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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Or maybe your definition of "not doing shit" is different. Let's look at the facts:

    1. Shadow AOE is horrible right now. You can't dispute this, not without bringing some magical "multi dots in mythic+10" scenario which isn't in the game at the moment.
    2. Low AOE means low damage on trash. Again, can't really argue this - especially with some classes having AOE as part of their single target rotation, thus losing nothing when they do it.
    3. Trash make up for majority of dungeon run time. Therefore, for the most of the dungeon you're not doing much to contribute.

    Simple enough, right? You can spec Shadowcrash or Void Ray to mitigate some of that, but that in turn lowers your boss dps, thus making you weaker in one area where spec is doing "decently". You can spec Surrender to Madness and probably top meters on one or two bosses - assuming it even lives long enough to gain the actual benefit from the talent. It still won't make you dominate the meters to the same extent you're lagging behind on trash.

    Or maybe you're just that much better than other shadow priests - all of them are unskilled noobs who don't know how to play, right?
    I don't spec shadow crash because it's pointless. Void ray is terrible, why even toss that out as an option. I'm behind on trash but again I knew that coming in the expansion. Boss fights I'm top. The aggression from these posts. Focus your rage elsewhere. These are first level mythics that everyone is falling out over. Of course the bosses and trash are falling over. What are the bosses like 60 million hp. That's nothing. I see an issue with what some people are describing. Like 110k dps at 833 ilvl is really low even if you don't have the best stats. I've seen spriests take less than optimal paths on their artifacts (ie taking sphere first beause its "good on aoe") I've seen spriests not go into VF at all on trash and then complain about trash damage. How do you even expect to do damage if you don't go into Void Form? People with low dot uptimes complaing that damage is bad. Complaing about boss mechanics (knockbacks etc) when they could just adapt to them.

    I never called anyone a noob, stop projecting. Saying there is some improvement that can be made in play is not calling someone a noob. I'm trying to be constructive while others are just being destructive.

  2. #162
    Guys , do you ever refresh a dot during voidform?(vs multiple targets ofc) i find it hard to keep them all refreshed with void bolt alone on all targets

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aizen244 View Post
    Guys , do you ever refresh a dot during voidform?(vs multiple targets ofc) i find it hard to keep them all refreshed with void bolt alone on all targets
    you should be able to handle 2 target refreshing no problem and 3 targets is manageable. 4 is going to be pushing it probably. Void Eruption/Void Bolt mousover macro does wonders for refreshing.

  4. #164
    I switched some things and im trying to maintain dots all the the time and refresh them with mouseover , if it goes VERY well i can pull about 200k dps but its not easy, multidoting is easy and maintain dots but refreshing is a bit hard.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aizen244 View Post
    I switched some things and im trying to maintain dots all the the time and refresh them with mouseover , if it goes VERY well i can pull about 200k dps but its not easy, multidoting is easy and maintain dots but refreshing is a bit hard.
    200k is good. You said you didn't have the best stats on your gear so I'm assuming that means low haste. When you get more haste the rotation starts to feel a little better/more fluid. I think around 20% is when I noticed it starting to feel a bit better. I'm at around 25% haste now and it feels great. Keeping up dots is essential to our damage (they make up a HUGE portion of our damage this expac)

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by justflayin View Post
    I don't spec shadow crash because it's pointless. Void ray is terrible, why even toss that out as an option. I'm behind on trash but again I knew that coming in the expansion. Boss fights I'm top. The aggression from these posts. Focus your rage elsewhere. These are first level mythics that everyone is falling out over. Of course the bosses and trash are falling over. What are the bosses like 60 million hp. That's nothing. I see an issue with what some people are describing. Like 110k dps at 833 ilvl is really low even if you don't have the best stats. I've seen spriests take less than optimal paths on their artifacts (ie taking sphere first beause its "good on aoe") I've seen spriests not go into VF at all on trash and then complain about trash damage. How do you even expect to do damage if you don't go into Void Form? People with low dot uptimes complaing that damage is bad. Complaing about boss mechanics (knockbacks etc) when they could just adapt to them.

