be born a US citizen, or a Canadian citizen, or a Chinese citizen -- RNG chose it for you. I mean, how full of yourself do you have to be to think that just because you're from a place, that it's the best in the world?
    since when did patriotism = thinking your country is the best in the world? weird that you even put those two together.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeJoe View Post
    Thats the ONLY way I can pay my respects? There is no other possible way to do this? Like thank the soldiers or salute the soldiers themselves?
    u can pay respect in more ways than one? i dont get your response... either way they are disrespecting america and its sickening that in todays weak world we allow it. and i dont mean legally, i mean socially.

  9. #1149
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxymoronic View Post
    since when did patriotism = thinking your country is the best in the world? weird that you even put those two together.

    - - - Updated - - -



    u can pay respect in more ways than one? i dont get your response... either way they are disrespecting america and its sickening that in todays weak world we allow it. and i dont mean legally, i mean socially.
    I'm asking why I have to use that specific method. Why can't others be good enough?

    This whole disrespect thing is a joke, and subjective. He didn't disrespect me in any way.

  10. #1150
    Quote Originally Posted by Stonecloak View Post
    Is there not a better way to try and make a point? I mean there's people fighting and dying for what we have today. At least show them respect. Freedom isn't free, it's cost thousands of lives, and yea America is far from perfect, but education is the only way to change that imo.
    I'm pretty much of this same opinion. While I disagree with his personal view point, I think he should still be able to say it. That being said the way he is doing it disrespects far more than just the police. When you disrespect people outside of the group you are trying to protest, which in this case is *many* people, it seems pretty clear the guy isn't trying to go for some sort of meaningful discussion here.

  11. #1151
    LOL! "oppress" This dude doesn't know what the word "oppression" really means. 1865 was a long time ago and at this point so was 1968 when segregation ended. They have scholarships, they have race quota's (for those that don't actually have the actual score needed to get into a school), they have the same opportunity to attend the SAME classes I do, be taught by the SAME teachers that taught me, and yet they are oppressed?

    Well, when you A. Show up late (or not at all) to school B. Don't do your homework or just copy it from someone who does C. Just don't give a fuck...it is a safe bet that you won't amount to anything. The problem with a lot of minority's in America is they DON'T want to do what is required to live the life that they want to live. Don't wanna go to school and wanna walk around all day with your pants hanging down your ass? It isn't oppression that is keeping you down..it is your culture.

    If this little prick wants to actually "protest" then he should donate all of his money to "needy" minority families and move out of his house and back into the hood...oh right..."I'll do it if everyone else will do it first" is the mentality of today's liberal "protester" .

  12. #1152
    Quote Originally Posted by oxymoronic View Post
    since when did patriotism = thinking your country is the best in the world? weird that you even put those two together.


    u can pay respect in more ways than one? i dont get your response... either way they are disrespecting america and its sickening that in todays weak world we allow it. and i dont mean legally, i mean socially.
    it's pretty much a part of what it means to be a patriot. it's subjective but to say there is no connection between the two is disingenuous to say the least.

    lol, how dare he do what his god given right as an american allows him to do! cast him out! I swear the right wing PC police are as insufferable as their counterparts.

  13. #1153
    The Lightbringer Bosen's Avatar
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    He makes no difference in the issue being solved. It just brings another form of disrespect that offends some,so he's just adding to negativity. An ill-will magnet.

  14. #1154
    Quote Originally Posted by Xires View Post
    LOL! "oppress" This dude doesn't know what the word "oppression" really means. 1865 was a long time ago and at this point so was 1968 when segregation ended. They have scholarships, they have race quota's (for those that don't actually have the actual score needed to get into a school), they have the same opportunity to attend the SAME classes I do, be taught by the SAME teachers that taught me, and yet they are oppressed?

    Well, when you A. Show up late (or not at all) to school B. Don't do your homework or just copy it from someone who does C. Just don't give a fuck...it is a safe bet that you won't amount to anything. The problem with a lot of minority's in America is they DON'T want to do what is required to live the life that they want to live. Don't wanna go to school and wanna walk around all day with your pants hanging down your ass? It isn't oppression that is keeping you down..it is your culture.

    If this little prick wants to actually "protest" then he should donate all of his money to "needy" minority families and move out of his house and back into the hood...oh right..."I'll do it if everyone else will do it first" is the mentality of today's liberal "protester" .
    You say this, but think oppression is just about segregation, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Ah come on Granyala, there's several possible reasons for it. A few that would get us banned here like pointing out a deficite in his mental capacity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oktoberfest View Post
    Man I swear, every time someone uses the term 'Critical Thinking' I want to pop em in the mouth.

  15. #1155
    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    it's pretty much a part of what it means to be a patriot. it's subjective but to say there is no connection between the two is disingenuous to say the least.

    lol, how dare he do what his god given right as an american allows him to do! cast him out! I swear the right wing PC police are as insufferable as their counterparts.
    he should be socially ostracized. also im not right wing, im a moderate independent so get it right.

  16. #1156
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Woods View Post
    It's spreading into the regular season. The massive triggering of the right-wing racist #alllivesmatter people is going to make this NFL season actually fun to watch.
    All lives matter. If that's racist to you, you are the problem.

