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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by J1Tah View Post
    Why do so many people just assume we are miserable and hate the game if we raid mythic? Do you really think we would put the hours in if we did not enjoy raiding mythic?
    First you say how you should play the game the way you want and then proceed to saying that we should quit because you don't enjoy raiding mythic.
    Of course not, that's ridiculous. xD Not that I'm pretending that it's your case specifically, some people don't care what spec they play, as long as it's the best one, and raid progression. That's a-ok.

    I don't like being 'worse' but I also have difficulty playing a spec I just don't like or can't get around the playstyle. But that is just me.

  2. #202
    It's important that you're able to pull your own weight.

    When talking about raiding, people are going to get frustrated if you're unable to do that. It doesn't matter which difficulty you're raiding at, though intensity and necessity for this obviously rises as the difficulty grows. In LFR you simply shouldn't be AFK and actively participate, whereas in Mythic "underperforming" specs might not be able to pull their own weight simply because of the challenging level of performance it demands from players, and from the group as a whole.

    Pulling your own weight, however, is not the same as playing the best spec for your class/role. Generally, specs and classes are fairly balanced in Legion, especially when compared to previous expansions. As long as you're a decent player with half a brain, you should be able to pull your own weight.

  3. #203
    Legendary! Rivellana's Avatar
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    I sure hope so.

    I'm playing a frost mage because I love it and don't like fire (which is tops right now). I'm waiting for balancing from Blizzard and hoping they will actually do it. Not just between frost and fire specs, but also between ranged and melee because it's very difficult for most casters to keep up with melee right now.

    My guild is fine with my spec, I've even done some mythic dungeons with my guild without any problems because of my spec.

    That being said, I'm afraid to try pugging difficult content because I don't want to be denied again and again because I didn't choose the spec that everyone wants. You know what I mean?

  4. #204
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsugunai View Post
    Mainly for PvE concerns, yeah. Let's just say, I'm someone who's only ever PvP'd and rushed into leveling Artfact power for a spec only really stated to acceptable for that this expac. When I finally discovered PvE is the real game and want to get into it, I'm pretty choked with regret now that I'm stuck with that spec.

    That said, there is the option to simply play this spec into PvE but to me, the game is only real at Mythic and I've heard in tryouts they'll reject you on sight based on what spec you are running. But are there ever exceptions? What I have on mind is Frost DK btw, and what I am regretting is likely not going Unholy since I tried tanking on the class and decided it's not for me.
    Its like, you walk down the street with a group of friends. It is acceptable to walk slower but at some point, people will get tired of walking slower just because someone likes to do it for an arbitrary reason.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiral Mage View Post
    Curious attitude that one MUST do Mythic and that "everyone should aim for that".

    Personally, I'd run a raiding guild for years and we -never- aimed for that. We were happy doing normal raids. Why? Because we all got together two nights a week and had fun on voice chat, joking and talking, and shit while downing bosses and getting loot. It aint the best loot in the game but who cares, man? The real reason you play a game is to have fun and that's precisely what we did. Meanwhile, my friends in hardcore guilds complained to me that I wasn't doing real content (because they wanted me to join whatever guild they were in, with them) but at the same time, guess how many of them were ever happy playing WoW? None. It was always a "gotta get the gear" treadmill to them and it made them miserable.

    So you tell me what's really important? Making yourself miserable chasing gear you'll replace before you can blink, or trying to kick back, have fun and feel good about what you're doing every night?

    I also never ask someone to swap specs unless it is a very serious problem. I took a look at the highs and lows, and made realistic assessments of what someone realistically should be doing. As long as you were somewhere in the realistic range, and not under the required DPS for a fight (back when we had hard DPS checks), then if you're enjoying your character, I'm happy for you.
    This guy gets it.

    You're spending your $15/month. Do what makes you happy.

  6. #206
    Yes but don't expect to get into premades unless you run with people who don't care. Stick to LFD/LFR, which is what I'll be doing mostly.

  7. #207
    Even if the sims show that one spec does more dps than another, you will still do better with the spec that you play the best. People aren't computers in a simulated environment.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiral Mage View Post
    Curious attitude that one MUST do Mythic and that "everyone should aim for that".

    Personally, I'd run a raiding guild for years and we -never- aimed for that. We were happy doing normal raids. Why? Because we all got together two nights a week and had fun on voice chat, joking and talking, and shit while downing bosses and getting loot. It aint the best loot in the game but who cares, man? The real reason you play a game is to have fun and that's precisely what we did. Meanwhile, my friends in hardcore guilds complained to me that I wasn't doing real content (because they wanted me to join whatever guild they were in, with them) but at the same time, guess how many of them were ever happy playing WoW? None. It was always a "gotta get the gear" treadmill to them and it made them miserable.

    So you tell me what's really important? Making yourself miserable chasing gear you'll replace before you can blink, or trying to kick back, have fun and feel good about what you're doing every night?

    I also never ask someone to swap specs unless it is a very serious problem. I took a look at the highs and lows, and made realistic assessments of what someone realistically should be doing. As long as you were somewhere in the realistic range, and not under the required DPS for a fight (back when we had hard DPS checks), then if you're enjoying your character, I'm happy for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by FobManX View Post
    This guy gets it.


