No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[MasterHamster]

One might have thought there'd be a lot more activity in this thread, and on the official forums if flight was that important.

Sadly for fling fanatics, 99% doesn't give a flying fuck as long as theres content worth striving for, and use the travel options they have available instead of going to the forums to cry about not having flying. Especially how much arguing there is that polls doesnt matter. Threads doesnt matter. Only people whining about lack of flight matter.

No worries Mafic, sooner or later you'll have your "riot".
Sadly, Legion has endgame content, while WoD didn't. So good luck rallying the cause.

You've lost.

[Elim Garak]

Clearly you meant less than 40%, because at the beginning of wod there were 10m subs. Less than 4m playing legion now.

Pyrrhic victory celebration much?

[MasterHamster]

Clearly you meant less than 40%, because at the beginning of wod there were 10m subs. Less than 4m playing legion now.

Pyrrhic victory celebration much?

Lol.

I'm sorry it hurts so much to know that Legion has longevity which WoD didn't.

[Connll]

Seeing how the whole flight debacle was non-existant until he (Afrasiabi) made his comments about it in that interview prior to WoD's release (it was in the OP of the 20k page shitstorm thread), I can see how that poster would draw that conclusion. That said, correlation isn't causation, so unless someone who was privvy to boardroom meetings or such decides to chime in, we'll never know if it was his idea or not.

Of that, I am aware. However, I got the impression Clevin has other reasons for his dislike.

I could be wrong, obviously, so I decided to ask.

[Mafic]

One might have thought there'd be a lot more activity in this thread, and on the official forums if flight was that important.

Sadly for fling fanatics, 99% doesn't give a flying fuck as long as theres content worth striving for, and use the travel options they have available instead of going to the forums to cry about not having flying. Especially how much arguing there is that polls doesnt matter. Threads doesnt matter. Only people whining about lack of flight matter.

No worries Mafic, sooner or later you'll have your "riot".
Sadly, Legion has endgame content, while WoD didn't. So good luck rallying the cause.

You've lost.

I provided link already and you ignored it. More threads popped up int the last 72 hours and your search fu is still weak.

Either you are too tired to look up the threads yourself or you have already lost the argument. I suspect it is a combination of both.

As for the tsunami of tears it hasn't hit the 30 day mark yet or even the the two month mark which is what happened with WoD. When patch 7.1 goes on PTR and players realize that there is no flying part 2 then you will see real backlash,

In summary, your inability to find threads shows a confirmation bias or the lack of effort.

[Elim Garak]

Lol.

I'm sorry it hurts so much to know that Legion has longevity which WoD didn't.

It will end in two years like WoD and there will be a year long drought at the end like ever before, how about them hurts now?

[Connll]

Clearly you meant less than 40%, because at the beginning of wod there were 10m subs. Less than 4m playing legion now.

Pyrrhic victory celebration much?

To a non-insignificant number of anti-fliers (just take a look to the many who get in here, throw a one-liner and go away), getting pro-fliers to leave the game is a victory in itself.

[MasterHamster]

I provided link already and you ignored it. More threads popped up int the last 72 hours and your search fu is still weak.

Either you are too tired to look up the threads yourself or you have already lost the argument. I suspect it is a combination of both.

As for the tsunami of tears it hasn't hit the 30 day mark yet or even the the two month mark which is what happened with WoD. When patch 7.1 goes on PTR and players realize that there is no flying part 2 then you will see real backlash,

In summary, your inability to find threads shows a confirmation bias or the lack of effort.

Does it hurt to know that a majority of people doesn't care about flight anywhere near as much as you do?

[Mafic]

^

I'll ignore your insults. I've found out it's difficult for some people to discuss without insulting, whatever.

I am not anti-flying. This whole topic is very subjective. It's not my problem if you're grouping me with some people that wish you ill, because I don't wish anyone ill.

Of course it's sad to wish someone bad things. Are you kidding me? There is no fence here, there are just people who are assholes and people who aren't. Part of which are you?

You can't claim indifference when your arguments don't hold up to scrutiny in regards to flying impacting MMO interactions. So where are the examples? I provided examples as to why flying promotes MMO interaction as another poster requested from me and obliged respectfully.

