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  1. #21
    I'm going to have to agree with squirtle on this one. They definitely said that their ultimate purpose was to stop Deathwing when he goes mad, and once that purpose was fulfilled, they would no longer be blessed with titan magic.

    But I think what both sides seem to be arguing is the same point. Their destiny was to defeat Deathwing, that was their purpose. They were always meant to pour their essence into the Dragon Soul, so the act of channeling their powers to the weapon is in fact fulfilling their destiny set in action by Tyr thousands of years ago.

    TLRD: Fulfilling their destiny = channeling their essence into the Dragon Soul. Both are adequate explanations because both are the same thing said differently.
    Last edited by Firminator; 2016-09-09 at 01:35 PM.

  2. #22
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal123 View Post
    the aspects sacrificed their power to defeat deathwing.
    What I don't get is why this effects all other dragons and makes them impotent, are all dragons meant to by hive mind or something?

    And if they are, could they not breed then while they were still protodrakes, because I'm pretty sure protodrakes have no problem breeding.

  3. #23
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    What I don't get is why this effects all other dragons and makes them impotent, are all dragons meant to by hive mind or something?

    And if they are, could they not breed then while they were still protodrakes, because I'm pretty sure protodrakes have no problem breeding.
    The chromatic Dragonflights have an element of binding to their Aspect, such as when Neltharion was corrupted by the Old Gods this also led to the general corruption of the Black Dragonflight. This connectivity isn't a hive mind, per se - but they share a common essence and the expenditure of the Aspects' Titanic power at the Hour of Twilight seems to have depleted them not just as individuals but also a race of beings. The proto-drake, elemental, and non-chromatic Dragonflights didn't have an Aspect and so weren't effected by this event and though they're not generally as powerful as a given chromatic dragon they remain at their full strength and can breed normally.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  4. #24
    So are nether dragons effected by this? Seems like such a stupid plot to say they can't breed anymore, when only 5 of them had aspect powers to begin with.

  5. #25
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    So are nether dragons effected by this? Seems like such a stupid plot to say they can't breed anymore, when only 5 of them had aspect powers to begin with.
    Unsure the Nether dragons are still connected to their parent Aspect (e.g. Deathwing) due to their physiological changes as a result of Nether saturation. Given the preponderance of the Twilight Dragonflight I'm not sure the Nether dragons exist anymore - perhaps they're still chilling out in Outland or they may have been harvested in their entirety.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Unsure the Nether dragons are still connected to their parent Aspect (e.g. Deathwing) due to their physiological changes as a result of Nether saturation. Given the preponderance of the Twilight Dragonflight I'm not sure the Nether dragons exist anymore - perhaps they're still chilling out in Outland or they may have been harvested in their entirety.
    There are still plenty left on outland, especially the ones we saved and befriended. The nether changes disconnected them from their aspects.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Unsure the Nether dragons are still connected to their parent Aspect (e.g. Deathwing) due to their physiological changes as a result of Nether saturation. Given the preponderance of the Twilight Dragonflight I'm not sure the Nether dragons exist anymore - perhaps they're still chilling out in Outland or they may have been harvested in their entirety.
    Wasn't only a handful of nether dragons brought over in Night of the Dragon? I'm sure that since there was a few different Nether Dragon nests that they're still out there.

    Also, i thought that most of the twilight dragons we faced in Cataclysm and Dragonsoul raid were originally Red Eggs stolen by Halion. Alexstraza even says "They are no longer my..." something.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    The nether changes disconnected them from their aspects.
    Maybe a few more need to be kidnapped and experimented on, to make more nether babies! Maybe Wrathion is busy atm, doing just this.

    I wonder if Goriona is effected by this and where she's at now.

  8. #28
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Wasn't only a handful of nether dragons brought over in Night of the Dragon? I'm sure that since there was a few different Nether Dragon nests that they're still out there.

