Unhappy with Warlocks? Use the upcoming Dev Q&A #LegionQA

[Lucrece]

They said they wanted to doubled down on warlock tankiness, yet weeks before release on beta they destroyed affliction warlocks in pvp because they were the only caster that could survive being trained 24/7 by a melee cleave.

They need to make up their minds. Warlock will never have enough tankiness compared to a rogue or mage because immunity to a one shot raid mechanic is immensely superior to even having 100% more effective HP as many of these mechanics will kill you more than twice over, or even if you survive the hit the trigger kills your allies instead.

[Neevs]

Why exactly should it be the community's job to tell developers how to fix shit they broke?

Okay, i never said that we should tell em how to fix it..

Not usefull posts that direct issues or state the mechanical issues..Combined with the fact that people are writing stuff that aint true, like we're doing 10-50% of the other classes damage or that we're useless to bring to mythic or heroic Dungeons just adds up to blizzard being overfloated with useless posts and they're gonna have to find a needle in a haystack to find any worthwhile posts..

What i meant was simply that people Should write posts that adressed the issues we've got, and adressed the Mechanical problems of our specs.
But people posted so many "bad/useless" posts, that blizzard wouldn't see and talk about the "good posts"

And I'd say that Ion Hazzikostas Just proved my point.. he said there was 95% posts they couldn't use, but then ofc missed the 5% usefull posts apperantly..

That he only adressed the ramp up time issues when it comes to PVP and stated the issues with our mobility wasn't an issue is imo baffling tho..
Yes 3 should shards will fix it some for when we start a fight.. but what about the ramp up time issue when it comes to new spawning adds, or after heavy movement?
Also if he wants our class to have low mobility, the ramp up time issue gets more severe.. If we should have low mobility, we kinda need high dmg while we don't have to move and not have such a high ramp up time..

[Dwill]

Not to be too blunt, but you were probably expecting too much. I mean, they devoted a whole long segment just to Warlocks. Did you want specifics? Those were never on the table. A Twitch Q&A is the wrong forum and it's way too early to get them anyway. They've got a whole process of internal design and testing to go through, and that takes time. Anything specific said now would be subject to massive change, and you know how players take any unqualified Dev statement as a sacred oath signed in blood.

They asked for feedback. We gave feedback, which has now trailed off into mindless yelling and /signed spam. Now they take that feedback and try to cook up some useful changes to address it. We'll probably see the first draft of those changes when the 7.1 PTR goes up.

You're probably correct that I was expecting too much and I fully understand the inner working of a company like Blizzard (not to the same scale obviously). I also agree that them saying that certain change would be made could backfire horribly.

With that said though, it just feel like too much was skimmed over (next to no acknowledgment about Affliction's many issues for example) but again, this wasn't a Warlock Q&A so it's understandable but it still leaves me underwhelmed as a whole.

[Lisa Frank Succubus]

Not to be too blunt, but you were probably expecting too much. I mean, they devoted a whole long segment just to Warlocks. Did you want specifics? Those were never on the table. A Twitch Q&A is the wrong forum and it's way too early to get them anyway. They've got a whole process of internal design and testing to go through, and that takes time. Anything specific said now would be subject to massive change, and you know how players take any unqualified Dev statement as a sacred oath signed in blood.

They asked for feedback. We gave feedback, which has now trailed off into mindless yelling and /signed spam. Now they take that feedback and try to cook up some useful changes to address it. We'll probably see the first draft of those changes when the 7.1 PTR goes up.

To be honest, if you referring to the offical forum threads, it was always mindless yelling/threats and ultimatums (I"M DELETING MY WARLOCK!!), there's a lot of detailed feedback but it was also lost in a sea of doom saying. I think the best thing to do in this case would be to create a thread but have someone moderate it very strictly where people can only post actual feedback with a neutral tone and less fueled by pure rage and other emotions. People were told to offer feedback but lots of posters were/are channeling their frustrations/emotions more than anything else.

Many players are angry or upset but there's just nothing accomplished by talking about how blizz hates warlocks, how the class is worthless garbage and you have to re-roll now etc. Skipping all of that and just making a list of things you feel are problems, like "Demonology has too much of a ramp up time because..."

