Demon Blades

[Deleted]

So, do we have anyone that can confirm which will be better?


DB + Nemesis VS Prepared + Momentum

I don't mind either playstyle but as mentioned in pretty much every thread available online, Fel Barrage will be superior in both Mythical + dungeons as well as in all but 2 fights in the upcoming raid content. This is without knowing whats best between DB/Nemesis vs Prepared+ Momentum, only refering to the last row.
However, If DB is now generating faster recharging of Fel Barrage it should tip the scale in that favour rather due to only being a few % difference.




//GhazzyTV

[Algoma0]

You have two choices, either you can say "I don't care about numbers and I want to play what I enjoy" in which case you shouldn't care about what performs better, and by how much - or you can say "I do care about numbers" in which case it doesn't matter by how much prepared is better, you should use it anyway.

Saying stuff like "It's only better if you use it correctly" is absurd. Of course you compare talents assuming you use them correctly. If you want to perform the best DPS possible but can't correctly perform with a certain talent setup, learn it. It's not that difficult.

[Flumpus]

So, do we have anyone that can confirm which will be better?


DB + Nemesis VS Prepared + Momentum

I don't mind either playstyle but as mentioned in pretty much every thread available online, Fel Barrage will be superior in both Mythical + dungeons as well as in all but 2 fights in the upcoming raid content. This is without knowing whats best between DB/Nemesis vs Prepared+ Momentum, only refering to the last row.
However, If DB is now generating faster recharging of Fel Barrage it should tip the scale in that favour rather due to only being a few % difference.




//GhazzyTV

I still use DBlades along with Momentum.

That being said, I think the DBlades + Fel Barrage combo is just strong because it makes Haste valuable through two different channels, so the talents end up supporting one another stat-wise.

[Deleted]

I still use DBlades along with Momentum.

That being said, I think the DBlades + Fel Barrage combo is just strong because it makes Haste valuable through two different channels, so the talents end up supporting one another stat-wise.

That's the Point. I need to know if its superior in raids and if so, it would make the stat prio
Agility > Crit > Haste > Versaility > Mastery ?

[Flumpus]

That's the Point. I need to know if its superior in raids and if so, it would make the stat prio
Agility > Crit > Haste > Versaility > Mastery ?

Seems to be, yeah. Looking forward to raiding to see if it's the case

[Algoma0]

That's the Point. I need to know if its superior in raids and if so, it would make the stat prio
Agility > Crit > Haste > Versaility > Mastery ?

Prepared + Momentum is superior. You might use Chaos Blades instead of Fel Barrage for pure ST, which makes Haste better than Versatility. On most fights you should use Fel Barrage though, so Crit > Vers > Haste > Mastery is a good way to go. (vers might even overtake crit if you have too much crit, so look out for that)

[Deleted]

Prepared + Momentum is superior. You might use Chaos Blades instead of Fel Barrage for pure ST, which makes Haste better than Versatility. On most fights you should use Fel Barrage though, so Crit > Vers > Haste > Mastery is a good way to go. (vers might even overtake crit if you have too much crit, so look out for that)

Then again, how much crit are we looking for Before we have "too much crit" whats the "softcap"?
And how can you be so sure that Prepared + Momentum is better than DB + Nemesis, we have 0 proof of either being perfect. I would love to see it tested and simulated, also the value of Haste when we have DB with Fel Barrage charges getting refreshed.

[Algoma0]

Then again, how much crit are we looking for Before we have "too much crit" whats the "softcap"?
And how can you be so sure that Prepared + Momentum is better than DB + Nemesis, we have 0 proof of either being perfect. I would love to see it tested and simulated, also the value of Haste when we have DB with Fel Barrage charges getting refreshed.

You should just sim your character, see how much value each stat has. If vers is > crit, you have "too much crit". There is no actual softcap, it depends on your crit/versatility ratio.
How can I be sure that Prep/Momentum > DB/Nemesis: I simmed it.

[Deleted]

Did you take in to account Fel Barrage recharges in that sim? That's my entire Point. Not the actual differences between those talents per say, cause then Prep/mom will Always win. The question is in conjunction with Fel Barrage recharges if they will be performing better and/or Haste goes up to make them better at a certain Point of haste perhaps?