    I never called anyone a noob, stop projecting. Saying there is some improvement that can be made in play is not calling someone a noob. I'm trying to be constructive while others are just being destructive.
    The fact that you knew beforehand that you'd be behind on trash isn't exactly a good argument against the fact that SP is bad in dungeons (including Mythic+). Basically your argument is "We knew SP is gonna be shit so SP isn't shit." which doesn't make terribly much sense.

    In addition to that, if you're ahead in single target fights without S2M, the other DPS in your group either suck, also play shitty specs or they're way undergeared. This has nothing to do with anybody's play either - it's just the way classes are currently balanced with currently available gear. If I sim my character (846 with close to 10000 haste) with different fight durations, the highest I'm able to reach is ~300k DPS with an ideal fight duration (short enough for bloodlust to be up most of the fight, long enough to reach enough void form stacks) and at ~220k for more standard durations or without bloodlust. At the same time, our similarly geared WW Monk (who also completely destroys trash) is sitting at ~250k for longer fights and up to 350k for shorter ones (~ 1 minute which is standard for mythic bosses at the moment). So priest being the weakest class (counting just the strongest specs for each class because other classes have that choice) for trash in the game you still have less single target DPS in current gear than one of the two strongest AoE classes currently in the game. This isn't even about WW considering WW is actually below average when it comes to melees. E.g. outlaw rogues in similar gear easily pull a consistent >300k no matter the fight duration and can peak >500k DPS over the course of a mythic boss fight and they're still way better for trash than SPs. All of this is based on my in-game experience doing mythic runs with actually competent players and is completely consistent with simulations (making it unlikely for either to be incorrect).

  7. #167
    You can blame blizzard

    In past, spriest gave mana and healing in raids but didn't deal great dps. Now blizzard only have taken away tools that gave you spot in anywhere, and didn't make your dps great at all.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT4 View Post
    The fact that you knew beforehand that you'd be behind on trash isn't exactly a good argument against the fact that SP is bad in dungeons (including Mythic+). Basically your argument is "We knew SP is gonna be shit so SP isn't shit." which doesn't make terribly much sense.

    In addition to that, if you're ahead in single target fights without S2M, the other DPS in your group either suck, also play shitty specs or they're way undergeared. This has nothing to do with anybody's play either - it's just the way classes are currently balanced with currently available gear. If I sim my character (846 with close to 10000 haste) with different fight durations, the highest I'm able to reach is ~300k DPS with an ideal fight duration (short enough for bloodlust to be up most of the fight, long enough to reach enough void form stacks) and at ~220k for more standard durations or without bloodlust. At the same time, our similarly geared WW Monk (who also completely destroys trash) is sitting at ~250k for longer fights and up to 350k for shorter ones (~ 1 minute which is standard for mythic bosses at the moment). So priest being the weakest class (counting just the strongest specs for each class because other classes have that choice) for trash in the game you still have less single target DPS in current gear than one of the two strongest AoE classes currently in the game. This isn't even about WW considering WW is actually below average when it comes to melees. E.g. outlaw rogues in similar gear easily pull a consistent >300k no matter the fight duration and can peak >500k DPS over the course of a mythic boss fight and they're still way better for trash than SPs. All of this is based on my in-game experience doing mythic runs with actually competent players and is completely consistent with simulations (making it unlikely for either to be incorrect).
    I wasn't making an argument about anything with the I'm behind on trash statement. Us being terrible on trash is a reality everyone needs to come to grips with and learn how to play around. Sitting here complaing about it and attacking people because they don't share your ire is pointless and regressive. I said I don't feel like I'm perfomring poorly in dungeons because I'm not that far behind people on trash. Me meaning My experience. The people I dps with are all within 2 or 3 ilvl of me. So thanks for insulting me play and others because your math doesn't back up what I'm saying. I'm excelling in areas that shadow does excel in. People are saying they're behind on bosses and that's a problem because they shouldn't be. That guy right there said he's doing closer to 200k now from like low 100s just be adjusting play. Obviously our aoe is in a bad state not once have I argued that or said that it isn't true. You just feel the need to trash people and I don't understand why. We're all in the same boat here.