But you choose to throw out arguments and then not defend them when challenged? If you want to be taken seriously be ready to defend your arguments with opinions and facts of your own.

- - - Updated - - -

Does it hurt to know that a majority of people doesn't care about flight anywhere near as much as you do?

The majority of people wanted flight which is why it was never removed. As for my feelings, why would I care about what other people do? My goal is my personal fun if and when flight returns.

You are projecting your feelings about this, because we do not reciprocate the joy and exuberance about Legion. To me, Legion is low grade expansion on par with Cata and slightly better than WoD. But that is assuming it is supported beyond patch 7.2 and there is no long content draught.

In other words, you have no argument other than to use emotional appeal.

My argument is simple: When and how can flight be completed and what is the time table or plan? Everything else is academic.

[SirCowdog]

One might have thought there'd be a lot more activity in this thread, and on the official forums if flight was that important.

This is the most disingenuous, narrow-sighted tripe. It's only in the second week after launch, and the content is still new and fresh. OF COURSE there isn't going to be much uproar yet.

We ALL knew it was going to be like this. Wait until a couple months from now and we'll start seeing what the reactions really are.

[Connll]

This is the most disingenuous, narrow-sighted tripe. It's only in the second week after launch, and the content is still new and fresh. OF COURSE there isn't going to be much uproar yet.

We ALL knew it was going to be like this. Wait until a couple months from now and we'll start seeing what the reactions really are.

Questionable.

Considering we haven´t even hit the 2-weeks mark, I´d say that the complaints are quite significant.

[MasterHamster]

This is the most disingenuous, narrow-sighted tripe. It's only in the second week after launch, and the content is still new and fresh. OF COURSE there isn't going to be much uproar yet.

We ALL knew it was going to be like this. Wait until a couple months from now and we'll start seeing what the reactions really are.

Rofl.
Strange, considering that by the time WoD had been out a week, there was megathreads regarding flight already. And now, when Legion HAS endgame content for non-raiders, theres almost none to be found. It's as if Legion hasn't made the same mistakes as WoD did.
Mistakes I've tried to discuss plenty of times in my post-history.

Must be painful to realize that the major source of complaints is lack of content, not the lack of godmode transportation.

But then again, it's obvious you'll spend the next 2 years complaining about Legion regardless, so what does it matter?

[Mafic]

With flying mounts you spent around the same time on the ground doing content as you do now. The difference is that with flying mounts, the moment you were done with that, you would hop on your mount and fly off the ground, as would everyone else. It trivialized travel in the world, there might as well just have been portals to and from every quests or outdoor boss. all the roads and areas between content was empty and barren.

You have extra time to do more ground content because of flying mounts. You left off the big perk of flying mounts versus ground mounts, and if you have 2 hours of play you can squeeze in more with a flying mount than a ground mount. Moving on.

"You are more likely to help someone on the other side of the zone with a flying mount or even a guild member" -
Who are these magical people that helped others when someone asked to come and help them? No one fucking did that. I used to ask in chat if people wanted to do group quests together or help me with them, but no one fucking ever answered. And these days you don't even need to ask for help because all outdoor content is designed to be solo'd, or the game will automatically phase you in with players for the world quests that need you to group.

My guild always requested help, and I always helped players in world PVP encounters. If I was stuck on ground mount in High Mountain I am not taking a flight path to go to the other side of Broken Isles to help a guild member.

"You are also more likely to explore and use your primary professions or even archaeology" -
Flying mounts made herbing/mining easy, sure. But there is no benefit to the community aspect of WoW by having players plob down out of the sky, mine a node, and immediately plob back up into the sky. And really, this same issues also applied to all the outdoor content like the first issue you mentioned.

There is a community aspect with players flying around as nodes now are shared. Archaeology with a friend is actually really fun but it is designed with flying in mind as they still haven't adjusted Archaeology to be done without flying mounts.

As for outdoor content being trivial, soloable, and most of the relevant content being gated behind instances...of course! That is the point pro flyers have been arguing for the last two years +. The argument being if the world content is trivial and not important in the grand scheme of things why gate flying or restrict it till the end of the expansion? If the best gear is in instances like raids, rated BG's/arenas, etc why not allow flying mounts to be used even early in the expansion?

