I just can't get behind fel rushing on rotation :(

[Not Againnn]

Except the old style (basically Fel Mastery baseline) made far more sense if that's what they were going for. Instead, they nerfed Fel Rush and made Fel Mastery give Fel Rush the old functionality.

that doesnt change the fact that even without fel mastery you still fel rush on cd?

[Bullettime]

I like and believe that Momentum and such are and should be the top, but I think people that believe the Fel Rush-Momentum setup being over 20% better in any situation is intended are going to be in for a rude awakening when the tuning pass hits.

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that doesnt change the fact that even without fel mastery you still fel rush on cd?

Except the nerfs seemingly were to push it away from that. They did a lot of half ass tuning at the end then decided to wait for live data. Almost every class and spec are dealing with some sort of similar bullshit currently, except like Enhancement and Unholy, and are waiting for the tuning pass.

[Not Againnn]

I like and believe that Momentum and such are and should be the top, but I think people that believe the Fel Rush-Momentum setup being over 20% better in any situation is intended are going to be in for a rude awakening when the tuning pass hits.

blizzard had like 1 year of beta/alpha to address this issue with momentum. the thing is, it rewards good gameplay and punishes bad players. if you want to not care, you can choose suboptimal talents, like with any other class in the game.

[Bullettime]

the problem again is merely the difference between the options.

The issue isn't even Momentum-Fel Rush's current strength as it is alternative options were kneejerk overnerfed to the point of being basically shit, pending live server data.

[Not Againnn]

the problem again is merely the difference between the options.

The issue isn't even Momentum-Fel Rush's current strength as it is alternative options were kneejerk overnerfed to the point of being basically shit, pending live server data.

demonic was straight up unfair. in pvp it was stupid op. they didnt really hit anything as much as they hit annihilate and chaos cleave.

[mitre27]

you can pick a different talent instead of complaining about it. but you dont lose anything by fel rushing on rotation

Not sure if dumb or just can't read.

"You can not apply your poison, you don't lose anything by not doing so"

That's effectively what you're saying, not fel rushing is a fucking huge dps loss.

blizzard had like 1 year of beta/alpha to address this issue with momentum. the thing is, it rewards good gameplay and punishes bad players. if you want to not care, you can choose suboptimal talents, like with any other class in the game.

This is a class that was designed to be easy to play (They even said it in the most recent Q&A before launch) and yet they force this playtyle with no alternative that is even close to viable, they wanted the skill ceiling to be low, and they failed at that, it's actually funny, when they try to design something simple they fail.

[Not Againnn]

Not sure if dumb or just can't read.

"You can not apply your poison, you don't lose anything by not doing so"

That's effectively what you're saying, not fel rushing is a fucking huge dps loss.




This is a class that was designed to be easy to play (They even said it in the most recent Q&A before launch) and yet they force this playtyle with no alternative that is even close to viable, they wanted the skill ceiling to be low, and they failed at that, it's actually funny, when they try to design something simple they fail.

it is easy to play, but its hard to play well.

thats what they were going for imo.

[lightofdawn]

Not sure if dumb or just can't read.

"You can not apply your poison, you don't lose anything by not doing so"

That's effectively what you're saying, not fel rushing is a fucking huge dps loss.




This is a class that was designed to be easy to play (They even said it in the most recent Q&A before launch) and yet they force this playtyle with no alternative that is even close to viable, they wanted the skill ceiling to be low, and they failed at that, it's actually funny, when they try to design something simple they fail.

as Not Againnn said above, i was saying if you're gonna bitch about it, dont do it.
you wont perform well at all, but i can assume that if fel rushing is a huge detriment to you that you're not performing well anyway.

to paraphrase a new friend of mine: "not sure if dumb or just cant play dh"

[Schizoide]

They said that Demon Hunters are a "simpler class" so the gap performance gap between casual and hardcore players should be small.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=254655.4...ble-august-9th

But it isn't small, it's 20%. Casual players, as we've seen several times in this very thread, don't use Fel Rush rotationally. Even after reading a thread like this one, they still won't use Fel Rush rotationally. They don't like it, so they won't do it. And their performance will suck, much more than a casual playing actual easy specs like Ret or BM. Havoc will get the old hunter rep; newbies who don't know how to play, doing crap damage.

