1. #6721
    Frankly I don't have a hard on for finding someone who isn't a politician to be my president. Plumbers can be a deplorable bunch who will make up high cost repairs often enough that you have to call in three to make sure you are not getting screwed but if my pipes have burst I am not going to call a limo driver to fix my pipes. You call a plumber and you keep a close fucking eye on them and you make sure they are not soaking you.

  2. #6722
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    This was a big slip up for her. As bad as Romney's 47% comment.
    Romney's hypothesis - that all reliably Democratic voters are dependent on money from the government and don't want to work - was testable and failed to meet the basic demands of evidence.

    First, such a broad definition of government-sector dependency and "people who don't work" will include people (a) too young to work (otherwise known as "children"), (b) people who used to work but have since retired (otherwise known as "the elderly"), and (c) people who have careers that are paid for by local, state, and the Federal government (otherwise known as "police officers, fire fighters, public school teachers, and other civil servants" and "military personnel"). Even a cursory examination of these categories makes their designation as moochers a bit of a stretch, to say the least. Second, one can actually verify, through polling, how these groups of people actually vote. Children, of course, cannot vote. Those who fall into category (c) are, for the most part, evenly distributed in their preferences between Republicans and Democrats. The elderly tend to vote Republican.

    Clinton's hypothesis that half of Trump supporters are either racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, islamophobic, etc, or all of the above, is also one testable through polling. There's the Reuters/Ipsos poll from late June that, for instance, showed that half of all Trump supporters rated blacks as more criminal and more violent than whites. And even though I think its fairly safe to assume a significant degree of overlap between the various categories within the basket of deplorables, that's just one of the criteria Clinton included within the basket's panoply. The polling on Trump supporter's attitudes towards Muslims all throughout the primary campaign, for instance, leaves one with the distinct impression that "half" is, if anything, a wholly conservative estimate.
    Last edited by Slybak; 2016-09-10 at 10:24 PM.

  3. #6723
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slybak View Post
    Romney's hypothesis - that all reliably Democratic voters are dependent on money from the government and don't want to work - was testable and failed to meet the basic demands of evidence.

    First, such a broad definition of government-sector dependency and "people who don't work" will include people (a) too young to work (otherwise known as "children"), (b) people who used to work but have since retired (otherwise known as "the elderly"), and (c) people who have careers that are paid for by local, state, and the Federal government (otherwise known as "police officers, fire fighters, public school teachers, and other civil servants" and "military personnel"). Even a cursory examination of these categories makes their designation as moochers a bit of a stretch, to say the least. Second, one can actually verify, through polling, how these groups of people actually vote. Children, of course, cannot vote. Those who fall into category (c) are, for the most part, evenly distributed in their preferences between Republicans and Democrats. The elderly tend to vote Republican.

    Clinton's hypothesis that half of Trump supporters are either racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, islamophobic, etc, or all of the above, is also one testable through polling. There's the Reuters/Ipsos poll from late June that, for instance, showed that half of all Trump supporters rated blacks as more criminal and more violent than whites. And even though I think its fairly safe to assume a significant degree of overlap between the various categories within the basket of deplorables, that's just one of the criteria Clinton included within the basket's panoply. The polling on Trump supporter's attitudes towards Muslims all throughout the primary campaign, for instance, leaves one with the distinct impression that "half" is, if anything, a wholly conservative estimate.
    So in essence you are saying she is correct? What she said was deplorable and should be condemned. I may disagree with someone's political stance and choice, but I respect them. They are Americans and have a right to vote for whom they feel is the best for our country.

  4. #6724
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    So in essence you are saying she is correct?
    Yes. Bigotry is deplorable, and quantifying half of all Trump supporters as bigots (in one, all, or some combination of the criteria listed) is a reasonable stipulation given the available data.

    What she said was deplorable and should be condemned.
    I understand that conservatives are on this whole "being called a bigot is worse than actual bigotry" trip, but I am under no obligation to coddle their pwecious feewings.

  5. #6725
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    So in essence you are saying she is correct? What she said was deplorable and should be condemned. I may disagree with someone's political stance and choice, but I respect them. They are Americans and have a right to vote for whom they feel is the best for our country.
    "Trump tells it like it is!"
    "Clinton just told it like it is."
    "That's deplorable!"