    You're spending your $15/month. Do what makes you happy.
    Raiding makes me happy, and i am not happy if everyone in my raid team does not put in the effort that we all have agreed to put in. Thing is, i get it, not everyone wants to do that. But those who can't/won't/don't want to agree with this ("hardcore mentality") just don't have a chance raiding with us.

    OP is interested in this sort of enviroment (as i understood) and asked his question in this context. And in this context playing a weak spec is not generally accepted, with exceptions, of course. Strength of a spec is not only about DPS/HPS, it more often comes down to survivability and utility. If a spec has no better survivability or utility and does less damage aswell, more often people want to change for better spec themselves. Again in this context; people strive to play a class, rather than a spec.

    Training a spec is not that hard, in my personal experience. Especially early in expansions, when everything changes and you have to re-learn your spec anyway. And i cannot stress enough that i understand perfectly this, more "casual" approach to the game, it just doesn't belong in my scheduled raids. Outside of guild raiding (which is why i pay my 15e/month), i do what i want and play what i want, while waiting the next raid night.

    And to answer the question "Is it ever acceptable to play a weak spec you enjoy in PvE?" -Yes, but not in guilds with more serious approach to raiding.

    If we change the question into: "Is it ever acceptable to play a spec you enjoy in PvE?" -Yes and you definitely should, in every level of the game there is. If this is not available for your class, consider rerolling ^^
    Last edited by Stava; 2016-09-10 at 06:29 PM.
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  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel SnackyCakes View Post
    Yeah, they are. EVERYTHING is viable. some just make it easier.
    If you're aiming for fast and competitive progress in mythic raids, only the very best of the specs are viable. If I'm a mythic raid leader wanting to progress, I WILL bench you over the 5% less damage you have then the other guy. Its expected that you max out, and if your class is doing less damage then another in a comparable role, I expect you to reroll.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Magicpot View Post
    If you're aiming for fast and competitive progress in mythic raids, only the very best of the specs are viable. If I'm a mythic raid leader wanting to progress, I WILL bench you over the 5% less damage you have then the other guy. Its expected that you max out, and if your class is doing less damage then another in a comparable role, I expect you to reroll.
    I would tell you to get bent and take your guild as war booty.

  11. #211
    Of course is aceptable. Not optimal for world firsts and such, but if you really enjoy a spec, you work your ass out, and are more likely to get a spot in a good raiding guild.

    Example; Spec A is top, Spec B is bottom, but you play bottom and enjoy it. If you perform at the same level with the B Spec against those A Specced, you are the one thats going to have the spot, even if you dont change to the FOTM, because you are the one most likely to be most useful to your raid.

  12. #212
    Bloodsail Admiral Cien's Avatar
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    people have been bitching about retri left right and centre but im loving it in pve, and im tearing shit up in pvp too so im very happy playing what i 'enjoy' rather than whats fotm

  13. #213
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicpot View Post
    If you're aiming for fast and competitive progress in mythic raids, only the very best of the specs are viable. If I'm a mythic raid leader wanting to progress, I WILL bench you over the 5% less damage you have then the other guy. Its expected that you max out, and if your class is doing less damage then another in a comparable role, I expect you to reroll.
    People that "EXPECT" other people to do things in Video games are the scummiest type.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Even if the sims show that one spec does more dps than another, you will still do better with the spec that you play the best. People aren't computers in a simulated environment.
    Are we playing the same game? Or are you just that bad at learning new/different specs?

  15. #215
    Herald of the Titans Murderdoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel SnackyCakes View Post
    Everything is still Viable. All classes are tuned to be Viable. People just see the ones that are overtuned and assume everything else is unviable. Stupidity generally does this.
    2H Frost and Survival were NOT Viable specs in HFC.

    They were not tuned to be viable. Mythic has been created in the sense that not everyone is equal. Get that through your head.

    Not everyone is viable in Mythic content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Amantino View Post
    Are we playing the same game? Or are you just that bad at learning new/different specs?
    THis is the excuse people use when they dont want to play anything else.

  16. #216
    Start your own group and do whatever you want.
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  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel SnackyCakes View Post
    People that "EXPECT" other people to do things in Video games are the scummiest type.
    When you are running a 20man mythic group, you HAVE TO expect people to:
    1. Show up on raid nights, or atleast inform the officers if they can't
    2. Put a certain amount of effort in their character
    3. That players try to give their best in boss fights
    4. That people do certain amount of research about their class/spec and boss fights.

    Thing is, when you apply to a guild that expects things, you agree to meet these expectations. If you don't, buh-bye.
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  18. #218
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    They were not tuned to be viable. Mythic has been created in the sense that not everyone is equal. Get that through your head.

    Not everyone is viable in Mythic content.
    That's unacceptable, WE pay them 75 MILLIONS PER MONTH, and the least one can expect is for them to get their shit together and make ALL specs viable.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Amantino View Post
    Are we playing the same game? Or are you just that bad at learning new/different specs?
    Yes. Unlike YOU, not everyone is good at everything they do. If it were, we would not have multiple difficulties and be capable of chasing world first in raid and reach the highest rank in PvP.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    Yes. Unlike YOU, not everyone is good at everything they do. If it were, we would not have multiple difficulties and be capable of chasing world first in raid and reach the highest rank in PvP.
    I'm not doing any of those things, nor am I good at everything I do. But I will always aim to become better, especially if I'm bad at something. This is a mmorpg where you play with others, and you should not hold them back because you're too stubborn to learn how to press 4 buttons in a different order.

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