Another problem is that I think quite a few posts were people who expected complete overhauls and major class changes with a "Christmas List" of stuff they wanted. That's just not going to happen and Ion even says something to that effect.

[Atreyis]

Didn't address Afflictions' 2 garbage gold traits... =(

[Deleted]

At least they acknowledged there is a real problem, whiv both surprised me (as they usually don't) but not (because the issues are so glaring it's hard to see how they could actually avoid mentioning them)

We won;t get a mechanics change, just some numbers tweaking at this point.

The most disappointing bit was "raid bosses are longer fights so it won''t matter so much" but this is tantmount to saying you're going to suck if you're not in raids or Mythic +

Which means, of course, the whole gearing up process to get to Mythic+ and raids will remain pretty much as painful as ever,and groups doing fast gearing runs won'twant you.

It truly baffled me how warlocks could live in this state after months and months of testing and all the feedback

- - - Updated - - -

Didn't address Afflictions' 2 garbage gold traits... =(

Won;t change until 7.1

[Maddik]

Watcher just posted this in the official forum:

"One thing that I should have stressed more in discussing warlocks in the Q&A is that we haven't done any class/spec numerical-balance hotfixes yet, for anyone. Initial efforts have been focused on fixing bugs (where possible without waiting for a new patch), and gathering data. The basic concern of "our DPS is low" is one that we can and will address. We just need more data from the live environment, from all 24 DPS specs, in order to inform the exact changes we'll be making.

But warlocks should absolutely be numerically competitive with other damage-dealers, and we'll make sure that's the case.

The Soul Shard change got a lot of attention just because it's something that we can handle via hotfix. Concerns such as artifact trait design, visual issues, and rotational flow could only be tackled via a future patch, and are a topic of discussion among the class team.

Your feedback is being read and discussed, and threads like http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748795049 are excellent. If it sounded like I was saying we were literally unable to find any quality feedback, that certainly wasn't my intent. I understand frustration when it seems like valid concerns are being ignored, but constructive feedback is always more helpful. We both want the same thing here: for you to have fun playing your class."

[helic]

What are the DPS numbers people are pulling down with each spec in heroics/mythics? I only play aff and at my top end best on a normal boss fight I can hit 150k dps.

[TheCookieGod]

What are the DPS numbers people are pulling down with each spec in heroics/mythics? I only play aff and at my top end best on a normal boss fight I can hit 150k dps.

As destruction with an 844ilvl with 26% haste

On boss fights, I usually average 200k give or take 10k.

Trash packs are more volatile depending on how often I can get shards to regenerate for RoF, but generally 250k, pushing 300-350k if RNG is really with me on a pull.

[Deleted]

As destruction with an 844ilvl with 26% haste

On boss fights, I usually average 200k give or take 10k.

Trash packs are more volatile depending on how often I can get shards to regenerate for RoF, but generally 250k, pushing 300-350k if RNG is really with me on a pull.

for me roughly the same (I am also at ilvl 845 [no legendary]). slightly lower single target dps because I am at 14% haste due to items having mastery and crit instead of haste.
I love haste. I wish I could trade all my mastery for haste.

One problem I have is when a single target fight last very long I notice how much I spam incinerate instead of doing something worthwhile. my dps starts to go down then.


One amazing change that I think would make destro much better would be Incinerate critical hits giving a sould shard. that would make crit very good give us a much more engaging rotation.

[Cainium]

Didn't address Afflictions' 2 garbage gold traits... =(

This is part of "conflicting feedback". For me, Affliction has one garbage gold trait, and this is Harvester of Souls.

Why? Soulflame provides awesome burst AoE, just the timing of the explosion may need some adjustments. Wrath of Consumption helps affliction a lot with cleave-style fights where adds don't live long enough to be "worth" dotting up, but are alive for a reasonable amount of time. Just one DoT is enough to increase our damage significantly for after the adds died, so we can profit from them even if our DoTs cant do their full damage.