Havoc is a failure in both marketing and design. They told people it was easy to play and player skill would have low impact. These things are simply not true.

[mitre27]

it is easy to play, but its hard to play well.

thats what they were going for imo.

The skill ceiling was said to be low, that it was said in the most recent Q&A, and it's not.

I've gotten used to fel rushing now, but i can see it being a real pain to have my dps tied to the use of fel rush in raids, there will be times where you just plain can't fel rush enough.

Sure there may be few in current tier, but that's not to say there won't be in future, and let's be honest, being gimped on one fight in a raid is bad enough.

as Not Againnn said above, i was saying if you're gonna bitch about it, dont do it.
you wont perform well at all, but i can assume that if fel rushing is a huge detriment to you that you're not performing well anyway.

to paraphrase a new friend of mine: "not sure if dumb or just cant play dh"

If that was what you were saying, then say that, saying " but you dont lose anything by fel rushing on rotation" is stupid and wrong.


Everyone that is diehard for fel rushing and is against any chance of another path needs a slap IMHO, especially since nobody is arguing that fel rushing on rotation shouldn't be the best spec, but there SHOULD BE AN ALTERNATIVE, especially on a class that was supposed to be easy to pickup and play, as well as having a low skill cap.

[Hexxidecimal]

They had months of alpha and beta to change it. The difference between DKs and monks/DH is that with DK blizz actively listened to everything the community said during beta and that resulted in a horribly OP class rather than going with their original design goals. They've stated this publicly.

I really don't understand your point. Are you saying that "wasn't changed in beta so it won't ever be changed"? Do you know how utterly ridiculous that sounds? Balance changes happen all the time. Design vision, paradigm shifts in thought etc etc. Listen, I am not stupid alright, I don't expect it to be changed now, or even soon. It could be months or years before Blizz gets around to it IF they even feel they need to.

Also you really shouldn't point at beta or alpha, demon hunters have gone through so pretty big changes since then. Fel Rush wasn't always a rotational ability.

But if that isn't enough for you they have already said that iterations and changes will continue to happen and they aren't done yet. Doesn't matter why they DKs wrong at first, point is mistakes were made and can still be made. They may or may not want Fel Rush to be as dominant as it is. It's hard to tell at the moment. My point is anyone who claims that it's sooooo obvious and that there are TONS of evidence are just in the dark as the rest of us. There is evidence that could go in favor of that, there is also a history showing sometimes shit is just over tuned. We just have to wait and see. Personally I think that making Fel Rush a rotational ability is fine, as long as we have a slightly lower DPS option otherwise.

[Novakhoro]

Git. Gud.
Oh yea, /10char

[Not Againnn]

I really don't understand your point. Are you saying that "wasn't changed in beta so it won't ever be changed"? Do you know how utterly ridiculous that sounds? Balance changes happen all the time. Design vision, paradigm shifts in thought etc etc. Listen, I am not stupid alright, I don't expect it to be changed now, or even soon. It could be months or years before Blizz gets around to it IF they even feel they need to.

Also you really shouldn't point at beta or alpha, demon hunters have gone through so pretty big changes since then. Fel Rush wasn't always a rotational ability.

But if that isn't enough for you they have already said that iterations and changes will continue to happen and they aren't done yet. Doesn't matter why they DKs wrong at first, point is mistakes were made and can still be made. They may or may not want Fel Rush to be as dominant as it is. It's hard to tell at the moment. My point is anyone who claims that it's sooooo obvious and that there are TONS of evidence are just in the dark as the rest of us. There is evidence that could go in favor of that, there is also a history showing sometimes shit is just over tuned. We just have to wait and see. Personally I think that making Fel Rush a rotational ability is fine, as long as we have a slightly lower DPS option otherwise.

fel rush WAS ALWAYS rotational dude.

wtf

[Hexxidecimal]

as Not Againnn said above, i was saying if you're gonna bitch about it, dont do it.
you wont perform well at all, but i can assume that if fel rushing is a huge detriment to you that you're not performing well anyway.

to paraphrase a new friend of mine: "not sure if dumb or just cant play dh"

You're making some pretty big assumptions about peoples motivations. Myself and I think Schizoide enjoy Fel Rush. Just because I enjoy doesn't mean I think it's designed well. It caters specifically to me and people like me. Sure we could say, "GO PLAY A ROGUE". Hell I will tell people that now.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE TO RE-POSITION ROTATIONALLY DO NOT PLAY A HAVOC DEMON HUNTER

That doesn't mean I won't give feedback on what I perceive to be issues with the class. Fel Rush is just too damn strong and it causes a pigeon holing issue where a Fel Rush centric build is the only viable option. That isn't good design. Though no one should hold their breath on any sort of change. If you currently don't like it, you probably won't for some time to come.