  6. #6726
    Quote Originally Posted by LaserSharkDFB View Post
    "Trump tells it like it is!"
    "Clinton just told it like it is."
    "That's deplorable!"
    "FUCK PC BULLSHIT REALS BEFORE FEELS YOU LIBERAL SJW CUCK PUSSY."
    "An awful lot of Trump supporters are bigots."
    "NOW, NOW, GOOD SIR, THERE'S NO NEED TO BE INSULTING."

  7. #6727
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaserSharkDFB View Post
    "Trump tells it like it is!"
    "Clinton just told it like it is."
    "That's deplorable!"
    That's pretty disgusting that you feel that strongly about human beings with different political opinions than you. Assuming you do since you said she "tells it like it is"

  8. #6728
    Also she just apologized for being over generalistic and saying 'half'. There's no denying such people exist and support Trump, but now at least you can make up your own percentage of how many of them are out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    That's pretty disgusting that you feel that strongly about human beings with different political opinions than you. Assuming you do since you said she "tells it like it is"
    Are... are you not paying attention to the analysis from the previous page? Go back and read, son, I don't have time for you.
    Last edited by LaserSharkDFB; 2016-09-10 at 10:56 PM.

  9. #6729
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaserSharkDFB View Post
    Also she just apologized for being over generalistic and saying 'half'. There's no denying such people and exist and support Trump, but now at least you can make up your own percentage of how many of them are out there.


    Are... are you not paying attention to the analysis from the previous page? Go back and read, son, I don't have time for you.
    I did before I typed that post... so now what do we do?

  10. #6730
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    That's pretty disgusting that you feel that strongly about human beings with different political opinions than you. Assuming you do since you said she "tells it like it is"
    Lol. Just lol. As a Trumpist do you feel the same way about Trump saying that illegal immigrants from Mexico are criminals and rapists with only some of them as good people? Or his supporters who believe the same? Are you disgusted with them using a massively broad brush too?

    Wait no. Trump REALLY is telling it like it is isn't he?
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtower View Post
    I don't think I ever hide the fact I was a national socialist. The fact I am a German one is what technically makes me a nazi
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    You haven't seen nothing yet, we trumpsters will definitely be getting some cool uniforms soon I hope.

  11. #6731
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slybak View Post
    Yes. Bigotry is deplorable, and quantifying half of all Trump supporters as bigots (in one, all, or some combination of the criteria listed) is a reasonable stipulation given the available data.


    I understand that conservatives are on this whole "being called a bigot is worse than actual bigotry" trip, but I am under no obligation to coddle their pwecious feewings.
    What she said is bigotry then. And if one feels the same way she does, what does that say about a person? I do not feel those who support her are less deserving of respect just because they do.

  12. #6732
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    I did before I typed that post... so now what do we do?
    Then we wait for you to put away your strawman, I guess. This isn't about political views, it's about people who are racist, islamophobic, xenophobic bigots. I am entirely happy to call such people deplorable and will do it all day. They exist; that is a fact. They form a large percentage of Trump's base; that is also a fact. If you don't like it, you should look at why these people are flocking to Trump and whether or not you want to be associated with people like that. Because if you're okay with that, you might just be tacky too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    What she said is bigotry then. And if one feels the same way she does, what does that say about a person? I do not feel those who support her are less deserving of respect just because they do.
    That's the same strawman. She isn't saying they are bigots because they are Trump supporters, she is saying they are bigots AND they are Trump supporters.
    Last edited by LaserSharkDFB; 2016-09-10 at 11:02 PM.

  13. #6733
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    I did before I typed that post... so now what do we do?
    We could always engage in a critical analysis of why a non-negligible number of Americans believe that state-sanctioned and enforced discrimination on the basis of race, religion, sex, national origin, and/or sexual orientation is just a benign difference of political preferences.

  14. #6734
    I know quite a few Trump supporters in my town and from elsewhere. I'll try to be as honest and unbiased as possible.

    Some are generally clueless about politics and are just angry. They think Trump is a good way to express that anger, but they don't really know a lot of details, just soundbites. Others have always hated the Clintons and will never trust them no matter what. Trump can do or say anything and it won't matter.

    I don't think those people are being rational, but I don't think they're evil. I understand why they feel as they do.