    Also, i thought that most of the twilight dragons we faced in Cataclysm and Dragonsoul raid were originally Red Eggs stolen by Halion. Alexstraza even says "They are no longer my..." something.
    Sintharia took an unknown number of their eggs, presumably creating the Twilight Dragonflight (which was very numerous towards the close of Cata) for Deathwing. In "Night of the Dragon" the Twilight Dragons were somehow infused with the essence of the Nether drake or dragon overlaid on top of a normal chromatic dragon, so unless the process changed I'd think each stolen Red dragon was fused with a Nether dragon to make the resulting Twilight dragon.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  9. #29
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    I honestly wish they would just make a resolution to this and make whatever bound element the dragons had to the aspects to be broken and they gain independence from the rule. It might just mean no dragon is then allied with any other and can do whatever they like, which would at least spread them out and repopulate the species.
    I really don't like this whole 'the golden rule of one is the sum of all others' crap. Its the same deal when it comes to faction leaders as the standard of character for that entire race.

  10. #30
    I believe its stated somewhere that deathwing had to be unmade via dragon soul because he couldn't be killed by any other means.
    Malygos was more normal.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Solonar View Post
    Because Deathwing was the most powerful of all Aspects. Malygos was mad, Deathwing was mad but also empowered/corrupted by the Old Gods. It took all four Aspects besides him and a substitute for Earthwarder in order to take down the one Aspect with the power to split the world.
    TLDR: Malygos was completely in his right mind and acting as the Aspect of Magic during WotLK, policing its use and judging the mortal races too reckless to use it anymore. Like a kid who won't stop putting the end of sticks into a campfire and then waving it all around in the woods being told they can't put sticks into the fire anymore, because they can't be trusted to act responsibly with it.

    Actually, Malygos was mad when Deathwing murdered his flight, and remained in a lethargic depressed state for 10,000 years. He wasn't himself for a long time, until the Shadow Wing manga spinoff from the Sunwell Trilogy manga, where nether drakes from Outland travel to the Nexus because they think it's their birthright, and they attack. Malygos comes out, being like "who the heck do you think you are" and they say something along the line of "we are mana" or Malygos sensed how they were both physical and incorporeal at the same time, composed of energy, and he said something like "yes, you are mana..." and he absorbed them, killing them, but it restored his sanity. Then he saw what mortal use of magic had done to the world.

    1. The Night Elf Empire's reckless use of the Well of Eternity attracted the Burning Legion, and caused the Sundering, as well as the murder of so many of Malygos' children and mates.

    2. The human magi of Dalaran gave no heed to the lessons of the High Elves, and didn't follow their example to build runestones to mask their use of magic from the Legion. This attracted the Legion again. Before the human's use of magic, the Burning Legion thought that Azeroth had been destroyed by the Sundering and never would have given it a second thought. But they knew it was there again, and came to take it over. Rather than do what the High Elves did, they instead decided they knew better, and made a bandaid solution with the Tirisgarde and a "spearhead," a concept which would later be rehashed as the Council of Tirisfal and the Guardian. This did nothing to keep the Legion from coming, only to help kill them when they came.

    3. This resulted in the Old Horde's invasion when Medivh, corrupted by Sargeras because Aegwynn was just as arrogant and pompous as the founders of the Tirisgarde (who thought they knew better than the High Elves and that the Legion wasn't as big a deal as their history books claimed), summoned the Horde and set in motion a lot of calamitous events like the Lich King, the Scourge, the Legion's second invasion during the Third War which decimated entire continents (including the Dragonblight and Dragonshrines, sacred to the flights), etc, etc.


    Just a lot of crazy events that did a lot of damage to Azeroth and its people, all because of the rampant, reckless, unrestrained use of arcane magic. Malygos was appointed as the guardian of arcane magic on Azeroth, tasked with protecting and policing its use. It was his call to make, and he decided that the mortal races couldn't be trusted with magic, and so he began to take it from them by sucking all the ley lines of Azeroth to the Blue Dragon's home in the Nexus.

    The mortal races didn't like this, because without arcane, how could they win against the Scourge? They also just really liked it. It was like electricity for us. We could never imagine living in a world without electricity again, it would be chaos.