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fel rush WAS ALWAYS rotational dude.

wtf

Well I wasn't in beta/alpha long enough to say with any amount of authority. Simply quoting folks who had been in since Alpha. But since I know them and trust them, I will believe them over your claim.

[Not Againnn]

You're making some pretty big assumptions about peoples motivations. Myself and I think Schizoide enjoy Fel Rush. Just because I enjoy doesn't mean I think it's designed well. It caters specifically to me and people like me. Sure we could say, "GO PLAY A ROGUE". Hell I will tell people that now.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE TO RE-POSITION ROTATIONALLY DO NOT PLAY A HAVOC DEMON HUNTER

That doesn't mean I won't give feedback on what I perceive to be issues with the class. Fel Rush is just too damn strong and it causes a pigeon holing issue where a Fel Rush centric build is the only viable option. That isn't good design. Though no one should hold their breath on any sort of change. If you currently don't like it, you probably won't for some time to come.

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Well I wasn't in beta/alpha long enough to say with any amount of authority. Simply quoting folks who had been in since Alpha. But since I know them and trust them, I will believe them over your claim.

ive been maining dh since alpha. fel rush was our only fury builder at one point...

[Nezia]

Well I wasn't in beta/alpha long enough to say with any amount of authority. Simply quoting folks who had been in since Alpha. But since I know them and trust them, I will believe them over your claim.

Actually during a long time in alpha/beta fel rush did not feel mandatory because eye beam was just too damn strong, it would deal 40~50% of your total damage on single target and easily 80%+ on aoe. So anything you did did not count much as long as you pressed eye beam on cd.

[Rocketsauce]

I can't wait for all the melee friendly mythic raid bosses this expansion. Blizzard is known for the ultra forgiving melee mechanics, so naturally a class that is supposedly bound to a movement ability will have just a wonderful time.

There will be plenty of room to zip to and fro when the floor is covered in fire, or when the hitbox on a raid boss is so tiny ANY tank movement causes the boss to spin and move 10 feet (Hi Velhari).

Or those sweet bosses that are on the side of a cliff, where rushing one direction leads directly to your demise and the other direction leads right into a cleave or slam.

Good times man, good times.

[Not Againnn]

I can't wait for all the melee friendly mythic raid bosses this expansion. Blizzard is known for the ultra forgiving melee mechanics, so naturally a class that is supposedly bound to a movement ability will have just a wonderful time.

There will be plenty of room to zip to and fro when the floor is covered in fire, or when the hitbox on a raid boss is so tiny ANY tank movement causes the boss to spin and move 10 feet (Hi Velhari).

Or those sweet bosses that are on the side of a cliff, where rushing one direction leads directly to your demise and the other direction leads right into a cleave or slam.

Good times man, good times.

if you have that much issue staying alive on fights like these, maybe dh isnt the class for you.

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Actually during a long time in alpha/beta fel rush did not feel mandatory because eye beam was just too damn strong, it would deal 40~50% of your total damage on single target and easily 80%+ on aoe. So anything you did did not count much as long as you pressed eye beam on cd.

that isnt true. you eye beamed to activate demonic and then annihilate did your dps. they did nerf eye beam but because of the legendary.

[Wingwraith]

if you have that much issue staying alive on fights like these, maybe dh isnt the class for you.

Well, clearly us mere mortals don't deserve to be in your presence...

[Not Againnn]

Well, clearly us mere mortals don't deserve to be in your presence...

never had any of these issues in mythic hfc tbh. raid testing on beta was fine as well. if there WAS any issue, you would already know about it because there would be backlash after the testing.