    However, there are others. They are without a doubt racist bigots. They absolutely detest brown people coming into the country from the south. The things they say about them would get you banned here on MMOC if you posted them. Their love for blacks isn't much different. They have a deep hatred for liberals and anything they think resembles the left. This goes for gays, science, and just about everything else that doesn't fit into their far-right christian mindset.

    These are the people Clinton was referring to, but I don't think it's half of Trump supporters. She could have expressed the sentiment differently. But, maybe she just wanted headlines which she is getting.

  15. #6735
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaserSharkDFB View Post
    Then we wait for you to put away your strawman, I guess. This isn't about political views, it's about people who are racist, islamophobic, xenophobic bigots. I am entirely happy to call such people deplorable and will do it all day. They exist; that is a fact. They form a large percentage of Trump's base; that is also a fact. If you don't like it, you should look at why these people are flocking to Trump and whether or not you want to be associated with people like that. Because if you're okay with that, you might just be tacky too.



    That's the same strawman. She isn't saying they are bigots because they are Trump supporters, she is saying they are bigots AND they are Trump supporters.
    Exactly why she is one too. And if it was ok to use the term she used, why was she so quick to apologize? She knows she screwed up. And it will hurt her some in the end. How much? Time will tell.

  16. #6736
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaserSharkDFB View Post
    Then we wait for you to put away your strawman, I guess. This isn't about political views, it's about people who are racist, islamophobic, xenophobic bigots. I am entirely happy to call such people deplorable and will do it all day. They exist; that is a fact. They form a large percentage of Trump's base; that is also a fact. If you don't like it, you should look at why these people are flocking to Trump and whether or not you want to be associated with people like that. Because if you're okay with that, you might just be tacky too.



    That's the same strawman. She isn't saying they are bigots because they are Trump supporters, she is saying they are bigots AND they are Trump supporters.

    That's the problem right there, it is political. I'm a Trump supporter so you're calling me all of those things, and you've never met me. Because I don't want to raise the minimum wage, or because I'm pro-life, whatever the fuck political issue it is, I'm not liberal therefore I'm x-ist, x-phobic, etc etc. That's a really unfortunate mind set to have. But you're brainwashed to think that way so don't blame yourself.

  17. #6737
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    I know quite a few Trump supporters in my town and from elsewhere. I'll try to be as honest and unbiased as possible.

    Some are generally clueless about politics and are just angry. They think Trump is a good way to express that anger, but they don't really know a lot of details, just soundbites. Others have always hated the Clintons and will never trust them no matter what. Trump can do or say anything and it won't matter.

    I don't think those people are being rational, but I don't think they're evil. I understand why they feel as they do.

    However, there are others. They are without a doubt racist bigots. They absolutely detest brown people coming into the country from the south. The things they say about them would get you banned here on MMOC if you posted them. Their love for blacks isn't much different. They have a deep hatred for liberals and anything they think resembles the left. This goes for gays, science, and just about everything else that doesn't fit into their far-right christian mindset.

    These are the people Clinton was referring to, but I don't think it's half of Trump supporters. She could have expressed the sentiment differently. But, maybe she just wanted headlines which she is getting.
    But it is not good ones. If she is, then Trump has been doing great with his stupid statements, which he has made some for sure.

  18. #6738
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    That's the problem right there, it is political. I'm a Trump supporter so you're calling me all of those things, and you've never met me. Because I don't want to raise the minimum wage, or because I'm pro-life, whatever the fuck political issue it is, I'm not liberal therefore I'm x-ist, x-phobic, etc etc. That's a really unfortunate mind set to have. But you're brainwashed to think that way so don't blame yourself.
    Accepting bigotry as a mere cost of achieving other political goals is not a strong defense against an accusation of bigotry.

  19. #6739
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    That's the problem right there, it is political. I'm a Trump supporter so you're calling me all of those things, and you've never met me. Because I don't want to raise the minimum wage, or because I'm pro-life, whatever the fuck political issue it is, I'm not liberal therefore I'm x-ist, x-phobic, etc etc. That's a really unfortunate mind set to have. But you're brainwashed to think that way so don't blame yourself.
    According to some on here, there is a 50% chance we are deplorable.:P

  20. #6740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slybak View Post
    Accepting bigotry as a mere cost of achieving other political goals is not a strong defense against an accusation of bigotry.
    That's a pretty bizarre response to what I typed, but Ok.

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