[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Flizzle]

My suggestion would be to make consecration baseline (albeit lower damage) and the talent for consecrate to either do more damage or move the talent to the 'Greater Judgement' slot and make targets on your consecrate to also get hit by judgement.
No need to scale up divine storm, it would also fix the lack of baseline aoe that we have.

Would need a new talent to replace consecration on row 15 though.

[Religion-]

I'd probably focus on whether the rotation or 'feel' of the class is fun rather than numbers at this point.
Anecdotal evidence is aplenty atm.
I could answer your question easily and state that I've not been anything but top dps ST and when Ashes to Ashes is up on trash pulls I'm usually the top at the end.
But take that with a grain of salt as there are too many variables involved.
I would say if you're feeling under powered numbers wise, you should examine your talents/use of abilities as managing the rotation is always a fluid process as not every encounter is Patchwerk esque.

[caervek]

In other news, Arator the Redemer, my follower body guard has a leap like/teleport attack. My class fantasy has class dreams.

It's the falling sword Crusader ability from Diablo, just without the targeting delay.

[Morally Grey Storm]

My suggestion would be to make consecration baseline (albeit lower damage) and the talent for consecrate to either do more damage or move the talent to the 'Greater Judgement' slot and make targets on your consecrate to also get hit by judgement.
No need to scale up divine storm, it would also fix the lack of baseline aoe that we have.

Would need a new talent to replace consecration on row 15 though.

Consecration does not belong to rotation at all, due to not interacting with mastery or combopoint generation.
It's already weak, and takes too long a time to deal it's minuscule effect.
It in no way interacts with artifact.

There is an awful lot of work to be done with it for it become a viable ability.

[anaxie]

That's why I said "in my understanding", and I'll always see that. The only true hybrid ones are, in my eyes, Druid/Monk/Paladin. DK/Warrior/Priest/Shaman and now Demon Hunter are semi-hybrid and Mage/Rogue/Hunter/Warlock are the pure dps classes.
They should only be semi-good in those things, because they can change on the fly. That makes them more useful in most raids than any other class, if you need an extra healer or extra tank, the full hybrid will always be there to fill that gap if need be.
Entitled? If you are feeling entitled to something on the internet, you better stay off it. But who says that topping the meters makes you "do well" in the game?! Being needed by the group/raid because of the help you provide, the person you are is what is doing well in my eyes.




Yes it's reasonable if you enjoy playing it, bring the player, not the class

FoL is useless now that we can't have instant casts of it anymore, it just heals too little for too long cast. And yes, I've forgotten WoG because I haven't needed to spec in it. I did ask our healer if I should switch, but he didn't want to, so I'll take our extra burst on stunned trash.


Anyway, that's it for me on this topic. After reviewing both your post history (especially yours storm), you're just blindsighted on this issue. So there's no point in trying to convince otherwise.
I've been a happy retri for the past 8 years and I've always managed to clear content with my raid team that has never not needed me.
Only time I got pissed was when they took away exorcism 8 hours after the Ulduar patch due to PVP reasons
But for now, I'm happy with the way retri is. A few small changes to make it even better, like being able to buff greater blessings in combat again.

This guy is such a pleb my eyes are fucking bleeding

[Flizzle]

Consecration does not belong to rotation at all, due to not interacting with mastery or combopoint generation.
It's already weak, and takes too long a time to deal it's minuscule effect.
It in no way interacts with artifact.

There is an awful lot of work to be done with it for it become a viable ability.

But the interaction with judgement hitting every target would be dealing with our mastery then?
Also, its not going to be doing major damage unless you talent for the AOE as thats how it is now, but it should still be designed that it should do more damage come 4-5 mobs on trash packs that it would be usable.
Saying it should not be part of our rotation is crap. As it currently stands yes. You want it to generate 1 holy power per mob in consecrate and add a 15 second cooldown to it? That would just devalue AtA.
The issue is lack of innate aoe outside of talents, just a simple cleave or baseline consecrate would be the fix.
Single target is fine, its mid pack, no need to change it, just bring the outliers up or down depending on where they sit.
Our issue is clearing Mythic+. Without decent aoe or a 'hybrid aoe/ST build' we are not going to be viable.

[Religion-]

Consecration does not belong to rotation at all, due to not interacting with mastery or combopoint generation.
It's already weak, and takes too long a time to deal it's minuscule effect.
It in no way interacts with artifact.

There is an awful lot of work to be done with it for it become a viable ability.

Always felt Consecration should be applied with an Attack and generate X combo points every Y seconds if hitting Z+ targets.
The consecration effect should then cause TV ( should switch icon to Divine Storm and change to that animation ) to cleave all targets within the area. ( cause we're already ripping off other classes' specs and Holy DnD is fun yeah? )
Abilities that are not builders, spenders, or cool downs in a combo point system do not feel impactful or meaningful.
I think consecration is very class fantasy and wish it was more useful in more situations.

[snackfeat]

Fun fact, the judgement hammer we throw when casting it is just a holy-fire Doomhammer but with only one side for the hammer head:

Except it's not at all a doomhammer. It's the same hammer model as the ones that the Silver Hand Protector NPCs in the paladin order hall are using.

[Alindra]

I dont mean to start anything, and our issues arent as bad as warlocks, but holy shit they have so much attention.

