Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[Deleted]

Touch of the void is not a trinket acquired from WoD mythic dungeons. So if the guy is riight, then tracking charm got somehow hit too..?

yeah it was nerfed. The dmg procc now only does half of the dmg it has done before (was around 100k, now only ~60k).

[Sazda]

Was trying to find some information about the "Mark of the Sentinel" 840 trinket I got last night, but it does not seem to appear in your list. Did you just ignore it because of its random secondary (unfortunately I got versatility), or is it just bad enough regardless to be ignored?

[Azortharion]

Was trying to find some information about the "Mark of the Sentinel" 840 trinket I got last night, but it does not seem to appear in your list. Did you just ignore it because of its random secondary (unfortunately I got versatility), or is it just bad enough regardless to be ignored?

MM: http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/marksma...s-best-in-slot
BM: http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/beast-m...s-best-in-slot
SV: http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/surviva...s-best-in-slot

The "Three-Toed" trinket in these sims are the same as Mark of the Sentinel (there are 3 trinkets with different names that give the same stats per iLvl), so you're looking for Three-Toed Vers in those sims. Those sims are all 850, not cross-iLvl though.

[Deleted]

Is the Egg of Serpentrix not included yet? I'm kinda interested in how good it is. It's sick when you have several proccs at once and you have 3 little worms spitting fire at the enemy.

[Brox]

Is the Egg of Serpentrix not included yet? I'm kinda interested in how good it is. It's sick when you have several proccs at once and you have 3 little worms spitting fire at the enemy.

It's the most random trinket I have ever had. One fight did something like 2.9k damage, another one 1 mil

[Sazda]

Thanks Azor, that helps a lot. That is pretty decent then pre-raid.

[Effinhunter]

Stat Plots for 840/870 ilvl for each spec

As I've mentioned before, I dislike stat weights/scale factors as general theorycrafting advice. I've posted them here because people like them for Pawn and what not, but for many specs, using them is likely to cause more confusion than usefulness. One such spec is definitely survival, especially in 2+ targets, and I'll show you why in just a moment. I'm posting these in hopes that the Simcraft source files will help others with gauging their best gear paths for upgrades with non-trinkets, especially. I generally run these for my own gear at least once a mythic tier, unless it is obvious from the curves that the slopes are smooth and there are no inflection points. I'm posting 1, 3 and 6 target breakdowns in hopes that it helps people understand the gearing options available for the scenarios you are working on.

Single Target, 20k iterations, 450s +/- 20%

BM, Simcraft Source


MM, Simcraft Source


SV, Simcraft Source


Three Target, 20k iterations, 450s +/- 20%

BM, Simcraft Source


MM, Simcraft Source


SV, Simcraft Source


Note how SV deviates especially along its curves. This makes stat weights/scale factors change significantly within a tier (even within gearing profiles within the same difficulty of a tier). MM and BM also have inflection points here. They are just less pronounced.

Six Target, 20k iterations, 450s +/- 20%

BM, Simcraft Source


MM, Simcraft Source


SV, Simcraft Source


Now, look at the lines for BM and MM. As you can see, at our current 840/870 gear levels, haste and mastery are frequently interleaving and as you gear, they will be excellent targets for your gear well into EN. Crit looks like it also perform well in multi-target for MM, especially, and versatility and crit are obviously best candidates for SV. Look at the volatility in the scaling of any other stats for SV, especially in AoE situations.

For BM, I am using an AoE talent build for 3 and 6 targets. The other specs I just kept with single target talents. The Simcraft Source files are provided for anyone who would like to substitute in their own gear and run their own sims. I'll update first post with these new plots. If you find any issues, feel free to bring them up and I'll change them.

[Deleted]

What is the deal with Flaking strike? Is i am doing something wrong?
"Flanking strike has double the normal chance to trigger Hunting Companion"
I have 50% mastery so every single FS should be a MB reset but it isnt...

[3clipse]

What is the deal with Flaking strike? Is i am doing something wrong?
"Flanking strike has double the normal chance to trigger Hunting Companion"
I have 50% mastery so every single FS should be a MB reset but it isnt...

Mouse over the mastery, 50% mastery does not equal 50% Hunting Companion because lulz.

[Effinhunter]

I am restarting sims with some new trinkets, but I have a question. Right now, simcraft allows us to sim the Devilsaur Shock-Baton for hunters, and it's simming very well in my new list (roughly same as Naraxas, due to some of our nature-damage-based attacks). However, I have yet to talk to any hunter that had this available in their world quest instead of the Devilsaur's Bite. Has anyone actually seen this trinket on their hunter? I'm assuming it's only appearing for casters since every warlock, mage, shadow priest, etc. in my guild got this instead of the bite.

I'm going to probably drop this trinket from the new listing unless people would like to see it in case Blizzard starts allowing us to get it, or if someone has actually managed to get it.

