No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Anzaman]

I don't know how flight is obtained, outside of simply unlocking achievement - or is that just it, haven't really followed WoW news since I unsubbed almost two years ago? But I wouldn't mind having some reputation rank-up based "epic" quest-chain towards unlocking flight.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Really, inttellectual honesty isn´t your strong suit, is it?

Better at it than you apparently. You're REALLY stretching to try and justify your bitterness.

The only thing that means is that the number of paid, active accounts are 3,3M minimum. But if you believe that it means that they have near 9-7M (the numbers in Cata), either you are very VERY gullible, or dishonest.

That's DAY ONE sales, not total sales. Calling others intellectually dishonest is lolz.

Are you suggesting that an "early early early WoD panel" has the same legal requirements and obligations as an investor report?

I'd say even YOU would be able to understand the difference between discussing with your fans about what you plan to put in the game, and hard numbers with your investors that is something that exists currently, such as sub numbers, but you're so blinded by bitterness I'm not sure you could differentiate that nuance. You're trying to make every single little piece of dialogue fit your narrative so you can be right. It's hilarious and sad at the same time.

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I would love to hear what some pro flyers ideas of an "epic" achievement would be.

A quest chain where each step requires you to be revered with everything, then do all the quests in each zone, then get all the treasures, then...

I mean, it has to be a QUEST, not an achievement, DUH.

[Connll]

You're REALLY stretching to try and justify your bitterness.

Lol.

Also, welcome to the ignore list.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Lol.

Also, welcome to the ignore list.

Well I guess when you're dishonest with your posting and the other person proves you wrong very easily, best to ignore them?

[SirCowdog]

You're probably over estimating how many people love flying so much they need a quest on that level to feel special. What a huge waste of resources. Flying is not on the same level as class identity.

Riiiight, but CRAFTING deserves so much dev time because it's sooooooo awesome? hahhahahaha. Come on now....

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I don't know how flight is obtained, outside of simply unlocking achievement - or is that just it, haven't really followed WoW news since I unsubbed almost two years ago? But I wouldn't mind having some reputation rank-up based "epic" quest-chain towards unlocking flight.

Go into your achievements and search for "Pathfinder". Alternatively, go to wowhead or something and do the same.

Basically, it requires that you do all the quests, explore all the zones, and get revered with a bunch of reputation(which requires some world quest grinding). When you stop and think about it, it's everything that you'd normally use flight on. But you don't get flight until after you've already done all of it. So where does that leave you?

[Cthulhu 2020]

Riiiight, but CRAFTING deserves so much dev time because it's sooooooo awesome? hahhahahaha. Come on now....

This expansion they've upped crafting. Still not as good as in some other games, but better than it has been.

Go into your achievements and search for "Pathfinder". Alternatively, go to wowhead or something and do the same.

Basically, it requires that you do all the quests, explore all the zones, and get revered with a bunch of reputation(which requires some world quest grinding). When you stop and think about it, it's everything that you'd normally use flight on. But you don't get flight until after you've already done all of it. So where does that leave you?

There's still getting exalted, farming, and of course pretty much everything else you'd do with flying. For every other expansion with flight at max level, you'll already have done most of the quests since they were always the fastest way (unless you had a dedicated group for rapid, monotonous dungeon grinding). Plus they have said they are looking to make artifact power and world quests relevant throughout the expansion. Rewards can always be tweaked, and even though rep may not cap out, that artifact power is a huge carrot on a very long stick.

[clevin]

Ghostcrawler did though in 2012. When asked if he would do flying mounts again, knowing what he knew then, would he still do it. Answer: No, they make the world too safe. You may not think that a good reason but it's a reason and from someone who was near the top of the developer food chain at Blizzard for a good long while. There is every reason to believe that the developers there now still agree with him.

At this point I'm trying to be a realist about what's likely to happen with flying and remind people that whatever their suggestions for change are they have this brick wall they need to get past: for whatever reason, Blizzard developers have soured on people achieving unlimited flight utility before finishing up expansion zones. That's clearly where they are and they seem willing to absorb whatever losses they get because of it. Also, clearly, the big takeaway to fix from Warlords was "not enough to do" instead of "put flying back in like it was". That's a bet and we'll see how that plays out. No flight in 7.0 doesn't seem to be hurting box sales. Personally, I unsubscribed for a few months because of nothing to do rather than having flying to go to nothing to do.