Look at this- http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/7...its-our-fault/

In there, Ornyx talks about how they failed to communicate with the warlock community a few times, how they are going to fix warlocks and such. Maybe we didnt do a good job like they did since they put all of their constructive feedback into one place whereas our threads are filled with *lul rip ret* and *rerolling lol* which as Ion said makes them not read it. Im just curious about it, dont get riled up over this though.

I'm sure this is not an insignificant reason for the lack of feedback. People are upset and they vent in threads instead of providing critical - but constructive - feedback. I seriously wonder how many posts in the Retribution feedback thread are just "X pages and no blue response."

[Morally Grey Storm]

I'm sure this is not an insignificant reason for the lack of feedback. People are upset and they vent in threads instead of providing critical - but constructive - feedback. I seriously wonder how many posts in the Retribution feedback thread are just "X pages and no blue response."

One hundred and forty five pages of all kinds of feedback.

- - - Updated - - -

All the blueposts and lines about "no response" combined is what one hundred and forty sixth page consists of.

[Ryuji]

Except it's not at all a doomhammer. It's the same hammer model as the ones that the Silver Hand Protector NPCs in the paladin order hall are using.

Except it's not the same model as the hammers the Silver Hand Protectors use:







The pommel and hilt might be the same but the head isn't exactly. The frostwolf insignia's in the center still, with some slight changes to the edges of the insignia and the hammer head.

[justVT]

Here...that comment I made earlier about the beta feedback forum post. ..Have a look for yourselves guys. Click the blue jump button twice. I bet you theres only one jump to that "we're making post longer here" blue. Enjoy 146 pages and not a single reply from Blizzard to anything.

Also, on the ret judgment animation. ...Why the holy fuck does judgment now have an through air travel time? Half our animations are terrible..like TV/JV, and judgment. Judgment is a hammer toss slap in the face that looks like a golden form of HoW that goes slower through the air rather than being something we can use nomatter which way we face like old judgment used to..yet caster, boomkin and the like can all be kiting you and still apply dots and attacks to you.

JV and TV should have been the animation of crusader strike, which looks MUCH more violent with this sweeping, jumping upward slash, if not just returned to the golden hammer and weapon smash down onto our enemy with that satisfying "wah-chunk!" sound it had. But nope, both finishers we spin like a pretty pretty princess with some odd backhanded smack of our weapon.

Divine Storm, Concecration, Blade, Hammer of justice all have the same "sword in the air, ah-ha!" animation of our character thats REALLY underwhelming.

So we have 5 animations total to 9 abilities. [1] for 2 finishers the same, [1] for 4 attacks the same. [3] that are unique being CS and Ashes, and our rehashed hammer toss judgment.

This is a good point. Not being able to cast Judgment unless they're in front of you is a handicap compared to others and it isn't necessary. While we aren't as gutted as some have made us out to be, Ret needs some serious work.

[Deleted]

Only dungeon and crafted there. Would love to see the wq trinkets (840 with strength and random static secondary) Its 1k+ strength and around 800-900 haste or crit or versa. Cannot see most of the dungeon trinkets being better than that.

[Morally Grey Storm]

So finally I've decided to delve into the depths of this very greater expansion.
All I can say after 2 hours of play is I fething miss Hammer of Wrath so, so much.

[Deleted]

Conc is really unrewarding atm (as everything but FV on first tier). It's fine not being a combo builder or spender. By default it participates in slower rotations so hopefully it wont cost holy power in the future. The viability on the other hand... It should follow the paladin around or make it so it gives a great percentage of the damage and on the first tick. Then would consider it. No idea about the actual numbers it can pull but as it is now would never pick it

[Ryuji]

So finally I've decided to delve into the depths of this very greater expansion.
All I can say after 2 hours of play is I fething miss Hammer of Wrath so, so much.

Go Greater Judgement, will make Divine Storm not tickle stuff to death. Has helped me tons.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Go Greater Judgement, will make Divine Storm not tickle stuff to death. Has helped me tons.

Yeah, I took it right off the bat.

Still, absence of HoW is mortifying, and having such pathetic mobility is somehow distantly familiar.

[Gigaman]

I blame our poor aoe problems on our Judgment mastery. Divine Storm only benfitting off the 2-4 targets debuffed is seriously weak, even with Greater Judgment it's weak, and devalues our mastery massively. Changing Judgment to being a buff(I don't think they will, it would mean re-working Greater Judgment) or making our mastery directly increase Divine Storm damage(like ele shamans mastery used to increase earthquake damage) would certainly help.

[Ryuji]

I blame our poor aoe problems on our Judgment mastery. Divine Storm only benfitting off the 2-4 targets debuffed is seriously weak, even with Greater Judgment it's weak, and devalues our mastery massively. Changing Judgment to being a buff(I don't think they will, it would mean re-working Greater Judgment) or making our mastery directly increase Divine Storm damage(like ele shamans mastery used to increase earthquake damage) would certainly help.

Honestly just having Greater Judgement be changed back to Mass Judgement would be nice considering the options on the row: Fires of Justice, Zeal and that. You'd have your single-target specialty, your cleave and then mass AoE all right there. It'd be perfect.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Honestly just having Greater Judgement be changed back to Mass Judgement would be nice considering the options on the row: Fires of Justice, Zeal and that. You'd have your single-target specialty, your cleave and then mass AoE all right there. It'd be perfect.

We'd be missing on /gkick talent, then.
So no, not perfect.