Finally the Alliance fistpump moment we deserved [SPOILERS]

[Bigby]

one is avenging a warchief against the legion.
the other is attacking someone who is not the legion.

one is a warchief corrupting an anti-legion titan army against Azeroth for her own gain
the other is attacking to stop her

I love how the Sylvanas Defence Force continue to cry how evil Genn is for attacking Sylvanas when the Legion is attacking, but they've got no problem with Sylvanas corrupting, enslaving and subverting their naturally anti-Legion titanic allies in the form of the Valajar.

I'm sure her delusional fanboys will now desperately try to reply with headcons such as "m-m-maybe slavery isn't so bad!" and "muh forsaken reproduction"

The alliance victim complex is through the roof. Also the "alliance never get cool stuff" sentiment is shocking ... I can't imagine anyone feeling this way.

At least Alliance fans are used to losing.

Horde fanboys spazz out if there's so much as datamined dialogue that hints a character might so much as say a bad word about their precious Horde. Remember when the first lines came out where Genn slated her? Entire threads calling for blood.

I love Jaina and Genn. They trigger Horde fanboys harder than any Tumblr SJW ever could be.

[Friendlyimmolation]

For all this talk of angry horde fanboys people seem to be spazzing themselves out. The idea of an angry horde fan seems to be worse than any actual horde fan. Seriously the only triggered people here did it to themselves, worked into a frenzy on how evil/lame/butthurt these seemingly made up horde fans are.

[Deleted]

But still neutral enough, to go back to the original point, for him killing Garrosh to not have been a "Horde moment".

Because that was a personal revenge event, and Thrall wasn't acting as a member of the Horde. Neither was Garrosh. Earthen Ring vs Iron Horde =/= Horde.

I wouldn't say Thrall is neutral at all but that's a discussion I really can't be bethored to get into.

I will however agree that the duel between Garrosh and Thrall wasn't a Horde moment, and neither was Genn messing up Sylanas' plans an Alliance moment. Except perhaps in the sense that it improves the Alliance's position in the Red team vs Blue team conflict although we currently have more pressing matters.

However I'd still say it was a cool moment.

Genn's decision to attack the Forsaken fleet, crash his ship, and chase Sylvanas around Stormheim is dumb, because there's a much bigger threat that needs to be handled, but, I kinda get why he wants vengeance, in his mind Sylvanas sacked his city, killed his son, and betrayed the Alliance at the Broken Shore resulting in his friend and High King's death.

Of course we the players know that Sylvanas attacked Gilneas on Garrosh's orders, and we know that the Horde didn't betray the Alliance so it's much easier for us with a birds-eye view on things to judge if that makes any sense.

I will also say that for characters to be dumb and blinded by vengeance only makes them more real, like, people don't always make the best decisions it happens, if every character wad a perfect black or white character instead of a more morally grey character the game's story wouldn't be as engaging.

And also, having a go at Genn for raising a massive wall around his kingdom and hiding behind it is fair, but at the same time, he realizes that he made a mistake, and is trying to make amends, in the end he was only doing what he thought was best for him and his people, much like every leader.

[Mehrunes]

one is a warchief corrupting an anti-legion titan army against Azeroth for her own gain
the other is attacking to stop her

I love how the Sylvanas Defence Force continue to cry how evil Genn is for attacking Sylvanas when the Legion is attacking, but they've got no problem with Sylvanas corrupting, enslaving and subverting their naturally anti-Legion titanic allies in the form of the Valajar.

When did she corrupt or subvert anything? Certainly not Valarjar, because Val'kyr aren't Valarjar.

I'm sure her delusional fanboys will now desperately try to reply with headcons such as "m-m-maybe slavery isn't so bad!" and "muh forsaken reproduction"

Or you could play the game since it mentions Sylvanas wanting to steal Val'kyr power and not enslave anyone. Not the nicest thing to do, but better than enslavement. And you saying that Forsaken reproduction in context of Val'kyr is headcanon when the two have been tied since Cata is just pathetic. And the only delusional thing here, so good job on ramping that irony.

At least Alliance fans are used to losing.

Horde fanboys spazz out if there's so much as datamined dialogue that hints a character might so much as say a bad word about their precious Horde. Remember when the first lines came out where Genn slated her? Entire threads calling for blood.

Vol'jin trash-talking the Alliance player in 5.3 says hi. And for some magical reason threads about your kind crying about Sylvanas outnumber any and all threads about Genn, even the positive ones and lead by miles.

I love Jaina and Genn. They trigger Horde fanboys harder than any Tumblr SJW ever could be.

Given that this is a thread about Sylvanas and how the special kind of Alliance, you included given how you parrot the biggest Alliance crybaby this world has ever seen, reacts to her even in this thread, this is irony overload.

[Florena]

this! very much this...

He's an alliance leader working with alliance players to thwart a horde character. It's still very much an alliance moment.