  9. #169
    I just got kicked from a grp, im shit.

    there fixed your title

  10. #170
    Being kicked for damage in heroics should not be allowed. Seriously, kick mechanic needs removed. The only legitimate reasons are afk/offline, or actually not getting into combat for x period of time. You should also be able to leave without penalty. This game is out not even 2 weeks and it's a joke how easily I go through those things. I'm dpsing as a holy pally longer than I'm healing, and I'm doing 130k in most cases. What reason should I have to kick someone?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcrin View Post
    I just got kicked from a grp, im shit.

    there fixed your title
    So elitist about Heroics.

  11. #171
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    blow cds on trash yes

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by SirreASDF View Post
    brain dead demon hunter
    I get that shadow is a hard spec to play, but you won't find any sympathy from anyone if you start insulting other classes. Momentum isn't a brain dead rotation.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by justflayin View Post
    I wasn't making an argument about anything with the I'm behind on trash statement. Us being terrible on trash is a reality everyone needs to come to grips with and learn how to play around.
    1) There is no "playing around" with the current design of the spec. That's the whole fucking point. SP has no ability that comes even remotely close to what some other classes can put out. Even at 30 void form stacks, both my DoTs combined barely outdamage a single Strike of the Wind Lord (let alone the Fists of Fury afterwards) - the latter taking one GCD and hitting everything while putting up my DoTs takes two GCDs per target and then the targets have to live for the duration of the DoTs. At the same time, mind sear's damage is so pathetically low that some trinket procs are doing more than it. Shadow Crash means you'll be significantly behind on bosses compared to properly played melees (and many other classes as well) and it still doesn't do half the damage of other classes' AoEs while having a completely unnecessary delay as well. Typically, your best bet for "AoE" is to put a DoT on each target and then "AoE" with void eruption which is absolutely pathetic compared to most other classes' options.

    2) The point is that Blizzard needs to do something about SPs (and some other specs) being so far behind when it comes to dungeons because Mythic+ now actually makes dungeon balance relevant for end-game gearing. Posts like yours give people the impression that SPs are fine in dungeons when they're absolutely not and you'd absolutely be better off taking one of many other classes if they're only half-decent, no matter how good the SP.

    Sitting here complaing about it and attacking people because they don't share your ire is pointless and regressive. I said I don't feel like I'm perfomring poorly in dungeons because I'm not that far behind people on trash. Me meaning My experience. The people I dps with are all within 2 or 3 ilvl of me. So thanks for insulting me play and others because your math doesn't back up what I'm saying. I'm excelling in areas that shadow does excel in. People are saying they're behind on bosses and that's a problem because they shouldn't be. That guy right there said he's doing closer to 200k now from like low 100s just be adjusting play. Obviously our aoe is in a bad state not once have I argued that or said that it isn't true. You just feel the need to trash people and I don't understand why. We're all in the same boat here.
    You're being delusional.

    First off, this isn't "my maths", this is maths, simulations and people who have actually done high mythic+ on beta. Everybody is going to tell you SP is bad in dungeons because the class simply doesn't have the tools to perform well in dungeons right now. If you don't believe me, ask any of the serenity streamers and they'll tell you the exact same.

    Secondly, if you're "not that far behind people on trash", that absolutely means they're either not playing well or they're playing bad specs as well. In my main's mythic group (which is already having one very sub-par spec with me as a SP and one somewhat sub-par one with a destruction warlock), low HP trash pretty much dies in 3 seconds max and average HP trash (basically any enemy in standard 3-6 mob packs) dies in around 10-20 seconds depending on the other DPS' cooldowns (sometimes not even the first DoT I put up while the tank jumps in gets to run out). Feel free to explain to me how with your awesome play you pull >>400k DPS on those packs (tip: you can't).