[Thimagryn]

You can't claim indifference when your arguments don't hold up to scrutiny in regards to flying impacting MMO interactions. So where are the examples? I provided examples as to why flying promotes MMO interaction as another poster requested from me and obliged respectfully.

Those examples were about as weak as saying Garrisons impact MMO interactions because they had invasions which you could invite people to help you fight off. The example of helping someone in the world is an exception to the fact that the means of travel is designed to avoid interactions rather than promote them. Flight is a convenience that benefits the individual and removes them from the rest of the world. The choice to interact with others is done regardless of flight, just like the choice to invite people into your garrisons. You chose to dismount and help that person out in the world, which is no different than if you were to ride up to them on ground mount and help them.

Using the example that you're on a ground mount on the side of a hill makes it difficult to help people is an excuse, not a reason. If you're out to help someone you cross by in your travels and decide not to because you feel ground travel 'takes too long and isn't worth your time dismounting' then that's your choice to not interact. If you feel that flight does, then that's a personal opinion, not an objective statement on the effects of flight. It's a placebo effect.

It's similar to how you might see something on the Auction Hall for 3X the price in silver is too expensive, but think nothing about dropping a couple thousand gold on something else. It's not a problem with the system, it's a disparity in perception of value. You feel you are interacting with the world more because you think flying saves you time, when in truth interacting with the world has nothing to do with the time you saved on travel. In this case, you are basing the choice to help or not help someone on using time as the perceived value. Flight doesn't promote the actual interactivity, your personal perception of 'saving time' does. In this scenario, interaction in the world is perceived as 'wasting time' because you are valuing it less than getting from point A to point B.

Thus flight is actually a bad thing for social interaction because its convenience promotes a goal oriented travel mentality, effectively lessening the value of world interaction. If you drove everywhere, you are less likely to stop and smell the roses than if you travelled by means of walking and transit. Just because you feel you saved time in your travel doesn't make it more likely for you to spend that time back on world interaction. Every example you've brought up about flight-based world interaction has been an exception to all the world interaction it already disregarded.

[SirCowdog]

Rofl.
Strange, considering that by the time WoD had been out a week, there was megathreads regarding flight already.

You know, I started to write a reply, then I realized that you're just here to stir things up instead of having a real conversation.

[Mafic]

You know, I started to write a reply, then I realized that you're just here to stir things up instead of having a real conversation.

Yeah it is best to just put that poster on ignore. Sadly I was hoping for a good debate but that doesn't seem likely at this point.

[Elim Garak]

Rofl.
Strange, considering that by the time WoD had been out a week, there was megathreads regarding flight already.

10m complained. 4m remains.

[MoanaLisa]

Knock it off or I'll infract all of you and let the appeals sort it out. No one cares if anyone is ignoring anyone else and it's not germane to the thread. Neither is most of the last page. If this is difficult in any way to understand, send me a PM. Do not put it in the thread.

[Anzaman]

Clearly you meant less than 40%, because at the beginning of wod there were 10m subs. Less than 4m playing legion now.

You know I was against flight earlier - and my WoW account is currently frozen, so sub numbers aren't really usable data in this "discussion".

[Mafic]

@MoanaLisa - And they've never really given a good reason for this (anti-flight people. No. None of your stock arguments hold water aside from 'I like this' which isn't an argument, it's a personal preference)..

They never will but I think it's because a lot of the team leads went to Titan in BC and want the game to be like it was back then. My issue with the lack of flight is that they ALSO designed the terrain in a near-abusive manner with a ton of cliffs, etc. For example, in Stormheim, near Hyrsdal (sp?) there's a bridge across a chasm... that's destroyed. Getting from many places to another quest is an annoying mess of wandering around over obstacles... if this were a natural environment, eh. But this is deliberately designed... and it's almost a 'fuck you, this would be easy with flight but you don't have that so run around little players!" feel. It has the Afrasiabi smell to it and I dislike that guy.

The problem is that this is two expansion in a row they have designed zones to be very unfriendly to player navigate and flying restricted. Flight restrictions would make sense if they zones were navigable by land.

This is why when flight is introduced and how many parts is integral for all things moving forward with Legion IMVHO.