    So, once again, Dalaran was in over its head by tackling both the Scourge and the Blue Dragonflight, so they asked the Blood Elves for help as always, of course not apologizing for their cowardly betrayal of Kael'thas during the Third War, without which, Kael'thas would never have gone down the path he did, but Lor'themar grudgingly let Aethas and his human-loving sycophantic followers go to Dalaran and form the Sunreavers.

    Malygos wasn't going to let the mortals (but mostly Dalaran) continue using magic because in his eyes, it was only a matter of time before they did another stupid mistake that resulted in a catastrophic event for Azeroth. But the mortal races wouldn't give up the arcane, so Malygos had to forcibly stop them, meaning he had to go to war with them.

    Now, Alexstrasza is the guardian of life on Azeroth, and because Malygos' job meant he had to kill the people committing the crime because they refused to stop committing the crime, Alexstrasza decided she had to go to war with Malygos.


    So Alexstrasza, guardian of life, rather than supporting her close friend the Guardian of Magic, who is the final authority on its use on Azeroth, by helping him convince the mortal races to give up magic, she decides she knows better and opposes him.


    It's like a guy murders someone, is running from the police, with no remorse for his actions, only afraid of being punished, and his family who loves him helps him hide and avoid the police. Rather than facing the proper repercussions for his actions, the mercy of loved ones robs the public of justice.

    Malygos is the police, mortals are the murderer, and Alexstrasza is the family, helping them avoid the consequences as decreed by the final authority in that area.


    She interferes with Malygos' edict that they must give up magic or die, but does not interfere when the mortal races are ruthlessly killing each other. Kind of wierd, but whatever.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Firminator View Post
    I'm going to have to agree with squirtle on this one. They definitely said that their ultimate purpose was to stop Deathwing when he goes mad, and once that purpose was fulfilled, they would no longer be blessed with titan magic.

    But I think what both sides seem to be arguing is the same point. Their destiny was to defeat Deathwing, that was their purpose. They were always meant to pour their essence into the Dragon Soul, so the act of channeling their powers to the weapon is in fact fulfilling their destiny set in action by Tyr thousands of years ago.

    TLRD: Fulfilling their destiny = channeling their essence into the Dragon Soul. Both are adequate explanations because both are the same thing said differently.
    So the dragon aspects' destiny was to defeat Deathwing, and Deathwing is Neltharian the earth warder, and Neltharian is a dragon aspect, and the dragon aspects' destiny was to defeat Deathwing, and Deathwing is Neltharian the earth warder, and Neltharian is a dragon aspect, and the dragon aspects' destiny was to defeat Deathwing, and Deathwing is Neltharian the earth warder, and Neltharian is a dragon aspect, and the dragon aspects' destiny was to defeat Deathwing...


    Am I missing something here?

  13. #33
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    TLDR: Malygos was completely in his right mind and acting as the Aspect of Magic during WotLK, policing its use and judging the mortal races too reckless to use it anymore. Like a kid who won't stop putting the end of sticks into a campfire and then waving it all around in the woods being told they can't put sticks into the fire anymore, because they can't be trusted to act responsibly with it.
    Who then decided to hoard all the magic. Even a quest talks about what Malygos was doing with the Nexus in a way that would create another Outland. Not to mention Malygos decided to force a red dragon to be his new consort after we kill the other one. Weather Malygos liked it or not Magic is needed on Azeroth to defend against internal and external threats.


    Actually, Malygos was mad when Deathwing murdered his flight, and remained in a lethargic depressed state for 10,000 years. He wasn't himself for a long time, until the Shadow Wing manga spinoff from the Sunwell Trilogy manga, where nether drakes from Outland travel to the Nexus because they think it's their birthright, and they attack. Malygos comes out, being like "who the heck do you think you are" and they say something along the line of "we are mana" or Malygos sensed how they were both physical and incorporeal at the same time, composed of energy, and he said something like "yes, you are mana..." and he absorbed them, killing them, but it restored his sanity. Then he saw what mortal use of magic had done to the world.
    Yes, he did go mad because of what Deathwing did to his flight. You would think by your logic he would absolutely hate the Black Dragonflight and try and launch an all out war against them.