I do agree that mountainous zones need to be better planned out and put have put out there the idea that corpse runs from graveyards have had their day and need to be looked at. Not a fan of Afrasiabi either really.

The 'too safe' argument is really "we don't/can't design in 3D. However, GC missed the point as to anti0flyers now, including the Blizzard team. The issue is NOT 'if we could do it over' it's "people flew for 7.5 years, what's the reason to take it away when they are so used to it and have spent time and, in some cases, money collecting flying mounts?"

None of the arguments, from Bashiok's ridiculously easily refuted post on the subject to now, convince. They're all refuted pretty easily aside from "I just like it this way" which is countered with "And I don't, why do I have to play according to your prefs?"

Blizzard STILL hasn't been open about when flight will come back and at this point that means they're leaving it to the last patch again. Honestly, while I like Legion, I'm increasingly bothered by the fact that the team's design seems at times almost contemptuous of that segment of players who want flight back. The zone design in Stormheim and Highmountain is deliberate and some of it doesn't add anything but time and frustration to playing the game... it's almost like they want to rub our noses in the fact that this would be easier if we could fly - like they're saying "Yes, flight would make this too easy so we're going to make you traverse silly crap for 15 minutes... SEE???"

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I am glad there is no flying, I hope it stays like this for the duration of the Xpack.

Obviously there is an influx of players with Legion, but I feel like it makes zones feel more alive. Ive had a lot of fun ganking and being ganked because players can't just fly away to escape PvP.

Sigh. Fucking hell people, if you're new to the argument just don't bother. These points are both dead easy to refute. Here:

1) Many people play on PVE servers where 'ganking' doesn't happen. Do why do I need to not fly at max level (virtually no one cares that we can't fly when leveling. it's about max level) just to preserve your precious wPVP when that isn't an issue on my PVE server?

2) They can't escape... so if YOU want to PVP but they really just want to finish a world quest they have to do what YOU want? Why? Why are YOUR desires more important than theirs?

PS: Like almost all anti-flight posts, this one illustrates that most of that sentiment comes down to the rather arrogant "I like this play style, fuck you" attitude. What they don't realize is that it IS arrogant, that it assumes everyone should play they game the way they want to.

[Mafic]

I don't know how flight is obtained, outside of simply unlocking achievement - or is that just it, haven't really followed WoW news since I unsubbed almost two years ago? But I wouldn't mind having some reputation rank-up based "epic" quest-chain towards unlocking flight.

It is a reputation based achievement and only part one is available to be completed. There is no epic quest chain involved and we do not know how many parts there will be, and how they will be completed or when they can be possibly completed.

You are just as informed of the situation with Legion patchfinder as the rest of us that are following closely.

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Riiiight, but CRAFTING deserves so much dev time because it's sooooooo awesome? hahhahahaha. Come on now....

They nerfed crafting professions to the ground just recently so I am not sure what the WoW devs are focusing on and testing. Which is why if they don't start testing flight early you are looking at massive procrastination and dragging of feet just like last time because Blizzard devs had hurt feelings how players do not share their vision of the game regarding flight.

[Hotsforyou]

I really hate the no flying at 110. When it takes me an hour to do a quest because it is in some obsure location literally on top of a mountain and my friend and i are searching for how to get up the mountain for 45 mins, it really cuts into my time. I get a couple hours a day to play and prep to raid. They need to give us flying asap.

[Dormie]

I really hate the no flying at 110. When it takes me an hour to do a quest because it is in some obsure location literally on top of a mountain and my friend and i are searching for how to get up the mountain for 45 mins, it really cuts into my time. I get a couple hours a day to play and prep to raid. They need to give us flying asap.

L2P problem.

[Mafic]

I really hate the no flying at 110. When it takes me an hour to do a quest because it is in some obsure location literally on top of a mountain and my friend and i are searching for how to get up the mountain for 45 mins, it really cuts into my time. I get a couple hours a day to play and prep to raid. They need to give us flying asap.