[Kallisto]

That made no sense.

"Avenging the warchief saves the world."
"Avenging an Alliance king doesn't kekekek."

It does

Avenging Vol'jin means taking the fight to the legion
"Avenging" Varian means going against the group who has the same common interests as you and therefore you're directly helping the legion end the world.

[Zeds Dead]

As an Alliance player..... I thought it was another story ruined by the Alliance and the worgen.

So tired of having this fake horde vs Alliance shit shoved down our throat and the only real death is storytelling.

Slap ourselves on the back for attacking the horde, losing our prized ship, and ignoring the Legion. Great job today men.

Good thing we didnt let our own people join the Alliance because the horde need a base on our continent.....great choice Developers.

[Kallisto]

I will also say that for characters to be dumb and blinded by vengeance only makes them more real, like, people don't always make the best decisions it happens, if every character wad a perfect black or white character instead of a more morally grey character the game's story wouldn't be as engaging.

No it does not. Your average person in a position of power will sit down and think about all possible variables and weigh in the most logical conclusion or they will have been overthrown by now. Genn's actions do not make him realistic they make him even more dumb than anything else. Anyone in Genn's position would have sat down and realised Liam jumped in the arrow, would have had reports the forsaken were forced into attacking Gilneas and would have made the logical conclusion that the Horde were over run.

[the boar]

you broke my queens lamp, jerkwolf

[Deleted]

It does

Avenging Vol'jin means taking the fight to the legion
"Avenging" Varian means going against the group who has the same common interests as you and therefore you're directly helping the legion end the world.

Then why does Sylvanas spend her time going after the Valkyrs for her own interests instead of fighting the Legion. She is the one wasting time and resources not fighting the Legion.

[Bigby]

When did she corrupt or subvert anything? Certainly not Valarjar, because Val'kyr aren't Valarjar.

The Val'kyr are part of the Valajar. Who raises the worthy Vrykul to serve in Odyn's armies? The Val'kyr.

Or you could play the game since it mentions Sylvanas wanting to steal Val'kyr power and not enslave anyone. Not the nicest thing to do, but better than enslavement.

"Submit. The Val'kyr are -mine!- "

Only Forsaken fanboys could parrot this to mean anything but enslavement. Maybe if she said, "Submit. The power of the Val'kyr is mine!" you'd have a point.

And you saying that Forsaken reproduction in context of Val'kyr is headcanon when the two have been tied since Cata is just pathetic. And the only delusional thing here, so good job on ramping that irony.

Aren't you the guy who said that human mothers are worse than the Forsaken because human mothers don't give their children the choice whether to live or not? That's the most delusional thing I ever saw here. Plus, y'know, acting as if Sylvanas directly wanting to get her grubby mits on the Val'kyr isn't enslavement. People here always cry "b-b-but genn wiped out their only chance for reproduction!"

Vol'jin trash-talking the Alliance player in 5.3 says hi. And for some magical reason threads about your kind crying about Sylvanas outnumber any and all threads about Genn, even the positive ones and lead by miles.

Tyrande in 7.0 says hi.

[PunisherV20]

People need to stop blaming the Horde for Varian's stupid plan. Why wasn't that ship or a gunship over their head the whole time providing cover fire and giving them Intel about how the Horde is doing? Why couldn't Jaina port them out when shit went bad? Again, don't lay the incompetence of the Alliance at the feet of the Horde.

As for Genn, well he's a moron and it has been stated and the reasons why have been stated many times in this thread already.

[Mehrunes]

The Val'kyr are part of the Valajar. Who raises the worthy Vrykul to serve in Odyn's armies? The Val'kyr.

That's some really idiotic logic. And it's also not surprising.

"Submit. The Val'kyr are -mine!- "

Only Forsaken fanboys could parrot this to mean anything but enslavement. Maybe if she said, "Submit. The power of the Val'kyr is mine!" you'd have a point.

The Forsaken log of the captain that accompanied Sylvanas on her mission says she wants to steal it, deal with it. And if you had a clue instead of spending time crying about imaginary dogshit like SDF, HORDE BIAS and other similar nonsense, you'd know that the power of Eyir is, you know, to create infinite Val'kyr.

Aren't you the guy who said that human mothers are worse than the Forsaken because human mothers don't give their children the choice whether to live or not? That's the most delusional thing I ever saw here.

Considering that I didn't, the delusional thing here is this shitpost of yours. Or maybe it's blatant lying. Then again the answer to such dilemmas when it comes to your kind is usually "why not both?"

Plus, y'know, acting as if Sylvanas directly wanting to get her grubby mits on the Val'kyr isn't enslavement. People here always cry "b-b-but genn wiped out their only chance for reproduction!"