    In 2015, there were (est.) 42,000,000 blacks in this country. That same year, police killed 300 nationwide, primarily armed and attacking (shooting at the cops) or accidental (high on cocaine/meth and getting tazed.) That equates to 0.7 per 100,000 (or 7 per 1,000,000.) The 'open season on black men' narrative you and your degenerate kind have been pushing for years now is nothing but lies and misinformation.

  17. #1157
    The Lightbringer Issalice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21 View Post
    I read a prepared statement by Benjamin Watson, african american nfl player, might be ex-nfl now but here it is, because it seemed to sum up a lot of your points:

    I will not have the option to kneel this Sunday while the National Anthem is being played. A week ago, in what would prove to be my last pre-game opportunity of this 2016 season, I stood with my right hand over my heart as the anthem played. And if I am fortunate enough to ever be dressed for another game day I imagine I would be doing the same thing I did in my last. Standing. Not because America is ALL I desire it to be because most assuredly it is not. Racism still stews, families are fractured, the unborn are trashed, schools are struggling, religious freedom is increasingly under attack, violence pollutes our cities and our suburbs, and there is a growing divide between law enforcement and the community.

    I stand, however, because I grew up in NAVY town USA and traveled overseas to support members of our armed forces who follow orders regardless of their personal sentiments. I stand for those who were forced to give their lives building the country that confined them to the tobacco fields and indigo plantations. I stand because as a child, I saw my father stand. A man who lived the tumultuous transition from "separate but equal" to the times surrounding the Civil Rights Act when angry people who held signs at his new school viscously screamed "NIGGER GO HOME!" I stand because on the contrary, no one held such a sign when I walked into my grade school.

    Before competition, as I stand in shoulder pads and cleats, my helmet in my left hand, adrenaline flowing and my heart raging under my right, I never forget the ills of America but for a moment I envision its potential, remember its prosperity and give thanks to God for the land He has placed me in and the people I love who live in it.
    I stand, because this mixed bag of evil and good is MY home. And because it's MY home my standing is a pledge to continue the fight against all injustice and preserve the greatest attributes of the country, including Colin Kaepernick's right to kneel.

    His actions and similar actions by figures of the past and present are a vital part of our journey and a key component of the equation for social change and should be respected as such. From the country's inception, such displays against the status quo are distinctly American. My hope, though, is that these actions bring more attention to the PROBLEM than to the PROTESTOR. And that ensuing dialog discover truth and that truth give birth to justice in legitimate situations where there is none. My hope is that in this time of toil and discord we collectively use our positions in public and private life to take responsibility for our role and collectively seek solutions, not because we HAVE to but because we CARE to. Sometimes listening is of greater value than speaking. As elusive an aspiration as it may be, our goal, especially in the arena of race, should continue to be to create an America where eventually everyone can, in good conscience, stand. No matter the historical context or the present circumstance that is the unity I, perhaps naively, imagine when I see our flag and listen to our anthem.

    Conflict when handled correctly strengthens. Conflict when mismanaged destroys.
    I'm happy you shared this, very interesting perspective. I was reading through the comments on a few of the pages and was shocked to see so many people calling those that think Kaepernick is wrong racists, evil right wingers, etc. I personally do think that what he is doing is wrong and I am in no way a racist or an evil anything. I honestly don't think he is genuine or gives a damn about the racial issues. If he honestly did and this is all he is doing to show his support he is a moron. He has so many resources available and he chooses this....just this. Got himself some publicity but hasn't really done much good.

    As the statement from Benjamin Watson states although America isn't perfect it has come a long way. And the fact that he is even able to protest on such a large national stage proves the US is moving in a positive direction. If he feels there is something wrong with the country he calls home there are better ways to go about it. The anthem and flag stand for every right that he has enjoyed, including the right to protest.

    America doesn't need anymore division, people need to come together and work on the issues, stop pointing fingers and blaming eachother. That is literally what we teach children, to DISCUSS their differences and work them out. Not act out and throw tantrums for attention. Not sure how that belief makes me racist but whatever, I am completely over trying to jusitfy my beliefs on this forum at this point lol.

  18. #1158
    Quote Originally Posted by oxymoronic View Post
    he should be socially ostracized. also im not right wing, im a moderate independent so get it right.
    why do you hate free expression? if you were a moderate your response to this would be thus: I don't agree with his actions or his reasoning behind them but he is free to express himself in a legal manner. and you leave it at that, but no, you want to punish him because he upset you. I've NEVER seen you dole out criticism to the GOP/right so forgive me if I call bullshit.

  19. #1159
    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    why do you hate free expression? if you were a moderate your response to this would be thus: I don't agree with his actions or his reasoning behind them but he is free to express himself in a legal manner. and you leave it at that, but no, you want to punish him because he upset you. I've NEVER seen you dole out criticism to the GOP/right so forgive me if I call bullshit.
    huh? i dont hate free expression... i hate what he is expresses. much like if somebody was a white racist we would hate what he is expresses while not hating his right to freely express it. or at least that is how i feel. its hard for me to believe you have 10k posts on this forum and yet to master the basics.

    ps republicans/right wingers tend to be uneducated and slow people to me. we need a 3rd party in this country badly for level headed thinkers that are not wrapped up in the whole race thing.
    Last edited by oxymoronic; 2016-09-09 at 03:20 AM.

  20. #1160
    I think it's funny that a kid who's never been out of America thinks it's oh soooooo bad for minorities in the us.

    It's actually rather hilarious. You keep on protesting kid
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