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Edit: I'm just going to resume the full run with it included. For now, just disregard it for the reasons noted in this post.

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MM now has the new trinkets included for single target. Everything else is still in queue/running.
http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

Essentially, the mastery-based rabbit's foot (or any stat stick equivalent, including the PvP world quest trinket), Hunger of the Pack, and Devil's Shock-Baton (which again, I don't believe we cannot currently get, but this is a theorycrafting thread, so some latitude here is appreciated).

[Penguintamer]

I am restarting sims with some new trinkets, but I have a question. Right now, simcraft allows us to sim the Devilsaur Shock-Baton for hunters, and it's simming very well in my new list (roughly same as Naraxas, due to some of our nature-damage-based attacks). However, I have yet to talk to any hunter that had this available in their world quest instead of the Devilsaur's Bite. Has anyone actually seen this trinket on their hunter? I'm assuming it's only appearing for casters since every warlock, mage, shadow priest, etc. in my guild got this instead of the bite.

I'm going to probably drop this trinket from the new listing unless people would like to see it in case Blizzard starts allowing us to get it, or if someone has actually managed to get it.

- - - Updated - - -

Edit: I'm just going to resume the full run with it included. For now, just disregard it for the reasons noted in this post.

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MM now has the new trinkets included for single target. Everything else is still in queue/running.
http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

Essentially, the mastery-based rabbit's foot (or any stat stick equivalent, including the PvP world quest trinket), Hunger of the Pack, and Devil's Shock-Baton (which again, I don't believe we cannot currently get, but this is a theorycrafting thread, so some latitude here is appreciated).

Is that gear in the link you posted considered our pre-raid Best in Slot at the moment? (titanforged/sockets aside). I know crit very slightly edges out haste at the moment and right now I only have 1820 haste and ~4000 crit.

[Effinhunter]

Is that gear in the link you posted considered our pre-raid Best in Slot at the moment? (titanforged/sockets aside). I know crit very slightly edges out haste at the moment and right now I only have 1820 haste and ~4000 crit.

No, pre-raid bis is mostly 850 crafted gear. However, most of the T19P profiles bandied about have been mythic dungeon sets with haste/mastery focus.

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All trinket sims except for BM six target are updated. BM six target won't be updated until tomorrow. BTW, supposedly the Devilsaur's Bite is hotfixed, so that should move up the next time I run these.

[Koochulu]

Since raids aren't opening for 10 days ish and you seem to be doing these sims rather frequently, is there any way you can do these with obtainable trinkets at the moment? Sifting through each line is making my eyes bleed.

[Effinhunter]

Since raids aren't opening for 10 days ish and you seem to be doing these sims rather frequently, is there any way you can do these with obtainable trinkets at the moment? Sifting through each line is making my eyes bleed.

Sorry, once I have all the trinkets in here, I need to color code them so current content and immediately next content is easier to find. I understand the frustration, and I will work to make it easier.

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I am messing with the MM trinket sims and others are proofreading the results. For the moment, please disregard the MM single target trinket sims. You can sort of see how the color-coding is going to work, but one of the trinkets had the wrong Wowhead id, and I need to rerun the sim. I'll update the thread when the list is stable again.

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Alright, latest MM trinket sim for single target should have the color coding. Going to rerun for all trinket sims and upload the color-coded versions. Will not finish until later tomorrow.

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MM single target trinket sims: http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

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BTW, I'm being told that this latest simcraft version does not include the hotfix to Devilsaur's Bite so it is still underperforming in sims. Also, remember that the Shock-Baton was just a hypothetical in case Blizzard allowed it to drop for us in the world quest.

[Deleted]

How did Devilsaur's Bite change?
What was wrong with it in the first place? Did it not proc often enough?

[Effinhunter]

From what I understand, they were tuning it upwards so it was more roughly equivalent with the caster dps trinket contribution (the shock-baton).

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SV single target trinket sims updated with color-coding: http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

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BM and SV six target trinket sims are still running, but the MM trinket sims should all be updated with color-coding and legends, as well as the BM and SV one and three target sims for trinkets.

[Dumdidum]

Should I use an 850 Relic with cobra shot dmg over an 825 one with beast cleave dmg?
I just dont think the 6 ilvl on weapon would outweight 10% beast cleave dmg in an aoe situation and I only plan on using bm in mythic+, but Im not 100% sure on this.

[Azortharion]

Furious Swipes trait is worth the same as ~18-19 raw item levels on 3 targets. This number increases as you add more targets.

See sims: http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/beast-m...ps-simulations

I'd probably switch out the Beast Cleave one.

[Koochulu]

Where did you hear about the buff to the Devilsaur's Bite? I can't seem to find anything.

[Azortharion]

Blizzard has stepped back from publishing or documenting any changes to the game, but if you are good friends with a GM you can get a list of things that changes with each hotfix.