    1. The Night Elf Empire's reckless use of the Well of Eternity attracted the Burning Legion, and caused the Sundering, as well as the murder of so many of Malygos' children and mates.
    Which was caused by the Highborne and not all Night Elves were even doing such a thing. Not even all mortals were even involved in such a thing. It doesn't justify Malygos's actions like at all. Reacting extremely to an extreme situation does not work and it never will.


    2. The human magi of Dalaran gave no heed to the lessons of the High Elves, and didn't follow their example to build runestones to mask their use of magic from the Legion. This attracted the Legion again. Before the human's use of magic, the Burning Legion thought that Azeroth had been destroyed by the Sundering and never would have given it a second thought. But they knew it was there again, and came to take it over. Rather than do what the High Elves did, they instead decided they knew better, and made a bandaid solution with the Tirisgarde and a "spearhead," a concept which would later be rehashed as the Council of Tirisfal and the Guardian. This did nothing to keep the Legion from coming, only to help kill them when they came.
    Which is no longer true. The Legion keeps coming back to Azeroth not just because of the power, it's because of the titan soul within the planet. The Council of Tirisfal was pretty much fine until Medivh's mother Aegwynn decided to take things into her own hands and take all of the Guardian's power.

    This resulted in the Old Horde's invasion when Medivh, corrupted by Sargeras because Aegwynn was just as arrogant and pompous as the founders of the Tirisgarde (who thought they knew better than the High Elves and that the Legion wasn't as big a deal as their history books claimed), summoned the Horde and set in motion a lot of calamitous events like the Lich King, the Scourge, the Legion's second invasion during the Third War which decimated entire continents (including the Dragonblight and Dragonshrines, sacred to the flights), etc, etc.
    Because of Sargeras's plan and fooling Aegwynn and while it is her fault. Nobody would really know so it cannot blame all of mortal kind on what lead to the Old Horde invasion leading up to the first war. There isn't any justification for it.

    Just a lot of crazy events that did a lot of damage to Azeroth and its people, all because of the rampant, reckless, unrestrained use of arcane magic. Malygos was appointed as the guardian of arcane magic on Azeroth, tasked with protecting and policing its use. It was his call to make, and he decided that the mortal races couldn't be trusted with magic, and so he began to take it from them by sucking all the ley lines of Azeroth to the Blue Dragon's home in the Nexus.
    Not nearly as reckless as you make it out to be, same with Malygos. He decided to hoard all the magic which is kinda selfish if you ask me. Even more the Chronicle retcon Norgannon did make a point to not hoard magic as he was doing in Wrath with his base The Nexus. Taking all magic away from mortals because of specific individuals who *spoiled the bunch*. That's unfair and it's just as unfair as blaming Arthas on all of the Alliance for not trying to rein him in.

    So, once again, Dalaran was in over its head by tackling both the Scourge and the Blue Dragonflight, so they asked the Blood Elves for help as always, of course not apologizing for their cowardly betrayal of Kael'thas during the Third War, without which, Kael'thas would never have gone down the path he did, but Lor'themar grudgingly let Aethas and his human-loving sycophantic followers go to Dalaran and form the Sunreavers.
    Which happened a long time ago and when a threat that involves taking away Magic, well it's reasonable to ask the Blood Elves since they still love it as much as the humans if not more. Yeah what happened to Kael'thas was bad but being stubborn and not helping the Kirin Tor would only screw their own people over.


    Malygos wasn't going to let the mortals (but mostly Dalaran) continue using magic because in his eyes, it was only a matter of time before they did another stupid mistake that resulted in a catastrophic event for Azeroth. But the mortal races wouldn't give up the arcane, so Malygos had to forcibly stop them, meaning he had to go to war with them.
    Because Malygos had no right to take it away from mortals and hoard it like a selfish asshole as I already explained. If anything Magic helps the mortal races be self reliant instead of just having the Dragons and Keepers protect Azeroth.

    Now, Alexstrasza is the guardian of life on Azeroth, and because Malygos' job meant he had to kill the people committing the crime because they refused to stop committing the crime, Alexstrasza decided she had to go to war with Malygos.