    Thirdly, whether some people don't play the spec properly and do sub-par single target DPS doesn't change the fact that SPs (in current gear without S2M) aren't great at single target either. Well played melees are pulling at least 300k and oftentimes significantly more than that on typical mythic dungeon boss fights so for you to do "excellent in that area" you'd have to be doing close to 400k or higher. Please show me any evidence of you doing that much DPS for mythic dungeon bosses (without S2M for obvious reasons).
    Last edited by GT4; 2016-09-11 at 04:16 PM.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT4 View Post
    Salt.
    Go outside and take a breath.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by justflayin View Post
    Go outside and take a breath.
    So you don't have any arguments nor evidence of you doing as well as you're claiming? I thought so.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT4 View Post
    So you don't have any arguments nor evidence of you doing as well as you're claiming? I thought so.
    I don't log dungeons because why and I don't snap shot my dps meters because again why? I have nothing to prove to you if you think I'm not doing well because you know that in your heart ride with that friend. And no I'm not arguing with someone who's clearly too upset to listen to anything. I'm sorry shadow is so bad for you. Perhaps try hunter or mage? They seem easier and more up your ally.

  17. #177
    Ok , i will take back what i said , shadow priest can probably pull decent damage even on trash but im not sure if the skillcap required to pull this really worth it , if you dot anything follow a perfect rotation then refresh every single dot with void bolt then a 200k+ is easily atainable , if you add shadowcrash into this then the dps will be even more , personally i play dps so i wont have to look into frames and bars , this playstyle is no different than playing a healer at all , trash become extremely tedious , other classes can do the same with 2 buttons , i just dont see why you should have to do so much stuff against trash lvl mobs

  18. #178
    At ~840 ilvl I run SC, SI and LotV with a haste build and i'm seeing 300-400k+ on a good pull. Meaning going in with Voidform ready asap, saving crash until in VF, juggling VB to keep dots up and running. Bad pull is atleast over 200k now.
    Not saying that's great, and obviously it depends on the groups setup and kill times.

    Also the mechanics themselves works against us. I find that I often end a trash pack in VF just to start the next with 0 Insanity. Tanks not chain pulling isn't helping either.

    But yeah, we got a choice here. Either we're slightly better at aoe with single target suffering, or we're good single target with aoe suffering.
    Just pick one and go from there, but don't expect to excel at both at the same time. It's never going to happen.

    On another note, anyone tried a haste+mastery build for dungeons yet? I imagine that's the way to go. Both stats will be boosting eachother, scaling insanely good.
    Last edited by Juicebox; 2016-09-11 at 04:50 PM.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    I get that shadow is a hard spec to play, but you won't find any sympathy from anyone if you start insulting other classes. Momentum isn't a brain dead rotation.
    Not insulting anyone, just calmly stating that you do not need to play an super advanced way to perform well in dungeons as a DH, because we both know that Momentum is not the only way to play a DH. There are certanly ways to play it that in this case, I refered to as brain dead.. Much like pressing whatever glows on the Frost DK..

    Ie, it was a comment about one spec being easier than another, yet performing miles better.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by justflayin View Post
    I don't log dungeons because why and I don't snap shot my dps meters because again why? I have nothing to prove to you if you think I'm not doing well because you know that in your heart ride with that friend.
    If you're making claims, you kind of have something to prove. If you're not providing any evidence nor arguments, why would anybody take your claims seriously? This isn't about anybody's heart either, it's about using your brain.

    And no I'm not arguing with someone who's clearly too upset to listen to anything.
    You take formulated arguments and evidence as being upset? That tells more about you than about me.

    I'm sorry shadow is so bad for you. Perhaps try hunter or mage? They seem easier and more up your ally.
    I'm sorry you have to resort to implied attacks on me because you can't find any arguments for your claims. Considering that I'm playing SP because my guild needed one for raids and considering that I've had dozens of #1 rankings on multi-dotting classes (including SP) - as well as other classes - I'd say SP is "up my ally" and a class being easier isn't exactly a concern of mine either.

    Have a nice day in your bubble.

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