Harvester of Souls on the other side is "pick and forget". It doesn't really help us in any kind of fight where we struggle, it's no buff/stacks to monitor, it brings nothing to our gameplay. Its just a plain damage increase on corruption and a little bit of self healing. The trait could even read "Increases the damage of corruption by X% and Corruption now heals you for Y% of damage done per tick", and would be the same, except less RNG involved. I don't think such stuff deserves to be a gold trait. Should be swapped with Compound Horror, Fatal Echos or get a complete rework.

[Jessicka]

This is part of "conflicting feedback". For me, Affliction has one garbage gold trait, and this is Harvester of Souls.

Why? Soulflame provides awesome burst AoE, just the timing of the explosion may need some adjustments. Wrath of Consumption helps affliction a lot with cleave-style fights where adds don't live long enough to be "worth" dotting up, but are alive for a reasonable amount of time. Just one DoT is enough to increase our damage significantly for after the adds died, so we can profit from them even if our DoTs cant do their full damage.

Harvester of Souls on the other side is "pick and forget". It doesn't really help us in any kind of fight where we struggle, it's no buff/stacks to monitor, it brings nothing to our gameplay. Its just a plain damage increase on corruption and a little bit of self healing. The trait could even read "Increases the damage of corruption by X% and Corruption now heals you for Y% of damage done per tick", and would be the same, except less RNG involved. I don't think such stuff deserves to be a gold trait. Should be swapped with Compound Horror, Fatal Echos or get a complete rework.

I'd contest that we already have more than enough buff stacks to monitor; that there are already so many is a major contributor to our glacial ramp up pace.

[Portus]

So they remove multistrike for everyone because it felt too much like a second crit, but it's okay for destro locks to have it on mastery. Hilarious.

[Jessicka]

So they remove multistrike for everyone because it felt too much like a second crit, but it's okay for destro locks to have it on mastery. Hilarious.

Think Elemental's Mastery is literally Multistrike.

[Nadiru]

So they remove multistrike for everyone because it felt too much like a second crit, but it's okay for destro locks to have it on mastery. Hilarious.

Chaotic Energies isn't Multistrike, it's Versatility except worse.

[Cainium]

I'd contest that we already have more than enough buff stacks to monitor; that there are already so many is a major contributor to our glacial ramp up pace.

Yes, that's right. But there are other things that they could have come up with that could affect our gameplay. Thats why i mentioned that stuff like Compound Horror would deserve that spot more. Since the trait is named "Harvester of souls" it could be something like "Whenever a target dies while reap soul is active it's duration is extended for X sec, to a maximum of Y sec", or "Whenever you activate Reap Soul you gain a Soul Shard for X souls consumed". There are so many options....

[Deleted]

There are hundreds of threads on both EU and US forums, and thousands of posts describing in detail what is so fundamentally broken with warlocks. Blizzard don't give a flying faq about warlocks, and you conspiracy nuts that say they have a grudge against us are right.

[Portus]

Chaotic Energies isn't Multistrike, it's Versatility except worse.

Not saying myself that it works like multistrike. Referring to what Ion said regarding destro mastery being almost like a second crit, which was the reason they removed multistrike in the first place. The basic concept for our mastery is indeed like a random versatility stat.
Considering how most people feel about versatility, destro's mastery having a wide range of damage doesn't help. Sure, they can say the numbers will average out in the long run, but people will naturally notice more when they get really unlucky, despite doing everything perfectly, which feels extremely unrewarding and frustrating.

[bio347]

which was the reason they removed multistrike in the first place.

That's not the ONLY reason that multistrike was removed, though. In fact, it's probably the lesser of the reasons.

It was explained to us that one of the major reasons multistrike was removed was because it was exacerbating the multiplicative effect of secondary stats, which helped cause the ridiculous lategame scaling that WoD experienced. Destruction's mastery being similar to multistrike (or elemental's mastery literally being multistrike) doesn't run into this principle, obviously, because it's not a fifth secondary.

I get that the whole explanation isn't convenient for your narrative, but purposefully ignoring part of the picture to push an agenda is, quite literally, part of the "poor feedback" problem going around today.

[lockybalboa]

Ha, knew we would get shafted again. Thousands of threads stating what's wrong with locks and many with suggestions on how to fix it, and Ion says he can't find anything helpful. Yeah right f*** off. Bet if it was one of the more popular classes like mages and hunters they would definitely give some s*** about what people say.