[Algoma0]

Did you take in to account Fel Barrage recharges in that sim? That's my entire Point. Not the actual differences between those talents per say, cause then Prep/mom will Always win. The question is in conjunction with Fel Barrage recharges if they will be performing better and/or Haste goes up to make them better at a certain Point of haste perhaps?

There is no evidence to suggest this is the case. But you can try to simulate with lots of haste instead of versatility and see where it takes you.

[Tekkommo]

I'm currently using Demon Blades in a Momentum build, I just find it a pain to spam Demon's Bite while rushing around everywhere. If it's proven to be better in raids, I'll adapt. If I come across a DH, with that build and destroys me in a dungeon, I'll probably change as well.

Using Demon Blades, I pretty much wreck every group I'm in, it's come to the point that when I do Mythics with guildies, they just say DHs are OP and need nerfed (I just think they are bad and need to play better). Fun fact, I'm the only DH raider in my guild.

[RedNight at MMOC]

My current setup is Fel Mastery, Demon Blades, Felblade, Soul Rending, Nemesis, Master of the Glaive, and Chaos Blades. A very unconventional build, I know, but I consistently pull the highest DPS in Heroic and Mythic Dungeons (about 275k, although that could be because Havoc is over-tuned). I tried out the Momentum build a few times and just could not get used to it, so I created this build and really love it.

[Schizoide]

You have two choices, either you can say "I don't care about numbers and I want to play what I enjoy" in which case you shouldn't care about what performs better, and by how much - or you can say "I do care about numbers" in which case it doesn't matter by how much prepared is better, you should use it anyway.

Wrong. I care about numbers, but I also care about my gameplay. If I prefer one playstyle to another, I'll weigh the potential performance gap and make a value decision.

Saying stuff like "It's only better if you use it correctly" is absurd. Of course you compare talents assuming you use them correctly. If you want to perform the best DPS possible but can't correctly perform with a certain talent setup, learn it. It's not that difficult.

Also wrong. Some abilities are very challenging to use like Simcraft. Maintaining Momentum uptime and using the right abilities inside the Momentum window while competently executing a raid encounter and not dying is definitely one of those.

[Algoma0]

Also wrong. Some abilities are very challenging to use like Simcraft. Maintaining Momentum uptime and using the right abilities inside the Momentum window while competently executing a raid encounter and not dying is definitely one of those.

But it really isnt challenging once you actually got used to it. Saying you care about numbers but a certain talent setup is too hard for you is a really shitty argument for using a suboptimal talent-setup. If you don't care about numbers that much anyway, fine, do whatever you want but "I wanna do top dps but this is too hard" is pretty ridiculous to me.

Wrong. I care about numbers, but I also care about my gameplay. If I prefer one playstyle to another, I'll weigh the potential performance gap and make a value decision.

Actually you're right, different people have different priorities.

[Schizoide]

Take a look at the Havoc simcraft APL, and check out how many decisions you need to make to get the numbers Simcraft puts out. You won't see anyone other than world progression raiders getting anywhere remotely near that performance. There are multiple split-second decisions to be made inside a 4s window with 60%+ uptime-- and getting that uptime isn't trivial either; you mess up a single vengeful retreat with throw glaive on CD and you're out of bounds.

I'm not saying "don't take Momentum"; it's still the best talent on the tier because Nemesis won't be used on AE/trash. But don't expect to get the same numbers as the sim. That's just not gonna happen.

[seraphbreak]

Sims are obviously taken with a grain of salt. For now, with only Mythic dungeons available, Fel Barrage is easily the better choice over Chaos Blades due to the amount of trash vs boss uptime that you have. AOE is king in dungeons. I've been doing Mythic dungeons at 840 ilvl (without 3rd relic) testing out the following builds:

Prepared, Momentum, Fel Barrage
Demon Blades, Momentum, Fel Barrage

Honestly, I haven't felt a noticeable difference between the two options. I've been reading conflicting Sims about prepared vs demon blades, some say the former is better, and some advocate for the latter.

Another open ended question- do you still use VR on cooldown with the demon blades spec? I am assuming yes because it still gives you momentum if you can position yourself correctly.

I plan on doing further real-time testing rather than Sims, especially for DH when you can easily mess up positioning on fel rush/VR and lose uptime.

[Schizoide]

Yes, you want to maximize your Momentum uptime.

Ultimately, Prepared and Demon Blades are competitive, within a couple percent at most. Take whichever talent you personally prefer. (Well, not Demonic Appetite. It's terrible unless you're solo.)