If she wants to steal her powers as the report of someone with intimate knowledge of her actual plans indicates, then yes, that wouldn't be enslavement. Because, imagine that, words mean things. And you're moving goalposts. Previous post didn't say anything about the only chance of reproduction. I take it you have no way to explain how Genn's actions being related to the issue of Forsaken reproduction in general is headcanon. What a shocking turn of events /s

Tyrande in 7.0 says hi.

Can't recall Blizz giving Horde players a dialog option of "QQ my feeble feelings have been hurt, pander to them!" like Alliance got in 5.3. So something tells me this massive backlash is only this massive in your head and that your attempt to make it even remotely similar in scope to the Alliance endless flood of tears is just as shitty as the rest of your post. Try harder next time.

[darkwarrior42]

Yes, it was. He even says at the beginning "for Varian, for Gilneas, for my son".

You can nit-pick, that it was personal revenge, but you can't take the Alliance out of that context, after what just happened at the Broken Shore and considering that the Gilneans are part of the Alliance as much as all the other races.

For me it definitely felt like an Alliance moment.

I mean if this wasn't an Alliance moment, then neither would have been retaking Gilneas.

Varian was his friend. His son was his blood. Gilneas is the kingdom he led out of the Alliance at a time of crisis, leaving them to their fate, because they weren't Gilneans so what happened to them wasn't his problem.

This was personal vengeance. It's nice to be able to play it off as something else so he can look better, but at the end of the day, if the Alliance had decided it wasn't worth pursuing or that the Burning Legion was a bigger threat, there is not a doubt in my mind that Greymane would have spit in the Alliance's face, left the Alliance (again), and pursued his vendetta anyways.

[Maxilian]

Then why does Sylvanas spend her time going after the Valkyrs for her own interests instead of fighting the Legion. She is the one wasting time and resources not fighting the Legion.

The Valkyrs are hers and her people best interest and would also be a powerful ally against the Legion.

[Deleted]

The Valkyrs are hers and her people best interest

They might be in her people's best interest as well, but let's face it, this is Sylvanas, and it doesn't matter to her. It's been established why she's doing it, and it's not for her people.

and would also be a powerful ally against the Legion.

Would have been yeah. They actually would've joined our cause out of their own free will. Too bad Sylvanas tried to FUCKING ENSLAVE THEM, and now they think the worst of Sylvanas and the Horde. Let's hope they still trust the Alliance.

[Maxilian]

They might be in her people's best interest as well, but let's face it, this is Sylvanas, and it doesn't matter to her. It's been established why she's doing it, and it's not for her people.

You know that's the whole point right... the idea that Sylvanas is doing it for her and her people (and that if that's going to stay)

Would have been yeah. They actually would've joined our cause out of their own free will. Too bad Sylvanas tried to FUCKING ENSLAVE THEM, and now they think the worst of Sylvanas and the Horde. Let's hope they still trust the Alliance.

Not like they can fight, they are trapped in Valhala thanks to Helya (same with all Vrykuls that are there)

[Deleted]

No it does not. Your average person in a position of power will sit down and think about all possible variables and weigh in the most logical conclusion or they will have been overthrown by now. Genn's actions do not make him realistic they make him even more dumb than anything else. Anyone in Genn's position would have sat down and realised Liam jumped in the arrow, would have had reports the forsaken were forced into attacking Gilneas and would have made the logical conclusion that the Horde were over run.

Many mistakes have been made in politics, by people in positions of power, don't be silly.

His son may have tanked the arrow for his father, but I'd still want vengeance but that might just be me.

What really confuses me is how you think Genn would've known about Sylvanas being forced to attack Gilneas, how would he know that? By "getting reports"? That's such a blanket statement, how would he have gotten reports? Spies? I certainly never saw any Alliance spies during my time in Silverpine, and if they're there in-lore or whatever, a Horde network of counter-intelligence would also have to be there.

And also, how would the logical conclusion not be that the Horde betrayed the Alliance at the Broken Shore when the Horde has on several occasions fucked the Alliance over even with a bigger threat present, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me and whatnot.

You have to understand that we as the players get to see both sides.

I'm not saying Genn isn't dumb for doing what he did, I'm saying that I get why he did it and that acting in such a way makes sense.

[Deleted]

You know that's the whole point right... the idea that Sylvanas is doing it for her and her people (and that if that's going to stay)

She's not doing it for her people, she's doing it for herself.

Not like they can fight, they are trapped in Valhala thanks to Helya (same with all Vrykuls that are there)

What does Helya have to do with Valhalla? Helya sends people to Helheim. The Val'kyr are trapped in Valhalla? What?

[Maxilian]

She's not doing it for her people, she's doing it for herself.

Ok, if you say so.

What does Helya have to do with Valhalla? Helya sends people to Helheim. The Val'kyr are trapped in Valhalla? What?

Helya became what she is thanks to Odyn, she hates him for that, and made a curse so him and most of his subjects are trapped inside Valhala. (Same with most of the warriors raised by the Valkyrs)