Yeah this is why it reduces player interactions in the world and pushes more players to AFK in Dalaran to wait for instance queues instead.

It promotes more player burnout by withholding flight and asking the player to complete simple tasks with flying mounts are turned into gargantuan time sinks in return.

[SirBeef]

It's because that explanation has been shown to not be in line with Blizzard allowing players to trivialize content in soooooo many other ways. So far nearly EVERY explanation for why flight has been removed has been shown to have holes in it so wide you could drive a bus through it.

There are only two that make any sense: Blizzard's stupid, unthinking artistic vision coming at the cost of player satisfaction, or Blizzard using no-flying to blatantly slow people down.

We've been over the pros and cons of each, and while both of those reasons have some issues, they hold up better than anything else.

It was said more eloquently earlier, but flying is a convenience. It is a convenience that allows players to bypass the game in a way that Blizzard does not care for. That is all the reason they need to make the changes they did. It does not matter what players think, feel, or believe. Blizzard makes the decisions and they decided they want us to play the game on the ground until they feel enough time has passed. There is no hole in this just people upset that they can no longer fly.

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Yeah this is why it reduces player interactions in the world and pushes more players to AFK in Dalaran to wait for instance queues instead.

It promotes more player burnout by withholding flight and asking the player to complete simple tasks with flying mounts are turned into gargantuan time sinks in return.

Where was this argument in Vanilla with all the time sinks and gated by slow travel mechanics?

[Dormie]

Yeah this is why it reduces player interactions in the world and pushes more players to AFK in Dalaran to wait for instance queues instead.

It promotes more player burnout by withholding flight and asking the player to complete simple tasks with flying mounts are turned into gargantuan time sinks in return.

Prove it..

[Mafic]

Where was this argument in Vanilla with all the time sinks and gated by slow travel mechanics?

The game moved on beyond vanilla and the vanilla maps were designed with ground mounts in mind. Legion and WoD zones are not designed to be traverse on ground mounts reasonably or if at all in certain locations.

[Deleted]

You're probably over estimating how many people love flying so much they need a quest on that level to feel special. What a huge waste of resources. Flying is not on the same level as class identity.

Oh no no no - read my signature, flying is more important for the game than any silly class.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I really hate the no flying at 110. When it takes me an hour to do a quest because it is in some obsure location literally on top of a mountain and my friend and i are searching for how to get up the mountain for 45 mins, it really cuts into my time. I get a couple hours a day to play and prep to raid. They need to give us flying asap.

Yeah, I can see this happening occasionally, but the great majority of the quests and world quests take a few minutes. Transportation has been made ridiculously easy, and if it takes you 45 minutes just to find a path up a mountain... just wow.

[Dormie]

The game moved on beyond vanilla and the vanilla maps were designed with ground mounts in mind. Legion and WoD zones are not designed to be traverse on ground mounts reasonably or if at all in certain locations.

Even I'm getting tired of responding with these short quips but

Wtf are you talking about.

[Cthulhu 2020]

The game moved on beyond vanilla and the vanilla maps were designed with ground mounts in mind. Legion and WoD zones are not designed to be traverse on ground mounts reasonably or if at all in certain locations.

Yeah, sometimes you have to grapple, which is in itself a pretty cool mechanic.

Everywhere else? Completely accessible with ground mounts.

[Idoru]

Yeah, I can see this happening occasionally, but the great majority of the quests and world quests take a few minutes. Transportation has been made ridiculously easy, and if it takes you 45 minutes just to find a path up a mountain... just wow.

So there's really no reason to withhold flying past 7.1

[Mafic]

Yeah, sometimes you have to grapple, which is in itself a pretty cool mechanic.

Everywhere else? Completely accessible with ground mounts.

This not true because there are areas in Spires of Arrak and High Mountain that are not accessible by a ground mount.

Grappling Hook isn't cool or interesting to be honest. Outlaw has a version of it and have to waste a talent selection while the other two specs have shadow step.

Now, back to the topic of the thread at hand. Flying is what makes those areas in Legion and WoD accessible. Everything else is academic.