    So Alexstrasza, guardian of life, rather than supporting her close friend the Guardian of Magic, who is the final authority on its use on Azeroth, by helping him convince the mortal races to give up magic, she decides she knows better and opposes him.
    Because Malygos was being stupid and shortsighted thinking to blame all of mortal kind for some reckless acts of a few. It's stupid.

    It's like a guy murders someone, is running from the police, with no remorse for his actions, only afraid of being punished, and his family who loves him helps him hide and avoid the police. Rather than facing the proper repercussions for his actions, the mercy of loved ones robs the public of justice.
    Analogy doesn't work since morality in the Warcraft universe is different then in the modern real world so stop.


    She interferes with Malygos' edict that they must give up magic or die, but does not interfere when the mortal races are ruthlessly killing each other. Kind of wierd, but whatever.
    It's not weird, it's how you see things that is weird acting like poor old Malygos was only trying to do what's right.


    Really though Malygos in the end became something he and his fellow dragons fought against.
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  14. #34
    The Dragon Aspects were empowered by the Pantheon to prevent the Hour of Twilight.

    This is why Alexstrasza says the Aspects have fulfilled their great purpose and their power is expended, since they literally fulfilled the purpose they were empowered to stop.

    The Old Gods actually knew this, which is part of the genius of their plot to corrupt Neltharion to stop the Aspects way, way before the Hour ever came.

  15. #35
    They didn't have to give up their powers to stop Malygos. They did have to give them up to stop an Old God ressurected Deathwing.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Arewn View Post
    So the dragon aspects' destiny was to defeat Deathwing, and Deathwing is Neltharian the earth warder, and Neltharian is a dragon aspect, and the dragon aspects' destiny was to defeat Deathwing, and Deathwing is Neltharian the earth warder, and Neltharian is a dragon aspect, and the dragon aspects' destiny was to defeat Deathwing, and Deathwing is Neltharian the earth warder, and Neltharian is a dragon aspect, and the dragon aspects' destiny was to defeat Deathwing...


    Am I missing something here?
    "Here, you'll be the Dragon Aspects, destined to defeat Deathwing...and do a few other things along the way, I guess. Like the War of the Ancients, War of Shifting Sands, War of the Satyr, you know, little things like that."

  17. #37
    Their purpose was to stop Deathwings corruption and the old gods bringing about the End Times. Thats why the Titans empowered them, their main purpose was over so they didnt need that massive power anymore.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Suffragium View Post
    Why is this? Why did they have to sacrifice their powers to defeat Deathwing, wasn't the Dragon Soul enough? Why was this not necessary for Malygos?
    The aspects all channeled their power into the Dragon Soul in order for it to be potent enough to defeat Deathwing.
    Malygos was powerful but only as much as an ordinary aspect dragon, while Deathwing was more powerful than all of the aspects combined because of his old god affinities.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Arewn View Post
    So the dragon aspects' destiny was to defeat Deathwing, and Deathwing is Neltharian the earth warder, and Neltharian is a dragon aspect, and the dragon aspects' destiny was to defeat Deathwing, and Deathwing is Neltharian the earth warder, and Neltharian is a dragon aspect, and the dragon aspects' destiny was to defeat Deathwing, and Deathwing is Neltharian the earth warder, and Neltharian is a dragon aspect, and the dragon aspects' destiny was to defeat Deathwing...


    Am I missing something here?
    Yeah, they didn't know that their destiny was to defeat Deathwing. Their Destiny was to be a fail safe plan against the Old Gods. Aman'thul didn't have omniscience and couldn't see into the future in this case, and as such, he couldn't see that the Old Gods would corrupt the very device the Titans "created" to lock them away.

    Blizzard already talked about this in a "Ask a Dev" thingy.
    Suddenly, one day, 99.7% of the Lich King's death knights broke free.
    Clearly, the lich king was keylogged

  20. #40
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    I can maybe get the Aspects losing their uber Titan powers, but why the hell are all the Dragonflights weakened as well? And why can't they reproduce anymore? No, seriously, WTF? Why would the Titan Watchers connect the Aspect buff to their ability to continue their species? I hate it. I really, really hate it, especially since Blizzard probably won't have the five flights try to crossbreed with Storm Drakes or Netherwing.

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